The Dark Knight Rises Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman IX

[batmanlover]

What is a penguin cowl? Are you familiar with these characters at all? Or are you just trolling the board?

No, I am not trolling and, yes, I more than familiar with all Batman characters. I'm just trying to make a point in saying that a cowl does not define a character…I thought that was pretty clear.

 

[Wolverine1988]

If they can make Batman , they can make Catwoman. It's simple as that and thats what it comes down to, Catwoman costume is actually more plausable than a Batman costume, seeing is how Batman has a full body armor suit, while Catwoman could just be wearing leather tight suit.

The look she has in Arkahm City would be perfect for the Nolan films, they should have gone with that.


Catwoman not looking like a cat would be like Joker not having clown make up, Two Face not have half his face burned, or Scarecrow not having his burlap mask,


If her suit is the same throughout, than i don't care how good of a performance it is, i will still not fully embrace it.

 

[batmanlover]

If they can make Batman , they can make Catwoman. It's simple as that and thats what it comes down to, Catwoman costume is actually more plausable than a Batman costume, seeing is how Batman has a full body armor suit, while Catwoman could just be wearing leather tight suit.

The look she has in Arkahm City would be perfect for the Nolan films, they should have gone with that.


Catwoman not looking like a cat would be like Joker not having clown make up, Two Face not have half his face burned, or Scarecrow not having his burlap mask,


If her suit is the same throughout, than i don't care how good of a performance it is, i will still not fully embrace it.

So putting two black triangles on top of her head will transform her into Catwoman? She looks like Catwoman to me...

 

[Marx]

No, I am not trolling and, yes, I more than familiar with all Batman characters. I'm just trying to make a point in saying that a cowl does not define a character…I thought that was pretty clear.

...then is it safe to say you'd be OK with Batman not wearing his cowl? (Since you believe a cowl doesn't define a character)

 

[Wolverine1988]

The double standard is frustrating to say the least. I guess it exists because this movie is being made right now and Burton's already come and gone, so his movies have the nostalgia factor. Maybe 5-10 years from now people will finally look at these movies on their own terms as they'll have a new director to crucify for not giving Poison Ivy a leotard made out of leaves. Mark my words, there's going to be a ton of backpedaling when the first trailer comes out, just as surely as there was backpedaling about Heath Ledger's Joker.

I honestly don't remember Ledger getting that much backlash, it was definetley out of left field casting and when the first picture came out there was alot of detractors because of the look, but let's not forgot before TDK Ledger was a very respected and accomplished actor, Hathaway is very well known but she isn't as accomplished as Ledger was before he got cast.

 

[dc587]

You don't think a character named Catwoman is defined by a cat cowl?

No. She is defined by her cat-like behavior, demeanor (moral ambiguity/unpredictability/stubbornness/indifference) and skills (athleticism/stealth), the fact that she is an (in)famous cat-burglar, and her love for cats.

Two primary functions of the bat-suit are:
- Hide Batman's identity.
- Use the bat's likeness to scare criminals.

Catwoman's suit shares only the that first function. She doesn't dress up like a cat to scare people -- the only reason she incorporated cat-like features into her outfit is because she likes cats. Now, if you guys' primary complaint was that the outfit in the picture doesn't do a good enough job at hiding her identity then I guess I could understand that, even though that aspect doesn't really bother me either, but to say that the lack of cat ears means she's "not catwoman" to you before you have seen ANY finalized footage of her is just mind-blowing to me. No offense, but I really don't understand how people can be so incredibly stubborn and narrow-minded as to say something so definitive about a character they have only seen one official picture of. And a picture of which the context is completely unknown to them, at that.

 

[Bat-Mite]

...then is it safe to say you'd be OK with Batman not wearing his cowl? (Since you believe a cowl doesn't define a character)

Let's not forget that these are two completely different characters. We're not talking about Batman and Batgirl here, who are very similar. Catwoman is a thief, has been arrested, had her identity revealed, etc. People know who she is. It's not as big of a deal to her if people see her face. Batman still has an identity to hide.

 

[thedarks0ldier]

I honestly don't remember Ledger getting that much backlash, it was definetley out of left field casting and when the first picture came out there was alot of detractors because of the look, but let's not forgot before TDK Ledger was a very respected and accomplished actor, Hathaway is very well known but she isn't as accomplished as Ledger was before he got cast.

I remember the backlash. It all started the whole "Broke Bat Mountain" as soon as he was casted, followed by the scarred smile and eventually the perma-white-supremacist movement.

 

[Marx]

Let's not forget that these are two completely different characters. We're not talking about Batman and Batgirl here, who are very similar. Catwoman is a thief, has been arrested, had her identity revealed, etc. People know who she is. It's not as big of a deal to her if people see her face. Batman still has an identity to hide.

This notion that cowls do not define characters is absolutely ridiculous though BM. I mean, why not have Batman just run around in his ski-mask from Batman Begins since some here believe that cowls don't matter to a character. He'd still be hiding his face...

 

[TheVerbos]

I'm just going to be real. I care less because I frankly care less about Catwoman.

Guys, I know ("...but what about Batman huh huh?!") but it's not as if she has no Catwoman features (?).

She's got the skintight, all black leather.

To say it matters as much as Batman's appereance...

logically it might be the same (and that's a generous might).

But I frankly care a LOT less.

It's a fanboy thing. For instance, I was displeased by

(1) Hawkeye's Avengers suit (WTF, no purple? He looked so distinctive!!)

(2) No wings on Cap helmet (Pshh--find a way to adapt it!)

(3) Robin's AC suit (Wow. He didn't have to look like that, he was fine already. No he did NOT need to be 'darkened up'.)

So, if you're displeased by this--I get it.

It's all about preference and fan interest.

Let us be civil men--and women!!

t:

 

[dc587]

This notion that cowls do not define characters is absolutely ridiculous though BM. I mean, why not have Batman just run around in his ski-mask from Batman Begins since some here believe that cowls don't matter to a character. He'd still be hiding his face...

Because Batman uses the bat's likeness to put fear into the hearts of cowardly criminals -- the bat aspect of his suit serves a huge purpose in that way, and it is one of the character's major themes.

Now, why does Catwoman's suit have cat features? Basically because she likes cats... And that is a MAJOR difference in the functionality of both characters' outfits -- if you were to take the bat aspect away from Batman's suit you'd take away a major part of his M.O. But without cat ears there is no reason for Catwoman to not still have cat-like skills, cat-like behavior, and a cat-like reputation.

 

[batmanlover]

...then is it safe to say you'd be OK with Batman not wearing his cowl? (Since you believe a cowl doesn't define a character)

My point is that a cowl does not define a character. The character's background, story, actions, motivations, interaction with other characters, and physicality are many of the things that define a character. You can have Catwoman if she doesn't have two triangles and some extra fabric on her head.

Batman, on the other hand, wears a cowl because he WANTS to look like a bat for a very important reason. Batman Begins did a great job at explaining why Bruce HAS to be the Bat. Not only does he become his fear and strike fear into his enemies' hearts, but he wants to become a symbol, something more than a man…a legend…for the sake of giving Gotham hope that it can be saved. It is his story, his actions, his legend, that defines him. His cowl represents all that he is. So, no, I wouldn't be okay with Batman without a cowl, but not for the reasoning that it is his cowl that defines him.

Catwoman's cowl does not serve the same purpose.

She does not have have the same urgent need to look like an actual feline with cat ears. She is not defined by her mask (and we have seen Catwoman without a mask in the comics many times). Her name, Catwoman, will serve a purpose in the film, but we just don't know what that is yet.

 

[Smegger56]

This notion that cowls do not define characters is absolutely ridiculous though BM. I mean, why not have Batman just run around in his ski-mask from Batman Begins since some here believe that cowls don't matter to a character. He'd still be hiding his face...

Whilst it would be great to see catwoman have the cowl, for me, it's not as vital as it is to see batmans.

And Batman Begins gave us a GREAT backstory into why he wears a 'bat' costume. The guy FEARED bats and, as he said, he wants his enemies to share his dread. They're going to get a GIANT man bat coming there way.

This is why I think the 'well batman doesn't need a cowl then' argument invalid. But that's me .

 

[Bat-Mite]

I honestly don't remember Ledger getting that much backlash, it was definetley out of left field casting and when the first picture came out there was alot of detractors because of the look, but let's not forgot before TDK Ledger was a very respected and accomplished actor, Hathaway is very well known but she isn't as accomplished as Ledger was before he got cast.

I don't know if the posts are still available, but if you find the thread with the first picture of him, you'll definitely see the backlash... there were Brokebat Mountain comments, statements that a gay cowboy couldn't be the Joker, and other such comments about his sexuality even though he wasn't gay. There were also many doubts about his capabilities as an actor. He was not nearly as acclaimed as you make him out to be... he had one movie under his belt that got him a lot of buzz... Brokeback Mountain. A lot of the people here hadn't even seen it for obvious reasons, and even some of the ones who had seen it thought it might have been a fluke and that Nolan jumped the gun on casting him in the part. Other than BM, a lot of people remembered him for movies like A Knight's Tale, which, let's face it, weren't all that great.

 

[helloiamben]

Don't know about Brokeback Mountain but I always thought he was great in the Patriot.

 

[Bat-Mite]

This notion that cowls do not define characters is absolutely ridiculous though BM. I mean, why not have Batman just run around in his ski-mask from Batman Begins since some here believe that cowls don't matter to a character. He'd still be hiding his face...

Like others have pointed out, his need to dress like a bat is explained in that movie. We don't know the story behind this Selina yet... as a matter of fact, we know nothing about her other than that she rides the batpod at some point. We don't even know for a fact that she's stealing it, that's just what we've been told, even though it's a logical conclusion based on the character. We don't know if this is her first time as Catwoman (or pre-Catwoman), if Talia snatched her mask from her in a fight, etc. There's lots of possible explanations for what we see or don't see there. I think a better comparison for Selina might be Wolverine. The character has a costume, but that costume doesn't make him who he is. He's still Wolverine without it... Selina is still Catwoman without cat ears.

 

[batmanlover]

No. She is defined by her cat-like behavior, demeanor (moral ambiguity/unpredictability/stubbornness/indifference) and skills (athleticism/stealth), the fact that she is an (in)famous cat-burglar, and her love for cats.

Two primary functions of the bat-suit are:
- Hide Batman's identity.
- Use the bat's likeness to scare criminals.

Catwoman's suit shares only the that first function. She doesn't dress up like a cat to scare people -- the only reason she incorporated cat-like features into her outfit is because she likes cats. Now, if you guys' primary complaint was that the outfit in the picture doesn't do a good enough job at hiding her identity then I guess I could understand that, even though that aspect doesn't really bother me either, but to say that the lack of cat ears means she's "not catwoman" to you before you have seen ANY finalized footage of her is just mind-blowing to me. No offense, but I really don't understand how people can be so incredibly stubborn and narrow-minded as to say something so definitive about a character they have only seen one official picture of. And a picture of which the context is completely unknown to them, at that.

These are my sentiments exactly!

 

[KalMart]

Maybe she's just Selina Kyle in the movie...a stripper and a thief...and not directly referred to as 'Catwoman' just like Harvey Dent and Dr. Crane weren't specifically called Two-Face/Scarecrow except as nicknames in passing conversations/ramblings or such (can't remember....did Crane call himself 'Scarecrow' at the end?). Whereas 'Joker' and 'Bane' are not just names but identifying titles amongst criminal communities, etc.

Anyway...back before we knew there was going to be a Selina Kyle in this movie, I posted how that IF they used 'Catwoman', it could be a very modified and reinterpreted version from the comic-like cat-ears and whip, etc. to fit into the storyline. What we've seen from these very few pics seem to be somewhat in line with that, but obviously it's too early to tell for sure.

So what we might end up with is a character based on/inspired by Catwoman but still named Selina Kyle. If the story/movie is good, I'm fine with that since I don't go into any comic-based move to 'see comics on the big screen'....but I also understand how some avid comic fans would feel a little let down.

 

[Smegger56]

Maybe she's just Selina Kyle in the movie...a stripper and a thief...and not directly referred to as 'Catwoman' just like Harvey Dent and Dr. Crane weren't specifically called Two-Face/Scarecrow except as nicknames in passing conversations/ramblings or such (can't remember....did Crane call himself 'Scarecrow' at the end?). Whereas 'Joker' and 'Bane' are not just names but identifying titles amongst criminal communities, etc.

.

Yeah. Carmine Falcone, after being hit with the hallucinogen, is in a room with Rachael and Crane Observing. He's repeatedly saying 'Scarecrow' (obviously it's what the mask and gas did to Falcone) and Racheal ask: What's scarecrow? And crane gives an psycho explanation. Then, at the end, he calls himself scarecrow because of what Falcone said.

And two face was two face because everyone called him a two face for what he did in his internal investigations.

 

[Laderlappen]

I honestly dont believe that is the whole costume. Its not like Nolan to release the whole look of a character so early and its not like Nolan to be sucha ***** with a characters look(no pun intended). I just think in that scene she just isnt wearing the mask for some reason.

 

[KalMart]

Yeah. Carmine Falcone, after being hit with the hallucinogen, is in a room with Rachael and Crane Observing. He's repeatedly saying 'Scarecrow' (obviously it's what the mask and gas did to Falcone) and Racheal ask: What's scarecrow? And crane gives an psycho explanation. Then, at the end, he calls himself scarecrow because of what Falcone said.

And two face was two face because everyone called him a two face for what he did in his internal investigations.

But you know what I mean....they're Two-Face and Scarecrow via association with what they do in the story, but are primarily Dent and Crane...whereas Joker is a more mysterious character of unknown origin known only as Joker as both a name and 'title' amongst the underworld. The term 'Catwoman' could originate from law-enforcement people at first jokingly referring to the 'cat-burglar woman', rather than a prominent cat-like persona and the whole feline-themed theatricality like in the comics.

 

[Smegger56]

But you know what I mean....they're Two-Face and Scarecrow via association with what they do in the story, but are primarily Dent and Crane...whereas Joker is a more mysterious character of unknown origin known only as Joker as both a name and 'title' amongst the underworld. The term 'Catwoman' could originate from law-enforcement people at first jokingly referring to the 'cat-burglar woman', rather than a prominent cat-like persona and the whole feline-themed theatricality like in the comics.

I completely agree. She may get attached that name by law enforcment or the press.

lol. Only when the film is released will ALL be answered

 

[Travesty]

Ha, I'm glad Marx is around. I was eager to hear his thoughts on Catwoman, and especially Bane's voice.

 

[KalMart]

I know that a lot of comic fans want to see the Catwoman from comics on the screen, but personally, I didn't...not in Nolan's version. So I'm not really bothered by the prospect of seeing a modified/reinterpreted Selina Kyle inspired by, but not necessarily beholden in every detail to the comics. In fact, I'd prefer that for these movies IF they were going to use Kyle/Catwoman. But if the character does 'evolve' more into the whole cat-image motif, I'm still looking forward to it as well because of the work we've seen thus far from these filmmakers.

It almost feels like some were looking to the Kyle/Catwoman character as the one 'can't-miss' opportunity to incorporate some 'comic-sensibilities' into this more realistically-grounded adaptation. Whereas if we are getting a modified, less-cat-like version, to me, it would be more inline with the overall approach to these films...even though it would be a real point of contention amongst avid comic/Batman fans. I've always looked at these films as an 'alternate' version of Batman's world from the one in the comics, so I'd prefer that they stay 'true' to their own approach, rather than having to score tribute points or what have you with the more comic-like ones. But that probably bothers some comic-fans just on principle.

I guess that makes it a bit easier for me to take in what these movies are trying to be between the first and last minute of their running time, instead of what they're supposed to encompass outside of that, if you will. But I also understand how some would feel differently.

 

[regwec]

I am sure everyone accepts the basic truth that the formation of a compelling character is a more pressing priority than designing an appropriate costume for that character.

There is no reason, however, to suggest that a perfect costume would some how diminish or distract us from the efforts of the actress, the scriptwriter and the director. The costume designer's role is different and easily defined. They are responsible for designing costumes. Are those who continually remind us that performance is more important that costume actually attempting to argue that having a better costume would require sacrificing the integrity of the performance?

If so, I don't understand why. Heath Ledger's costume as The Joker is widely accepted to be a very good one. His performance was also very good. They complimented each other. I do not recall anyone, at the time when the first full picture of The Joker was released, telling us all not to get too excited, as the costume was just a costume and the performance was the important bit.

So, although I place myself cautiously among the Catsuits defenders, I have to say that it is pretty silly to use this thread as a platform from which to play down the significance of costumes.