The Dark Knight Rises Are Nolan's Batman Films Really THAT Realistic?!

[The Joker]

TDK does try to portray a realistic world. Gotham looks like Chicago instead of Gotham. They explain China's extradition policy. They explain RICO, but do it wrong. Nolan has even said he "tries to find the realism in these fantastic stories".

Then they have fantastical elements thrown in. It's not that big a deal, but I find it a bit jarring when they have all these realistic elements, then throw them all out the window when it's convenient.

Explaining the fantasy logic behind some of their plot points doesn't make it any less fantasy.

For example Peter Parker and Otto Octavius talk about the science of Ock's fusion ball in Spider-Man 2, even though such a thing doesn't exist, and the whole basis of it being made from tritium (which they claim is rare when it's actually as common as water) is BS.

 

[Boom]

Nolan takes the fantastic elements of the mythology, and presents them in such a way that they appear in practical/realistic terms.

That's it.

 

[DieSmiling]

Of course there are aspects of the movie that are preposterous. It's friggin' Batman.

Like, a guy in a Bat costume as a vigilante of the night is acceptable, but implausible technology that gets fingerprints off a shattered bullet is too much?

The reason it's got the rep for being "realistic" is because moreso than any other superhero movie it makes the effort to explain who this guy is, why he does what he does, and how he's able to do what he's able to do, with the explanations being more grounded and logical than in previous incarnations.

This works pretty well with Batman, because unlike other superheroes there is nothing that is literally impossible about him. Superman is impossible. Spider-Man is impossible. The X-Men are impossible. There just aren't people with those abilities. Batman, while ridiculously preposterpous and unrealistic, has very few intrinsic qualities to him that are impossible.

Obviously it has elements to it that could never happen, but it's f'n Batman, if it didn't have those it would suck.

Really, you have some over the top technology, ridiculous "nobody could ever do that" skills, and convinient plot contrivances, which all make for a good movie. Some people take the "realistic" thing too far, but anybody with half a brain could compare the Nolan batfilms to the average superhero film and understand what people mean when they say the movies are more grounded in reality than the average film of the genre.

 

[The Morningstar]

You just mentioned 3 plausible elements of TDK. The fantastical outweigh the realistic ones, though. It's just a realistic setting, nothing more. A connection to our world, used as a window for us to go more smoothly to the fantastical world of Batman.

They are just a few off the top of my head.

I think my biggest problem with it, is the bullet scanning thing. The movie is trying to have authentic police proceedural elements, with the extradition policies and the RICO law. Then it has the bullet scanning thing that would make the script writers of CSI Miami laugh.

 

[Gianakin_]

They are just a few off the top of my head.

I think my biggest problem with it, is the bullet scanning thing. The movie is trying to have authentic police proceedural elements, with the extradition policies and the RICO law. Then it has the bullet scanning thing that would make the script writers of CSI Miami laugh.

That's what happens in the comics as well, though. Ridiculous technology, that is. AND they include/explain stuff that exist or work in real life. I don't get it...

 

[The Morningstar]

Explaining the fantasy logic behind some of their plot points doesn't make it any less fantasy.

For example Peter Parker and Otto Octavius talk about the science of Ock's fusion ball in Spider-Man 2, even though such a thing doesn't exist, and the whole basis of it being made from tritium (which they claim is rare when it's actually as common as water) is BS.

Yea, but the Spider-Man films don't have a single pretense of being realistic or plausible or grounded in any way. That fusion ball doesn't contradict the rules of the world Spider-Man is set in at all.

The ******ed bullet scanning thing does contradict the rules of TDKs world.

 

[hatebox]

They are just a few off the top of my head.

I think my biggest problem with it, is the bullet scanning thing. The movie is trying to have authentic police proceedural elements, with the extradition policies and the RICO law. Then it has the bullet scanning thing that would make the script writers of CSI Miami laugh.

That's a bold statement given some of the stuff seen on that show.

But the real point of that scene is to show how meticulous and far bruce is willing (and able) to go, ie. way beyond the police. The means of depicting that don't actually matter too much.

 

[The Joker]

Yea, but the Spider-Man films don't have a single pretense of being realistic or plausible or grounded in any way.

That's not the point. The point is that explaining something, even when it's a world with a fantasy based premise, doesn't make it any less fantastical.

You persecute Nolan's movies for having realistic elements mixed with fantasy ones as though having some realism means that there's no room for the outrageous. Especially when it's a movie like Batman.

No offense but I find your complaints to be very much hyperbole.

 

[Gianakin_]

And the only thing Nolan's mentioned is a "more realistic" approach, the key word being "more". If he was going for THE realistic approach, the movie would've ended in BB, with Rachel slapping Bruce, then Bruce going to his Manor getting high as a kite in room full of dead crackwh**es.

 

[Boom]

To elaborate on my earlier point, there is nothing realistic about the presentation of Two-Face in TDK.

In the real world, Dent would have most likely died on the spot from having half his face burned off. If, by some act of God, he did survive the burning, he would have died later from shock, pain, or infection.

In the real world, Dent would have been confined to an isolation chamber in the hospital due to the degree of his burns and the high risk of infection. In order to visit him, Gordon would have had to wear one of those full-body anti-bacterial suits.

In the real world, Dent's left eye (which was surprisingly intact) would not be able to move.

However, ignoring all the fantastic elements, the design looks like a real burn victim. It looks like real charred skin. It looks like real tendons and muscles. It looks like a legit burn wound, as opposed to Tommy Lee Jones' version of the character.

 

[DieSmiling]

The ******ed bullet scanning thing does contradict the rules of TDKs world.

Says who? You're just saying that it does, there's no reason why it does.

It's a world with microwave emitters (which BTW is ten times more ridiculous than the bullet scanning) men dressed like Bats fighting crime, stealth tanks, and terrorist clowns who are fifteen steps ahead of everybody and yet the bullet scanning is something you can't get past?

Basically they film ignores supernatural elements of Batman's world and attempts to offer explanations for most of the fantastical elements. It doesn't try to get rid of all fantastical elements. If it did it wouldn't be Batman.

 

[The Morningstar]

That's not the point. The point is that explaining something, even when it's a world with a fantasy based premise, doesn't make it any less fantastical.

You persecute Nolan's movies for having realistic elements mixed with fantasy ones as though having some realism means that there's no room for the outrageous. Especially when it's a movie like Batman.

No offense but I find your complaints to be very much hyperbole.

No, I persecute TDK because it tries to hard to be serious and plausible. It's like it's screaming out "Take me seriously! I'm all gritty and dark and realistic!".

Then it just throws in a bunch of crap like the bullet scanning thing.

My point is, explaining Chinas extradition policy and the RICO law is redundant and just screams "Take me seriously! PLEASE!"

 

[The Morningstar]

Says who? You're just saying that it does, there's no reason why it does.

It's a world with microwave emitters (which BTW is ten times more ridiculous than the bullet scanning) men dressed like Bats fighting crime, stealth tanks, and terrorist clowns who are fifteen steps ahead of everybody and yet the bullet scanning is something you can't get past?

Basically they film ignores supernatural elements of Batman's world and attempts to offer explanations for most of the fantastical elements. It doesn't try to get rid of all fantastical elements. If it did it wouldn't be Batman.

I don't think Begins has as much pretense of being serious and plausible. Even in the design of Gotham. Begins Gotham looks like Gotham. TDK Gotham looks like... Chicago...

 

[hatebox]

My point is, explaining Chinas extradition policy and the RICO law is redundant and just screams "Take me seriously! PLEASE!"

You're clutching at straws with this one. The audience needed to be reminded of that to realise why Batman had to go there in the first place.

 

[Gianakin_]

No, I persecute TDK because it tries to hard to be serious and plausible. It's like it's screaming out "Take me seriously! I'm all gritty and dark and realistic!".

Then it just throws in a bunch of crap like the bullet scanning thing.

My point is, explaining Chinas extradition policy and the RICO law is redundant and just screams "Take me seriously! PLEASE!"

Don't look at this as an attack to you, but from this argument and our previous one it looks like you disagree with Nolan's take, rather than seeing actual inconsistencies in it.

And I'm only saying this because both of your arguments ended up with you complaining about Nolan in a "Take me seriously" and "This is a deep socio-political movie" fashion.

 

[DieSmiling]

I don't think Begins has as much pretense of being serious and plausible. Even in the design of Gotham. Begins Gotham looks like Gotham. TDK Gotham looks like... Chicago...

You're totally reaching here. The tone of TDK is no more serious or gritty than that of Batman Begins.

The movie is darker, but your claims that TDK takes itself more seriously are, IMO, baseless. They both take themselves seriously.

 

[The Morningstar]

You're clutching at straws with this one. The audience needed to be reminded of that to realise why Batman had to go there in the first place.

I don't think so. Lau's in China, Batman goes and snatches him. There was no need to say anything about Chinas extradition policy. Other that to re-enforce that the movie is all serious and realistic.

Don't look at this as an attack to you, but from this argument and our previous one it looks like you disagree with Nolan's take, rather than seeing actual inconsistencies in it.

I acutally really like Begins. Because I feel it doesn't sacrifice fun and entertainment in favour of some pretense at being all serious and sending socio-political messages. TDK, to me, just seems to be trying too hard.

 

[Boom]

I have no problem with Nolan treating these films seriously.

Better than him treating them as a joke .

 

[The Morningstar]

You're totally reaching here. The tone of TDK is no more serious or gritty than that of Batman Begins.

The movie is darker, but your claims that TDK takes itself more seriously are, IMO, baseless. They both take themselves seriously.

Begins doesn't try as hard though, I find. It's like TDK is yearning for acceptance from the high brow crowd.

 

[Boom]

Well, look at it this way.

Folks who didn't know about China's extradition policy and RICO cases walked away from TDK having learned something. Nolan's Batman films are fun and educational .

 

[hatebox]

I don't think so. Lau's in China, Batman goes and snatches him. There was no need to say anything about Chinas extradition policy. Other that to re-enforce that the movie is all serious and realistic.

I've heard some bizarre complaints about TDK but this is up there. It's hard to imagine Nolean would add such a throw-away line to show off - who would be impressed by something like that?

If nothing else it further cements how far outside the law Batman operates - even to the point of defying entire governments. I actually think the whole Hong Kong set-piece, beyond looking great, was a tad superfluous but your complaint about the relatively trivial extradition line appears to go way beyond that...

 

[RedTornadbro]

If they wanted to go completely realistic you would see a batman movie starring... Alberto Falcone, Mr. Zsasz and the Ventriloquist.. I don't know about you guys but that would be a pretty lame movie.. Batman Begins was pretty realistic im not going to lie, TDK had its unrealistic points (ex1: two-face's half burned face that seemed to be functioning properly) but still most of it was pretty realistic.

On a side note:
The specific locations of Lazarus Pits are unknown.. There's one that's been confirmed in the Bat cave (in the comics).. We wouldn't know if they're surrounded by all he's got or not.. Honestly I hope its not a Lazarus pit because there are too many unrealistic situations that occur with the pits.

 

[Boom]

I actually think the whole Hong Kong set-piece, beyond looking great, was a tad superfluous

I agree.

I would've liked to see Batman stop Lau from leaving Gotham just as his plane was about to take off, and have a great action scene at the airport/airstrip.

A scene like that would've kept the film in Gotham, and eaten up less time.

 

[The Morningstar]

Well, look at it this way.

Folks who didn't know about China's extradition policy and RICO cases walked away from TDK having learned something. Nolan's Batman films are fun and educational .

Well, the way RICO was implemented was wrong, so it back fired there

I've heard som bizarre complaints about TDK but this is up there. It's hard to imagine Nolean would add such a throw-away line to show off - who would be impressed by something like that?

If nothing else it further cements how far outside the law Batman operates - even to the point of defying entire governments. I actually think the whole Hong Kong set-piece, beyond looking great, was a tad superfluous but you're complaint about the extradition line appears to go beyond that...

I agree that it shows Batman defying even entire Governments. But still, it adds to the "world building" of the movie, and that logic is broken by other elements of the film. I guess the utter stupidity of the bullet scanning thing really pisses me off. TDK has real police proceedural stuff, then it has that bullet scanning thing. It just really jumps out at me. Why didn't Batman just pick up the bullet casings off the floor and do some real detective work? Instead of some "high concept" gadget that makes no sense?

 

[Boom]

Well, the way RICO was implemented was wrong, so it back fired there