Arrow Arrow General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - Part 25

[SpideyVille]

Yeah, season 3 was a mess altogether. Olicity was the biggest spotlight, but even in the episodes that didn't focus on that, you still have all the Sara/Malcolm stuff, that ultimately proved pointless halfway through.

 

[metaphysician]

Interesting comparison, regarding Angel and Arrow. Both shows had strong early seasons (Arrows were better, had more focus and had a faster pace, getting through more storylines quicker), then both took a big dip in season 3 and 4 (again, I think Arrow's were better). Season 5 for Angel was a massive improvement and was arguably the best of the series (Spike really invigorated the show, and the dynamic between him and Angel was very interesting, as well as a lot of fun). Sadly, I do not see Arrow improving in such a manner in season 5.

*blink* I'm not sure I can reconcile this with the show I watched. Season 3 was pretty much the peak, in my opinion. The Holz arc is basically everything that was great with the show.

 

[metaphysician]

Yeah the way the scene was cut felt off but going with what MG said, the death is "permanent" so I think it is.

Yeah, but consider: what exactly would he say otherwise? "No, really, its cool, its just a fake death"?

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Arrow Is Dead, And Olicity Killed It

Forbes LOL.

 

[Wheels]

What if Black Siren becomes Black Canary somehow?

 

[Nathan]

Then Guggenheim will have one more chance to butcher the character?

 

[famicommander]

What if Black Siren becomes Black Canary somehow?

I wouldn't be against it, but it does seem pretty counter-intuitive to spend four seasons building a character and then replace her with an extremely similar but slightly different version of herself. Why spend all that time with the drug addiction and recovery, the relationship drama, the training with Wildcat/Nyssa, the Sara resurrection arc, etc just to kill her off and immediately start fresh?

 

[Wheels]

Then Guggenheim will have one more chance to butcher the character?

Hahaha perhaps. I could see them doing that though.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

I wouldn't be against it, but it does seem pretty counter-intuitive to spend four seasons building a character and then replace her with an extremely similar but slightly different version of herself. Why spend all that time with the drug addiction and recovery, the relationship drama, the training with Wildcat/Nyssa, the Sara resurrection arc, etc just to kill her off and immediately start fresh?

Because Guggenheim doesn't give a **** about the fans. The sooner us pesky "nerds" with comic book knowledge leaves the show the sooner he can get away with making a crappy show with minimum amount of effort.

That's the truth of it. We're more likely to complain about a crappy show than the shippers.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I didn't notice it until last night how Arrow managed to treat it's female characters when it came to death, they were all helpless. All to serve an agenda. While all of their male characters go down in a blaze of glory.

Spoiler

 

[Wheels]

Since when was Berlanti's version of Dinah so beloved? I'll admit I liked Laurel this season and never hated her like some, but I'm mildly surprised by this reaction.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I've been her #1 supporter since day 1 but she has won people over throughout the years.

 

[SpideyVille]

Since when was Berlanti's version of Dinah so beloved? I'll admit I liked Laurel this season and never hated her like some, but I'm mildly surprised by this reaction.

It's not so much that the character was so loved, but rather what her death symbolizes.

For the past year and a half, they've been building towards Olicity, which ultimately has not worked for the original, core fanbase. Their decision to focus solely on that aspect of the show has made everything else suffer.

Yes, there are many of us who expected them to realize this, and maybe bring Laurel and Olive together in the future, but the fact that the show has been dipping in quality, and Olicity seems to be their bread and butter in their eyes, the fact that they killed off an iconic character, and a crucial one in the life of Oliver Queen, shows they're taking a huge departure from the source material, and it really dampens any hope for the show going forward.

It would be one thing to write her off, but the fact that they killed her, and had her last words be in support of Olicity, it shows that they are so out of touch with their core fandom that they don't really care about the people who supported the show from the beginning.

 

[Reek]

I just think she's a terrible actress... she is hot though...

and I'm among the few i am sure... but i think the canary cry is just beyond ridiculous and she looks ridiculous doing it... its like comedic relief or something.

 

[O'Haire]

Since when was Berlanti's version of Dinah so beloved? I'll admit I liked Laurel this season and never hated her like some, but I'm mildly surprised by this reaction.

Most of my anger is because they could of done so much with the character. They clearly had no clue what to do with her. This goes back to the first two seasons as well. Figured once she became BC, they had some cool stuff in store for us. Give her her own storylines and villains. But they didn't.

How I felt when Roy left last season. They knew he was leaving and still did jack **** with him. Then he was gone. But at least Roy is alive and can still make appearances and ****.

 

[SpideyVille]

Most of my anger is because they could of done so much with the character. They clearly had no clue what to do with her. This goes back to the first two seasons as well. Figured once she became BC, they had some cool stuff in store for us. Give her her own storylines and villains. But they didn't.

How I felt when Roy left last season. They knew he was leaving and still did jack **** with him. Then he was gone. But at least Roy is alive and can still make appearances and ****.

Yeah it's very counter -productive. If you know you have a character that is ont their way out, wouldn't it make sense to use them as much as possible, or at the very least, give them something to do at some point in the season.

Both Laurel and Roy were used as plot devices isn't characters. Roy was to destroy the Arrow persona, and Laurel was to push Oliver over the edge to where he will want to kill Dhark.

And like Primal pointed out, either in this thread or another, all of the female deaths have been used to push Oliver and others over the edge and make them do something they never thought they would. Heck, even in season 2, Count Vertigo had Felicity hostage and that pushed Oliver to kill again.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

So this has nothing really to do with Laurel?

 

[O'Haire]

It does. She became quite a good character. But she wasn't used enough and was killed off. They could of done so much with her and made her a great character.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It does. She became quite a good character. But she wasn't used enough and was killed off. They could of done so much with her and made her a great character.

I don't really agree on her being a good character, but that is simply my opinion. But so much of this seems aimed at the character of Felicity. She has become a punching bag.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

So this has nothing really to do with Laurel?

I came around to the character myself, so I'm not happy about this, we now have a Green Arrow show where in two seasons they've managed to write off Arsenal and two Black Canaries, but even if I hadn't come around to the character, using a character's dying lines to prop up Olicity is just bulls***, especially since it's pretty likely they only chose Laurel because Olicity fans saw her as a threat to their beloved ship. This episode managed to avoid shipper pandering, and show how much better the show was without it, only to pull the rug out from under us at the very end.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

I don't really agree on her being a good character, but that is simply my opinion. But so much of this seems aimed at the character of Felicity. She has become a punching bag.

with the way Felicity has developed during season 3 and 4, can you really blame us? The character and how her and her relationship with Oliver have been written is at the center of so many of the shows problem.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

with the way Felicity has developed during season 3 and 4, can you really blame us? The character and how her and her relationship with Oliver have been written is at the center of so many of the shows problem.

I have had a lot of problems with Arrow, as I caught up on the whole series over the summer and this fall. Felicity has never been in my top 10 problems. Laurel has been.

Felicity isn't the character I really liked early on, but I don't find her some curse on the show. The problem is how everything else is handled, not her relationship with Ollie. Plenty of other stuff going on, but it is lightweight. Has been from the beginning really. But without the good stuff like Sara, Moria, or a relevant Merlyn to balance it out, it feels like a disaster.

The show has been poorly written from the end of the second season on. The first big mistake was writing out the best character on the show to make way for Laurel and Felicity.

 

[SpideyVille]

So this has nothing really to do with Laurel?

It does, but it's not solely about her. If anything, killing her off seems to be the final straw for some people, and that's because there has been a lot of frustrating building up in regards to other things.

 

[SpideyVille]

I have had a lot of problems with Arrow, as I caught up on the whole series over the summer and this fall. Felicity has never been in my top 10 problems. Laurel has been.

Felicity isn't the character I really liked early on, but I don't find her some curse on the show. The problem is how everything else is handled, not her relationship with Ollie. Plenty of other stuff going on, but it is lightweight. Has been from the beginning really. But without the good stuff like Sara, Moria, or a relevant Merlyn to balance it out, it feels like a disaster.

The show has been poorly written from the end of the second season on. The first big mistake was writing out the best character on the show to make way for Laurel and Felicity.

I'm assuming you're referring to Sara, in which case that's not what happened. I'm fairly certain Sara was used as the device to introduce the Canary persona to Laurel, as well as develop a grander issue, which is the League of Assassins. To be quite honest, I was much more surprised that Sara survived til the end of the season than I was that she was killed off in season 3. It was expected, and somewhat necessary since her character was supposed to push Laurel forward in her own journey.

The issue with Sara's death though, is that they used it to propel the entire season, which ultimately made her death worthless halfway through, and made everyone else look bad. But then again, the biggest issue with Arrow since season three is that the writing is horrible and not one character has been consistent. The reason why Olicity gets the majority of the blame is because it gets the majority of screen time, and for a show centered around adults in their mid twenties, and over, it turns them into high school characters.

 

[DigificWriter]

Sara was introduced in order to serve specifically as a key part of Laurel's evolution into the Black Canary (even if the showrunners briefly toyed with the idea of making her Ravager instead). It's the fans who made more of her role and character than what the showrunners intended.

To paraphrase Joey Lucas from The West Wing, Laurel vs Sara is only a thing on the Internet.