All Things Wonder Woman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - Part 18

[kguillou]

I know Terri Scwartz is a film critic, she works for IGN amd she haaated Suicide Squad. Her initial impressions seem to be good though. All these impressions seem to be good from reading between the lines, guys. We are we upset again?

 

[moviefreak]

heh...
in reply to Chris from Batman-News.com‏ @BatmanNewsCom tweet

#WonderWoman has more action than #BatmanvSuperman

Hope you don't mind me quoting you ISS:

I'm happy you said this because among other issues I had, I thought that film lacked action scenes.

 

[dhandler01]

Disney is well integrated and tightly run company, just look at Marvel's Agents of Shield series, ABC network is still running it despite not so good ratings, whereas in case of WB, HBO refuses to have any DC related shows, had HBO been running any DC series that had ratings similar to AoS, it would have canceled it.

WB has many companies under it abut they are loosely run, that is, they don't support each other's business. Disney is simply more professional company.

Sorry but that just isnt true. Why do you think the CW shows are never in danger of cancellation or why Supergirl moved there? WB businesses are just as loyal as Disney businesses. HBO has never said they wont do a DC show (they are often rumored for the Watchmen series) there just hasnt been anything developed for them. And the ratings on HBO dont need to be spectacular.

AOS sticks around because Disney completely owns the show. It isnt loyalty it is straight up dollars and cents.

 

[Claude_Speed]

WB has finally learned...

or, they know they have a good movie on their hands this time.

Critics have to be pampered; they have to be treated as royalty, they need to be given privileges. Things like early screenings, throwing a party for them, having the filmmakers interacting with them, etc. are good ways to do it. That's PR and it's very important.

Why? because they undoubtly impact a movie in a positive or negative way. You can hate them and discredit them all you want but it is undeniable that a critically acclaimed movie will draw people's attention, whereas a panned movie will make people lose interest. As a business, you want people to be interested in your product.

If I remember correctly, they hid BvS from critics till the very last moment and that was a mistake. Sure, BvS was never going to be critically acclaimed, but giving critics some privileges could have at least mitigated some of the backlash. They were embargoed anyway so I don't think they would have hurt the movie's OW. At the end of the day, they're humans and can act based on their feelings and emotions.

I believe Disney-Marvel does it all the time, but it's not hard to tell they are a better run company.

 

[Wonder89]

 

[Rorschach2012]

Finally! It sucks that we can't have blind faith in the DCEU after BVS and SS, hopefully WW and JL will bring the goodwill back to the DCEU

I'm also hoping that Ares and Steppenwolf won't be pereceived as too similar to the audiences. I can clearly see the differences but it may be more difficult for the general audience. I could be wrong though, it's all in the portrayal

 

[Claude_Speed]

You would think WB would be run more smoothly given how long they've been around!

I guess the advantage is they have a "director-friendly" reputation than say the Disney films.

The director approach is useless if you don't hire great directors.

Look at Marvel. They get directors with terrible track records all the time. Even the Russos had a bad track record before joining Marvel. The difference? They have Keving Feige watching over them. WB on the other hand has hired directors with OK to mediocre track records and then they left them on their own. Geniuses.

The way to do it is pretty simple (and it's very telling that a company as big as WB hasn't figured this out): If you want a director oriented universe then hire the best directors avaible. If you want to hire directors with bad track records then have someone capable watching over them. Otherwise the movies will only be as good as the directors are.

It looks like WW might be the first well received DCEU movie and this shouldn't be surprising since Patty Jenkins seems to be a capable director. She has a good understanding of character development which -you know who- simply doesn't have.

 

[Wanda Detroit]

The Iron Man trilogy basically had the same villain in all three, a man obsessed with Tony because of some perceived slight and wants take over the world by taking him down.

I wouldn't worry about what audiences think of similar villains.

 

[metaphysician]

The setting of a movie does not define it's tone. Not all war movies or movies depicting armed combat are dark. In fact there are dark movies without much violence.

Yes it's set during a war but:

Will the movie have dark filters or will it have a standard color?
Will they show blood and gore or will they just show soldiers falling down like in many other war films?
Will Wonder Woman kill, snap necks, etc. or will she just knock enemies down?
Will the movie feel joyless and depressing or will it feel inspiring?
Will the ending be dramatic or will it be a happy ending?

These are all options filmmakers have and both are equally valid, regardless of the setting. It all depends on what kind of movie they want to make.

Honestly, my main worry on the "dark" end is not that its dark. Its WWI, it *should* be dark. Its that they manage to, under the rubric of "dark", accidentally/deliberately portray the Germans using WWII/Nazi imagery and themes. Which crosses over with the "killing" issue, in that similarly, Diana killing in battle isn't a problem; its if the movie portrays it in the "righteous Nazi slayer" manner, when facing foes who aren't Nazis.

That said, the rumors about Ares do give me some greater confidence on that end.

 

[omermer]

I wonder if the war starts because of Ares...
I hope not. I prefer the idea that mankind brought the war upon itself and Ares just nudged it a long.

 

[Claude_Speed]

Honestly, my main worry on the "dark" end is not that its dark. Its WWI, it *should* be dark. Its that they manage to, under the rubric of "dark", accidentally/deliberately portray the Germans using WWII/Nazi imagery and themes. Which crosses over with the "killing" issue, in that similarly, Diana killing in battle isn't a problem; its if the movie portrays it in the "righteous Nazi slayer" manner, when facing foes who aren't Nazis.

That said, the rumors about Ares do give me some greater confidence on that end.

I simply don't agree with that statement.

Nothing SHOULD be dark or light. That's up to the filmmakers. Pretty much any setting can be portrayed in a dark or light tone. There are war dramas, war action films, war comedies, etc. so that proves the setting doesn't force the tone.

WW being an action/adventure/fantasy film has a wide array of tones to choose from. It doesn't need to be dark. Captain America: The First Avenger was set during WW2 and it wasn't really dark.

 

[Bagide]

That dark they speak should be in terms of WW stretching that PG-13 rating. WWI horrors and fights should be shown as gruesome as they can.

 

[Bagide]

I wonder if the war starts because of Ares...
I hope not. I prefer the idea that mankind brought the war upon itself and Ares just nudged it a long.

That would be neat.

 

[kguillou]

I simply don't agree with that statement.

Nothing SHOULD be dark or light. That's up to the filmmakers. Pretty much any setting can be portrayed in a dark or light tone. There are war dramas, war action films, war comedies, etc. so that proves the setting doesn't force the tone.

WW being an action/adventure/fantasy film has a wide array of tones to choose from. It doesn't need to be dark. Captain America: The First Avenger was set during WW2 and it wasn't really dark.

That was one of the big criticisms of First Avenger though, people thought Marvel chickened out and skirted around on the "war" aspect of WWII especially since the character's roots are deeply entrenched during that war. I like that this movie seems to be embracing it and showing what its like to have a superhero, or superheroine rather, in the midst of the Great War and see how that changes the world.

 

[Adder]

So they put an embargo on tweets.....

 

[Claude_Speed]

That was one of the big criticisms of First Avenger though, people thought Marvel chickened out and skirted around on the "war" aspect of WWII especially since the character's roots are deeply entrenched during that war. I like that this movie seems to be embracing it and showing what its like to have a superhero, or superheroine rather, in the midst of the Great War and see how that changes the world.

Criticized by whom? rival fanboys? Doubt many reputable critics criticized the movie for that.

At the end of the day it's an action/adventure/fantasy movie and should be judged as such. It's not a drama or a documental.

 

[Wanda Detroit]

A world war isn't dark? You learn something new every day.

If the movie is about the war and it is serious about the war and the death and destruction involved it is going to be dark. This movie isn't a war comedy. It has comedic moments, romance, and hero's journey, but the part about the war is going to be dark because that is what it is.

 

[Micromind]

Criticized by whom? rival fanboys? Doubt many reputable critics criticized the movie for that.

At the end of the day it's an action/adventure/fantasy movie and should be judged as such. It's not a drama or a documental.

Why must filmmakers worry about how will critics receive the movie ? Critics are not some approval committee to decide what constitutes as an art which is a prerogative of directors.

The approach taken by Marvel is not some gold standard, there's enough room for a different approach, even if the subject we are dealing with is fictional.

 

[Panacea]

That was one of the big criticisms of First Avenger though, people thought Marvel chickened out and skirted around on the "war" aspect of WWII especially since the character's roots are deeply entrenched during that war. I like that this movie seems to be embracing it and showing what its like to have a superhero, or superheroine rather, in the midst of the Great War and see how that changes the world.

The problem is that it doesn't make much sense for an impartial hero to be fighting normal German troops in the trenches. The movie will really need to justify that.

 

[Underblue]

So they put an embargo on tweets.....

Zootopia, Cloverfield Lane, Arrival etc.


All had social embargoes.

Don't start ****.

 

[omermer]

I think that when you skirt around the atrocities of war, it's consequences, the toll it takes you run the risk of losing the gravitas of the moment. Without all of it the stakes just don't feel real enough to me. Painting a war in a lighter side by ignoring this is an insult both to the real life event you are emulating and to the motivation the main protagonist has.

In civil war I found the whole airport battle to be completely ridiculous. While amazing to look at there I felt it was pointless and could be avoided easily. I know I'm in the minority on this but that's how I think.

 

[Wanda Detroit]

Pretty sure there is a such thing as dark comedies too. Everything doesn't have to be just black and white, dark or light there is also gray(many shades).

The problem is that it doesn't make much sense for an impartial hero to be fighting normal German troops in the trenches. The movie will really need to justify that.

If they are on the side of gasing innocents then a hero would. Also, she's impartial?

 

[Micromind]

Honestly, my main worry on the "dark" end is not that its dark. Its WWI, it *should* be dark. Its that they manage to, under the rubric of "dark", accidentally/deliberately portray the Germans using WWII/Nazi imagery and themes. Which crosses over with the "killing" issue, in that similarly, Diana killing in battle isn't a problem; its if the movie portrays it in the "righteous Nazi slayer" manner, when facing foes who aren't Nazis.

That said, the rumors about Ares do give me some greater confidence on that end.

The problem is that it doesn't make much sense for an impartial hero to be fighting normal German troops in the trenches. The movie will really need to justify that.

You are making assumptions here, there's no indication that Diana is taking part in War just to fight 'Germans'.

I'm sure she wants to end the war, and that she is unbiased. Why don't wait till you see the movie before jumping to false conclusions ?

 

[MrGamer2558]

The problem is that it doesn't make much sense for an impartial hero to be fighting normal German troops in the trenches. The movie will really need to justify that.

Explain how she's impartial.

 

[brandeezy89]

So they put an embargo on tweets.....

And?

You do know that after most press screenings, the press can't even tweet about what movie they saw? Movies with no tweet embargoes usually have premieres within the next couple days ex. GOTG2 and Alien Covenant recently