Arrow Arrow General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - Part 23

[Mikelus]

I'm not going to lie, I'm having a hard time trying to stick with the show. I'd say this season is a bit better than season 3, but overall, it's still suffering from the kind of poor execution that dragged down S3. And it's been bleeding over into the Flash as well.

None of the episodes have been flat out bad, as some were in S3...but there's a lot of instances of decent ideas that are very poorly carried out, and it's starting to get to the point where I'm finding it hard to care about the characters. Is anyone else feeling this way?

I'm hoping things will start to get better, because at one point Arrow was one of my favorite Superhero shows, but it's been rough lately.

You're not the only one and now with the whole Oliver keeping secrets again, is only going to get worse. After all the negative criticism the producers got last season, they decide to repeat the same mistakes. Apparently, stable couples are boring, so they have to create drama, the problem is they're doing it at the expense of the characters. It's really awful writing, William has the right to know Oliver is his father, Samantha can't force Oliver to keep it secret, it's one of the worst plots Arrow has ever done.

With shows like Daredevil and Jessica Jones being so good (and soon Luke Cage and Iron Fist), the Berlanti shows just can't keep up. WBTV should hire better producers, who care more about doing the best series possible instead of pandering to a minority.

 

[Omegabat]

You're not the only one and now with the whole Oliver keeping secrets again, is only going to get worse. After all the negative criticism the producers got last season, they decide to repeat the same mistakes. Apparently, stable couples are boring, so they have to create drama, the problem is they're doing it at the expense of the characters. It's really awful writing, William has the right to know Oliver is his father, Samantha can't force Oliver to keep it secret, it's one of the worst plots Arrow has ever done.

With shows like Daredevil and Jessica Jones being so good (and soon Luke Cage and Iron Fist), the Berlanti shows just can't keep up. WBTV should hire better producers, who care more about doing the best series possible instead of pandering to a minority.

This and I'm certain that grave belongs to either Samatha or William,anything that comes in to conflict with Olcity will be kicked to the curb.
WB needs to get rid of these moron show runners fast, just 2 years back DC fans were parading their tv success, not any more now. Marvel will close the gap eventually and when they do DC will be screwed.

 

[ZIPBAGS]

I can't understand why the mother of his kid doesn't want Felicity to know...except to cause tension on the show. Yes, I understand you don't want the world to know Oliver is the father. But, to ask him not to tell someone he is planning on proposing to is a bit of a stretch.

 

[Boy Scout]

It doesn't make sense at all.

 

[Verick808]

She doesn't want anyone to know. It just takes one person saying the wrong thing at the wrong time and suddenly William would be a celebrity. Not only would he be the next generation of the fallen Queen bloodline but he would be the son of a mayoral candidate. Oliver Queen's neglected love child would be front page news. Then of course there's Damian Darhk. Samantha doesn't know who she is but I'm sure she heard what happened to the last candidate for Mayor of Stars City. Or more specifically, her daughter.

So I can understand....I still could have done without it though. Understandable or not I'm tired of relationship drama. The only good thing about Olicity was it seemed like her crying and getting upset was behind us. Obviously not.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Remember that one time they had Laurel impersonate her sister for no reason only to keep her dad from figuring out her sister was dead? Senseless drama.

 

[Paradox1]

I think Ollie's baby mama is justified in wanting to keep the circle small of who knows. If it got out it would completely disrupt that kids life as he knows it. Oliver not wanting to tell Felicity is all about him not trusting her. People tell us secrets, we have secrets and who you choose to tell them to is a big indicator of who you trust. He doesn't trust her to keep it plain and simple.

 

[Jedi Arrow]

Y'all are being too quick to judge this show again. S3 had bumps and bruises, yeah, a lot of them. But S4 has repeated absolutely none of those mistakes. Everyone says "drama" like it's a bad word. Drama's necessary for a show to continue. S1 and S2 were chock full of drama. And they were great. Bad drama isn't good. But this season's drama has been of a lot better quality than S3's constant drama-fest. When it goes on constantly, it gets old. But there have been like 2 episodes this season that have had actual relationship drama, and one of them it was resolved with a calm, thought-out discussion.

And for what it's worth? Part of me thinks the show writers have been making Felicity seem more and more selfish on purpose. That way when she and Oliver eventually separate, it'll be because of her selfishness and inability to accept Oliver for who he is. She constantly makes the relationship all about her and eventually Oliver will get tired of it. Either she will be the one who dies, she and Oliver will break up, or they'll stay together and she'll change (which, you know, would be great because it'd be an actual character arc).

Why don't we just chill out and see where they take this before we judge how annoying the drama is. I have to think that they're doing a great job because episodes 1-7 have been slam dunks through-and-through (and I haven't seen 8 yet). Plus if the funeral seen in 1 is any indication Oliver won't go back to being the sullen person he was whenever something bad happened before. He's a changed person, and that in and of itself will affect the flow of the whole show since he's the protagonist. S4 has been great and I'm looking forward to seeing how the rest of it goes.

 

[Verick808]

I think Ollie's baby mama is justified in wanting to keep the circle small of who knows. If it got out it would completely disrupt that kids life as he knows it. Oliver not wanting to tell Felicity is all about him not trusting her. People tell us secrets, we have secrets and who you choose to tell them to is a big indicator of who you trust. He doesn't trust her to keep it plain and simple.

Honestly, Felicity wouldn't be very high on my list of people who can keep a secret either. I think it was twice just this season that she left the coms on during a private conversation. The only member of team Arrow I would trust to keep a secret is Diggle to be honest.

 

[Paradox1]

Honestly, Felicity wouldn't be very high on my list of people who can keep a secret either. I think it was twice just this season that she left the coms on during a private conversation. The only member of team Arrow I would trust to keep a secret is Diggle to be honest.

I agree but once your in a relationship your partner regardless of their ability to keep secrets usually expects to be in the know. It's like that joke in Seinfeld when Jerry has to stop telling George his secrets because George has a girlfriend and knows he can't keep them from his girlfriend.

 

[kguillou]

Ok, I hate to be that person, because I really am enjoying season 4 a great deal so far, but man, the Marvel Netflix shows have completely ruined my enjoyment for this show's fight scenes. The fight scenes in this show used to be the standout sequences I looked forward to but I'm finding myself less and less fulfilled each time there is an action sequence. There have been a few standout sequences but I can't help but notice the choreography.

For a while I was thinking that this is just due to it being a CW show and they do not have the budget and time to orchestrate better fight scenes but I just finished watching The 100, another CW show, and that show has some MEAN fight scenes! I got me thinking, "why can't we get this kind of visceral action on Arrow?"

 

[Slade W]

Ok, I hate to be that person, because I really am enjoying season 4 a great deal so far, but man, the Marvel Netflix shows have completely ruined my enjoyment for this show's fight scenes. The fight scenes in this show used to be the standout sequences I looked forward to but I'm finding myself less and less fulfilled each time there is an action sequence. There have been a few standout sequences but I can't help but notice the choreography.

For a while I was thinking that this is just due to it being a CW show and they do not have the budget and time to orchestrate better fight scenes but I just finished watching The 100, another CW show, and that show has some MEAN fight scenes! I got me thinking, "why can't we get this kind of visceral action on Arrow?"

I agree, the fight scenes on DD are incredible (I haven't seen JJ yet). They are definitely much better than the majority of Arrows. That said, I haven't seen a fight as exciting or memorable as the first one between Oliver and Ra's (the first few times that I watched it) in a long time. It was not as flashy or as skilful as the fights on DD, but I think that it told a better story and had more tension than any of them IMO and I genuinely did not know what was going to happen next in it. It was the most exciting fight (and episode) that I have seen on TV or in a movie in quite a while.

 

[kguillou]

Even JJ has some great fight sequences. I won't spoil it but there is an amazing fight scene near the end of the show with a...well known Marvel character. I mean, look, I get it, its a network show with a lower budget and they have to film 23 episodes a year and film them fairly quickly and efficiently and I am grateful for what we get. But I still feel like the choreography and editing of the fight scenes can and should be better. Agents of SHIELD is another example, that show pulls off it's fight sequences VERY well. It makes me think that maybe Arrow just needs a better choreographer and editor.

Also, yes, the first Ollie vs. Ra's fight was VERY well done. I'd like more of that.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I just finished watching Jessica Jones, fantastic show but the fight scenes were not all that great IMO, a couple of the ones later on when she fights [BLACKOUT]Simpson and Luke Cage[/BLACKOUT] were good but overall action was not the shows strong suit. Thea vs Ghost Andy was better than any of them IMO.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Arrows problem now is that it has so many fighting characters but isn't willing to take the time to give everyone specific fighting styles and they rely way to much on BIG fight scenes with all their characters in 1 location fighting Putties. They need to break the team in 2 on missions and give them smaller more intimate fights.

 

[SpideyVille]

I just finished watching Jessica Jones, fantastic show but the fight scenes were not all that great IMO, a couple of the ones later on when she fights [BLACKOUT]Simpson and Luke Cage[/BLACKOUT] were good but overall action was not the shows strong suit. Thea vs Ghost Andy was better than any of them IMO.

Yeah, I haven't finished watching JJ yet, but so far, from all the fight scenes I've seen, they seem to steal from Smallville's playbook where the super powered person usually resorts to just tossing someone around because realistically if they were to punch someone, they could stop them in one hit and possibly even kill them.

It's something I've noticed in many superhero shows where they "fight" normal people. The reason why fights have worked well in Arrow in the past and in Daredevil is because these are very human characters fighting mostly human enemies, so it seems grounded. But the Flash suffers from this too where the action is more dramatic than physical.

 

[Boy Scout]

Ok, I hate to be that person, because I really am enjoying season 4 a great deal so far, but man, the Marvel Netflix shows have completely ruined my enjoyment for this show's fight scenes. The fight scenes in this show used to be the standout sequences I looked forward to but I'm finding myself less and less fulfilled each time there is an action sequence. There have been a few standout sequences but I can't help but notice the choreography.

For a while I was thinking that this is just due to it being a CW show and they do not have the budget and time to orchestrate better fight scenes but I just finished watching The 100, another CW show, and that show has some MEAN fight scenes! I got me thinking, "why can't we get this kind of visceral action on Arrow?"

I don't think it's fair to compare a Netflix show to a network show.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

What is it with the love interests on these shows? I can't decide if Laurel or Iris is more worthless. It's like they're included for no other reason than to add extra complications. Lana on Smallville never bothered me, but I do finally understand where the complaints were coming from.

I just finished watching Jessica Jones, fantastic show but the fight scenes were not all that great IMO, a couple of the ones later on when she fights [BLACKOUT]Simpson and Luke Cage[/BLACKOUT] were good but overall action was not the shows strong suit. Thea vs Ghost Andy was better than any of them IMO.

They cautioned not to expect dazzling fight scenes like Daredevil long before JJ released because it wasn't that kind of show.

 

[Arrowshieldfan]

I think just two people fighting would be better than four at a time? Diggle/Oliver on some mission then Laurel/Speedy on another.

 

[Paradox1]

I think the fighting on Arrow is fine it's not as brutal looking as it can be because it's on a network opposed to a streaming service or a premium cable channel. If there is a benchmark for fight scenes on tv it's not any of the shows mentioned by many. They are by far the more mainstream choice but hands down it's Banshee for me. There are a couple scenes in that which I would compare favorably to the Raid series. Which is the benchmark I compare for all action fight scenes on tv or film.

 

[kguillou]

Well, here's the thing, and I'm curious to what you guys think of this, I'm starting to think that its less to do with the network and more to do with the fight choreographer/director they're using. There are other network shows that have had much better, more brutal looking fight choreography such as Nikita (also a CW show), The 100, Agents of Shield, I encourage you guys to look up some fight scenes from these shows to see what I mean.

I think a lot of it has to do with how the fights are edited. Like Primal Slayer said, we tend to see a bunch of characters onscreen fighting a bunch of random putties and it doesn't give off the impression that anyone is really getting hurt. I noticed that when a fight scene occurs the camera seems to zoom out a lot as we watch the stunt men just dance around each other.

Not trying to pick on the show, I've been loving season 4 but admittedly this has been something that has been bugging me since season 3 (and even more noticeably since DD hit Netflix) and I wanted to see if anyone else felt this way.

 

[Arrowshieldfan]

James Bamford was the fight coordinator for season 1 and 2 so it may be a director/editor thing or Bamford decide to go big instead one on one?

 

[Spider-Who?]

It's a quantity over quality thing. In the earlier season, you really only had Arrow fighting the bad guys. Choreography was easier to do when you were only working with one hero. Now, you have to spend time to figure out the fights and train and shoot scenes with Arrow, Speedy, Black Canary, Diggle, and sometimes even more characters. I think it's just too much for the stunt guys to deal with every show while keeping the quality up.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Agents of Shield manages to pull off awesome fight scenes and they have 4+ fighters on that show, the writers/stunt team just need to get it together.

 

[Spider-Who?]

You're not the only one and now with the whole Oliver keeping secrets again, is only going to get worse.

Sigh. I jumped on the Arrow bandwagon late, so I've seen pretty much every episode within the last month or two, and Jesus, it really is ridiculous. Every single dramatic arc between every character has to do with keeping some kind of secret/lying. It's just lazy.