BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 98

[Micromind]

They should stay away from Doomsday for this movie.. the last movie was heavily criticized for having relentless action and thin plot, this time a better story is needed and over the top villain that is unstoppable (like Hulk) not really a great idea.

But, if BvS movie is looking to score even lower RT score the MOS, then..... I will say why not ?

 

[matt47]

May sound like a stupid question but..what does a "thin plot" mean exactly?

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I think it's a reference as to why the film never studied character motivation in regards to either Zod or Superman.

Superman essentially begins fully formed, right from a teenager he's seen saving people. It's not really an explanation as to why Superman is who he is, but rather more a run through of events that list who he is.

But then again, that's not really a plot criticism.

 

[dhandler01]

Indeed.

At most, this film probably wouldn't be more than 2 Hours and 25 Minutes. During that time, they have to catch audiences up with what's been going on for Superman and company since the conclusion of "MOS", while dealing with the fallout from Zod's invasion, introducing Bruce Wayne/Batman and his world, along with bringing in the likes of Lex Luthor, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Victor Stone in some form of fashion.

We also have to deal with the inevitable confrontation that Superman and Batman will have with each other before they eventually put aside their differences and work together to take down a bigger threat, thus the beginnings of the Justice League.

To cram the "Death" story line into all of this would be a HUGE disservice to it.

One of the reasons why that story worked so well was because Superman had not only been around for a long time within the DC Universe, but because of the long standing relationships he had with everyone that was shown to be affected by his sudden death.

Superman's death will mean a hell of a lot more if he's been friends with Batman and company for years, while having been a part of the Justice League already and being hailed as a hero by mostly everyone on Earth.

Killing him with the excuse of saying that people who once hated him will now realize on how important he was is a weak one in my honest opinion.

Honestly, I would rather wait and allow the DC Universe to get fully formed first before I play out a major story line like that. Other wise you end up not only wasting that story line but potentially harming the much needed development that the DCCU needs right now.

Heck, one of the reasons why I feel "Days of Future Past" had worked so well is because we had spent several films getting to know the X-Men and had a least one film devoted into showing the younger cast/generation as well.

I really doubt that people would have been "as" invested in the final product if DOFP was the first time we were seeing James playing young Charles or Michael playing Magneto for the first time.

We got to know the casts of both eras so well that it made the story feel that much more important and invested in.

This is everything I wanted to say but didnt including the DOFP point. Superman's death is not something you waste, it is a seminal moment. That is what you do in later movies when it will be a punch in the gut to audiences. You need to have seen Superman already beat the best multiple times so that when he dies you really know how powerful both were.

Some of the best parts of DOS were the reactions after Funeral For a Friend. World Without a Superman is a great read. You lose all of that if you waste the death here. The haters in the movie and out of the movie will not all f a sudden love him cause he died. And shoehorning some dumb idea of forming the Justice League in his honor makes it worse. Now Superman is basically Agent Coulson...died to get the real heroes to work together. Worst...idea...EVER!

And while Doomsday is rather lame, the best part was originally he had no origin. He landed on Earth and destroyed everything in sight. He destroyed the JLI in seconds and when he hits Metropolis superman fights him and violence ensues. It wasnt until later (in the comics, I never read the book version) that the lab experiment origin came into play which was cool but made him less scary in some ways.

Use Metallo, who then gives you a thread into Cyborg in Justice League. Plus Lex "trying to help the wounded" is a great way to get the public on his side. Hell the accumulation of Tech at Star Labs and the strange military testing would be a great thing for a few intrepid reporters to look into not to mention a detective.

 

[AnneFan]

May sound like a stupid question but..what does a "thin plot" mean exactly?

It's weight conscious and thus makes healthy options. Hits the gym regularly and takes a liking to protein shakes.

 

[matt47]

It's weight conscious and thus makes healthy options. Hits the gym regularly and takes a liking to protein shakes.

hahahaha

 

[matt47]

twas just watching some old interviews for MoS (as you do as midnight on a Wednesday) and stumbled across something that may have some use.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQM5K0Zqi5A
at around 5:00 mark she interviews Lawrence about changing the DP from print to digital and he basically says that's what they're gonna focus on in the next movie, now he probably was just coming up with stuff on his own but he seemed pretty certain that's where it would go. Anyway, watch it and tell me if I'm going crazy :P

 

[Kane52630]

Off topic but this year's Hype Deathmatch is in full swing, come by and vote!

Match 1: Spider-Aziz vs JJJ's Ulcer

Match 2: NewYorkSpider vs ComicChick

Match 3: The Original Bamfer vs Lord Valumart

 

[Tv's Phil]

I wonder if Lois' connection to Superman will cause her to come under any kind of threat by, like, the same type of anti-Superman people who are protesting or at least those effected by the fight.
I can't remember exactly how well-known her affiliation with him was.
But someone might want to hurt her if they think it'll hurt him. You know, that classic superhero trope.

 

[Gu3ree]

Indeed.

At most, this film probably wouldn't be more than 2 Hours and 25 Minutes. During that time, they have to catch audiences up with what's been going on for Superman and company since the conclusion of "MOS", while dealing with the fallout from Zod's invasion, introducing Bruce Wayne/Batman and his world, along with bringing in the likes of Lex Luthor, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Victor Stone in some form of fashion.

We also have to deal with the inevitable confrontation that Superman and Batman will have with each other before they eventually put aside their differences and work together to take down a bigger threat, thus the beginnings of the Justice League.

To cram the "Death" story line into all of this would be a HUGE disservice to it.

One of the reasons why that story worked so well was because Superman had not only been around for a long time within the DC Universe, but because of the long standing relationships he had with everyone that was shown to be affected by his sudden death.

Superman's death will mean a hell of a lot more if he's been friends with Batman and company for years, while having been a part of the Justice League already and being hailed as a hero by mostly everyone on Earth.

Killing him with the excuse of saying that people who once hated him will now realize on how important he was is a weak one in my honest opinion.

Honestly, I would rather wait and allow the DC Universe to get fully formed first before I play out a major story line like that. Other wise you end up not only wasting that story line but potentially harming the much needed development that the DCCU needs right now.

Heck, one of the reasons why I feel "Days of Future Past" had worked so well is because we had spent several films getting to know the X-Men and had a least one film devoted into showing the younger cast/generation as well.

I really doubt that people would have been "as" invested in the final product if DOFP was the first time we were seeing James playing young Charles or Michael playing Magneto for the first time.

We got to know the casts of both eras so well that it made the story feel that much more important and invested in.

Agreed. I mean ideally after this film, Superman has another standalone, then the death of Superman arc, from the Doomsday battle might work. It took three movies to get the sort-of death of Batman from battling Bane to work in Dark Knight Rises. TDK did so much and really established the legacy of Batman in just one movie. Batman Begins was an origin film, so you didn't have Batman appear until an hour in BB. TDK had Batman featured from start to finish. TDKR however, we knew had just about 30 minutes total screen time of Batman in the 2 hour and 45 minute film. Three films, and the Bane arc worked. Audiences were impacted enough to see Batman get beaten and to relate to the citizens of Gotham who felt shocked and weighed in terror once they realized they had no one who could save them.

I'm so worried either this Doomsday arc or an early death of Superman arc will be the concluscion or epilogue to DOJ. Please God, don't let it be. It's not necessary.

 

[roach]

The origin of the BvS/Star Wars back and forth

Ben Affleck:“I think it was started because JJ [Abrams] and Colin Anderson, who is a great [camera] operator who always works on my movies, and JJ is always trying to steal, and I’m trying to steal back, sent me a picture of the two of them wearing cheap Batman masks. I showed it to Zack [Snyder], and said ‘this is BS, we have to do something'. I think it’s cool. The sort of meta-awareness of these movies, and the two directors going back and forth… I like it, it’s cool."

 

[Caped Crusader]

The origin of the BvS/Star Wars back and forth

Ben Affleck:“I think it was started because JJ [Abrams] and Colin Anderson, who is a great [camera] operator who always works on my movies, and JJ is always trying to steal, and I’m trying to steal back, sent me a picture of the two of them wearing cheap Batman masks. I showed it to Zack [Snyder], and said ‘this is BS, we have to do something'. I think it’s cool. The sort of meta-awareness of these movies, and the two directors going back and forth… I like it, it’s cool."

haha that's good stuff

 

[TheNextNolan22]

 

[TheNextNolan22]

 

[TheNextNolan22]

 

[TheNextNolan22]

 

[TheNextNolan22]

 

[matt47]

Gah I love those photos

 

[dhandler01]

The origin of the BvS/Star Wars back and forth

Ben Affleck:“I think it was started because JJ [Abrams] and Colin Anderson, who is a great [camera] operator who always works on my movies, and JJ is always trying to steal, and I’m trying to steal back, sent me a picture of the two of them wearing cheap Batman masks. I showed it to Zack [Snyder], and said ‘this is BS, we have to do something'. I think it’s cool. The sort of meta-awareness of these movies, and the two directors going back and forth… I like it, it’s cool."

He better be quiet or the WB Ninjas will silence him for having too much fun!!

 

[Guts]

Trailer for Justice League: Throne of Atlantis.

[YT]EAdYORXbyOg[/YT]

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Trailer for Justice League: Throne of Atlantis.

[YT]EAdYORXbyOg[/YT]

Shazam: "Online they're calling him Aquaman."

Aquaman: "Hate that."

Hal: "Aquaman it is."

 

[Broseph44]

May sound like a stupid question but..what does a "thin plot" mean exactly?

It's just some peoples opinion that the plot was thin. So don't worry about it if you had no problem with the plot, that's all that matters.

 

[BatFan1979]

Trailer for Justice League: Throne of Atlantis.

[YT]EAdYORXbyOg[/YT]

Looks pretty darn good! I bet that will bring more people over into the "Aquaman is actually cool and bada$$" camp!

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Probably not. Most people who see that will already know about Aquaman.

 

[RadioSha]

Has anyone seen the Gone Girl clip from Jimmy Fallon when Tyler Perry was on?

Ben had one small line but to me it sounded like the best Batman voice.