Arrow Arrow General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - Part 25

[SpideyVille]

Sara was introduced in order to serve specifically as a key part of Laurel's evolution into the Black Canary (even if the showrunners briefly toyed with the idea of making her Ravager instead). It's the fans who made more of her role and character than what the showrunners intended.

To paraphrase Joey Lucas from The West Wing, Laurel vs Sara is only a thing on the Internet.

And that is the same thing that happened with Felicity, which is why its understandable for Katie Cassidy to be upset with her role. She was supposed to be a badass superhero and the love interest. Then one season in, they bring in a character playing a similar role, who is already a badass, and then they push Felicity as the love interest. At that point, Laurel is essentially useless. They seemed to stick by their plan with Sara, but not with Felicity.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'm assuming you're referring to Sara, in which case that's not what happened. I'm fairly certain Sara was used as the device to introduce the Canary persona to Laurel, as well as develop a grander issue, which is the League of Assassins. To be quite honest, I was much more surprised that Sara survived til the end of the season than I was that she was killed off in season 3. It was expected, and somewhat necessary since her character was supposed to push Laurel forward in her own journey.

The issue with Sara's death though, is that they used it to propel the entire season, which ultimately made her death worthless halfway through, and made everyone else look bad. But then again, the biggest issue with Arrow since season three is that the writing is horrible and not one character has been consistent. The reason why Olicity gets the majority of the blame is because it gets the majority of screen time, and for a show centered around adults in their mid twenties, and over, it turns them into high school characters.

The problem was that Sara encompassed everything you would expect from the character. The look, the personality, the relationship with Ollie. Even if you are a fan of Laurel, it is hard to say she measured up in that regard.

There was a reason they recast Sara for season 2. They needed someone not like Laurel and the original actress. Someone who could believably kick butt.

If Laurel was as much Black Canary as Sara was, this would have never been an issue.

 

[SpideyVille]

The problem was that Sara encompassed everything you would expect from the character. The look, the personality, the relationship with Ollie. Even if you are a fan of Laurel, it is hard to say she measured up in that regard.

There was a reason they recast Sara for season 2. They needed someone not like Laurel and the original actress. Someone who could believably kick butt.

If Laurel was as much Black Canary as Sara was, this would have never been an issue.

There's no denying that, but at the same time, they essentially shot themselves in the foot with that. I feel like had Sara never been introduced, no one would complain about Laurel being the Black Canary. It's the fact that Sara was a tough act to follow, and Laurel was coming off a season where she was written to look super bad, as a character. She basically had to fight an uphill battle, and to her credit, she ultimately redeemed herself.

I'm pretty sure if they had not stopped showing her training, with Ted or Nyssa, or at the very least, devoted some time to training with Oliver, people wouldn't complain about how much she lacked experience. After all, nearly every important thing that happens on Arrow, happens off screen.

 

[Wheels]

Laural's downfall is and always has been the creative team behind Arrow, not Katie Cassidy. That I agree with.

 

[DigificWriter]

Fans manufactured the "Sara vs Laurel" thing by making more of Sara's character and role than what was intended by the showrunners.

Sara was never there to "compete" with Laurel, but to compliment her and be a key part of her evolution (just as Yao Fei, Shado, Slade, and Tommy were for Oliver).

It's also a matter of opinion as to whether or not Laurel's "crucible" as depicted in Season 2was good or bad.

 

[zenith16]

What if Black Siren becomes Black Canary somehow?

lol the point is it still technically won't be laruel and she'll be guest star at most these days while I won't have too much of problem, the problem isn't that it's her or not . it's that Guggenheim doesn't care for the characters besides the ones he created.

any way I did see the fallowing episode detail's tonight on face book after coming on and seeing legends of tomorrow

NEW "ARROW" SYNOPSIS HINTS THAT

Spoiler

MIGHT NOT ACTUALLY BE DEAD

Spoiler

A new synopsis for the April 27 episode of "Arrow" hints at a recently-dead character's return.

​

Spoiler

1

​

​

Email Print
​

SPOILER WARNING: This article contains major spoilers for "11:59," last night's episode "Arrow."
The CW has released a new synopsis for the April 27 episode of "Arrow," titled "Canary Cry."
After "11:59's" killing off of Laurel Lance, it seems Oliver has a glimmer of hope, after sighting Black Canary on the streets of Star City. And Det. Lance isn't so sure Laurel's staying dead either, as he reaches out to Nyssa Al Ghul to bring his daughter back.
LOOK: Team "Arrow" Mourns Their Fallen Friend in New Photos
Check out the synopsis for "Canary Cry" below:

ARROW “Canary Cry” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, LV) (HDTV)  OLIVER, LANCE AND TEAM DEAL WITH LAUREL’S DEATH – Oliver (Stephen Amell) and the team struggle to come to terms with Laurel’s ([COLOR=#1B8EDE !important]Katie​

Cassidy) death, especially [COLOR=#1B8EDE !important]Diggle[/COLOR] (David Ramsey) who is overwhelmed with guilt for choosing to believe Andy (guest star Eugene Byrd) had changed.  Meanwhile, Lance (Paul [COLOR=#1B8EDE !important]Blackthorne[/COLOR]) refuses to believe his daughter is really gone and asks Nyssa (guest star Katrina Law) to help bring her back.  A recent Black Canary sighting in Star City only seems to prove his theory that Laurel isn’t actually dead.  [COLOR=#1B8EDE !important]Laura[/COLOR] Belsey directed the episode written by Wendy Mericle & Beth Schwartz (#419).  Original airdate 4/27/2016.​

"Arrow" airs Wednesdays at 8/7c on The CW.


​

COMIC BOOK RESOURCES

 

[Wheels]

The showrunners probably shouldn't have introduced Sara as Black Canary in the first place. They gave people what they wanted in the wrong character and expected them not to groan when she was sacrificed for Laurel's story.

 

[DigificWriter]

I have a very strong suspicion that the theme of legacy is going to crop up again, and that this "new" Canary is going to be the character played by the new actress they added to the cast (whose name I've forgotten).

 

[regnak]

Here is the thread I saw about the Olicity fans using bots to tweet with multiple accounts:


https://www.reddit.com/r/arrow/comments/4dnu2r/no_spoilers_olicity_fans_using_bots_to_get/


It has a screen shot of a bunch identical tweets hitting at the same time and explains how it is done.


[–]ForIAmTalon 14 points 1 day ago
How does botting work?





[–]Airsay58259Pray for the Bird 35 points 1 day ago
Lots of fake accounts and TweetDeck. It's a platform to use multiple accounts on the same page. For normal people it's their personal account and professional one. If you're like me you also have a fanboy/girl account. For crazies it's to tweet at the same time from dozens of accounts.




[–]ClikeXDeathGarrick 2 points 15 hours ago
That or creating Twitter accounts and hook those up to the the Twitter API.
This way you can just have a file with all the usernames and passwords and send tweets from all those accounts. Minimal programming knowledge required, honestly.


This is the Olicity "majority".

 

[Reek]

the new canary is OBVIOUSLY....




Felicity.

 

[zenith16]

The showrunners probably shouldn't have introduced Sara as Black Canary in the first place. They gave people what they wanted in the wrong character and expected them not to groan when she was sacrificed for Laurel's story.

truth be told as soon as season 2 happened alot of stuff they should have known better about shouldn't have happen and season 3 happened and it all went to hell in a hand basket from 3 on wards.


I think I remember seeing ether mekalus or hepfestus saying that they made diggle look stupid with keeping the piece of the statue darhk use's for his powers in his house of all places, for his brother Andy to find it.


but John diggle showed sign's of that with the poor excuse of an escape plan felicity had after they put thea into the pit. yeah there were ninja's and diggle love's to use his guns when he fights but seriously why john didn't have a silencer for that hand gun of his then when he had it on his suicid squad missions?

As soon as John fired the noise maker, even more of the assassins were onto them in that supposed tunnel.

again there's alot they make these characters do that when you think back weren't the brightest moves .

but sara is a welcome new feature too bad another character suffered cause the show runners don't care for the characters created before they picked up this show. I don't know why dc allowed them to be useed ether.

their(the show runners) own personal creation's take more priority. and they don't know or care for equal space time unlike some like Michael jay strajinky of Babylon 5 (and it's spin offs) and Jeremya fame and josh wheadon of buffy angel .

they just aren't of the same caliber yet they introduce characters like laurel and roy from the books and treat them as none important and waste the actors and actress's time. it's really weird

 

[Omegabat]

The problem was that Sara encompassed everything you would expect from the character. The look, the personality, the relationship with Ollie. Even if you are a fan of Laurel, it is hard to say she measured up in that regard.

There was a reason they recast Sara for season 2. They needed someone not like Laurel and the original actress. Someone who could believably kick butt.

If Laurel was as much Black Canary as Sara was, this would have never been an issue.

The only thing I personally agree on is the look,the Sara character was just never Canary. Canary is a legacy character,she isn't a killer,she grew up being influenced by heroes,was trained by Wild Cat,doesn't have some darkness inside her,fits the good girl archetype like Lois,Barbara and Iris as opposed to the bad girl type Sara is.
Imo Sara is wildly exaggerated,even her so called ability to kick ass is undermined by her inability to actually kick anyone's ass. All she does is brag about LOA training(which itself is a joke now) before she gets decked by someone who is not fodder.

 

[Paradox1]

I agree Sara was nearly the black canary in look only. What people loved about Sara on Arrow was she was a female version of Oliver.

 

[Gintoki]

Here is the thread I saw about the Olicity fans using bots to tweet with multiple accounts:


https://www.reddit.com/r/arrow/comments/4dnu2r/no_spoilers_olicity_fans_using_bots_to_get/


It has a screen shot of a bunch identical tweets hitting at the same time and explains how it is done.


[–]ForIAmTalon 14 points 1 day ago
How does botting work?





[–]Airsay58259Pray for the Bird 35 points 1 day ago
Lots of fake accounts and TweetDeck. It's a platform to use multiple accounts on the same page. For normal people it's their personal account and professional one. If you're like me you also have a fanboy/girl account. For crazies it's to tweet at the same time from dozens of accounts.




[–]ClikeXDeathGarrick 2 points 15 hours ago
That or creating Twitter accounts and hook those up to the the Twitter API.
This way you can just have a file with all the usernames and passwords and send tweets from all those accounts. Minimal programming knowledge required, honestly.


This is the Olicity "majority".

Why don't we use this?

Since probably marc doesn't even what a bot is, nor wendy does, he will be surprised, and bring back Laurel in early season 5.

 

[zenith16]

The only thing I personally agree on is the look,the Sara character was just never Canary. Canary is a legacy character,she isn't a killer,she grew up being influenced by heroes,was trained by Wild Cat,doesn't have some darkness inside her,fits the good girl archetype like Lois,Barbara and Iris as opposed to the bad girl type Sara is.
Imo Sara is wildly exaggerated,even her so called ability to kick ass is undermined by her inability to actually kick anyone's ass. All she does is brag about LOA training(which itself is a joke now) before she gets decked by someone who is not fodder.

it's more like black canary was raised by wild cat and after she travel the world she was trained by hero makers like Richard the dragon.

but other heroes that helped make her into the fighter she is which Richard was part of that, even the male heroes look up to and tried to keep up with her in her talent as a fighter. that's right alot of them were playing catch up.


she was self confident which is part of why the Green arrow (among many) fell for her as well for her attractiveness.
she was a alot of male heroes Equal. but again she was raised to be this.


sara is a Victim. she never wanted the darkness or anything life wise near that. it was forced up on her. she just wanted to live . so it's was more of a survival thing. other she never wanted that life. she is confident at times quit often, but it's a cover.

And she has only started her journey to be a hero (well she's struggling cause she doesn't see clear path) right now she not sure where she's headed . there are others besides the league that have good fighters despite what this show push's and it's more then just her that overly push the LOA .

 

[Verick808]

Sara was never Black Canary. She was the opposite in a lot of ways. She killed innocent people where as far as I know Black Canary never killed anyone in the comics. Imagine if Batman had been killing people for the League. No one would accept him as Batman. Sara could never be the Black Canary, not from the moment she was introduced. She was never meant to be.

 

[zenith16]

Sara was never Black Canary. She was the opposite in a lot of ways. She killed innocent people where as far as I know Black Canary never killed anyone in the comics. Imagine if Batman had been killing people for the League. No one would accept him as Batman. Sara could never be the Black Canary, not from the moment she was introduced. She was never meant to be.

Don't worry alot of us are aware. Sara's not a classic hero and she was in a forced deal of situation though.


So I wouldn't use the word anti cause she really doesn't fit there . in her case Sara's dancing between tragic and reluctant heroin.

 

[Batsfan1]

Fans manufactured the "Sara vs Laurel" thing by making more of Sara's character and role than what was intended by the showrunners.

Sara was never there to "compete" with Laurel, but to compliment her and be a key part of her evolution (just as Yao Fei, Shado, Slade, and Tommy were for Oliver).

It's also a matter of opinion as to whether or not Laurel's "crucible" as depicted in Season 2was good or bad.

I don't know enough to know when the rivalry actively started, but I certainly got the impression the writers were purposefully trying to create a Sara vs Laurel idea in the show when they had Sara, while stranded on an island complain about big bad Laurel messing up poor Sara's chance to get with Oliver. The impression I got was that the show was trying to justify Sara having an affair with her sister's boyfriend and I was annoyed. I had no real problem with Sara up until that moment and that was the moment where I just sat back and said to myself, "Okay show. I get it. You want me to view Laurel as the villain here... But forget that. Sara's awful to me now." The show pulled this crap again too, with the Oliver and Laurel hallway scene where I got the distinct impression that the show wanted me to hate Laurel in this situation while a serial murderer was lecturing her and everything Oliver said just sounded like gibberish. Laurel blames everyone else for her problems? I was pretty sure she'd been self blaming herself for awhile now for even things that weren't her fault, only now was she blaming anyone for anything (other than her blaming the Hood for Tommy's death who was a murderer and was at the scene), and based on the information that she had at the time they weren't criticisms that were off the mark. Oliver has loved Laurel for half his life? He had a gleeful affair with her sister and is now sleeping with her sister, who she brought as a date to their family dinner. That was just a bad scene and the show just had Laurel say nothing. They even had Oliver get angry at her for him feeling bad for her at his mom court hearing, which felt like straight up fanfiction and was kind of hypocritical considering he was getting onto her about blaming others for her problems and then gets onto her for his own problems. It wasn't even an argument and it robbed Sara and Laurel of a great scene where they hash out their issues. That was another one of those situations, where I just went, "Well, I guess the writers want me to pick a side and it's not gonna be yours Oliver, even though I feel like the writers want me to."

The problem was that Sara encompassed everything you would expect from the character. The look, the personality, the relationship with Ollie. Even if you are a fan of Laurel, it is hard to say she measured up in that regard.

There was a reason they recast Sara for season 2. They needed someone not like Laurel and the original actress. Someone who could believably kick butt.

If Laurel was as much Black Canary as Sara was, this would have never been an issue.

Laurel is at least 3 times the Black Canary Sara was. Sara didn't have the m.o., the backstory or even the real personality. She was a darkness in me character. And I've never seen Black Canary be that really. Sara was all style, no real substance in Black Canary. She wasn't the character. Have a very great day both of you!

God bless you both! God bless everyone!

 

[Wheels]

I think the reason most got into Sara was because her storyline actually entertained us and we were caught up in seeing a Canary. If Laural wasn't such a chore in season 2 for some of us, then Sara wouldn't have gone over as well as she did I imagine.

 

[Snow Queen]

Sara's far from my ideal Black Canary, but she's the closest this show ever got by a wide margin. Caity Lotz isn't the best actor on the planet, but she did a much more convincing job than Cassidy has done at any point on this show. She never had the presence for the part, and it only got worse when she put on the costume.

 

[zenith16]

I think the reason most got into Sara was because her storyline actually entertained us and we were caught up in seeing a Canary. If Laural wasn't such a chore in season 2 for some of us, then Sara wouldn't have gone over as well as she did I imagine.

yah it was the execution they chose in how they made laurel act during that season . they chose to have her do thing's most people would have hard time with liking her or understanding casue they too jerky or stupid and that's what hurt that character back then.

they just never wanted lareual in a better situation other then to be cause trouble(when some was being kind to her) or need help and of course it would her the actress's performance there weren't show many other sides she was locked in one mode in season 2.

this has been done with other characters in other comic book before .


Though those writers did admit they were purposefully aiming to have that character ate in the books and they never got the names they wanted for them selves with those actions in comic's. I just don't get why those writers did that or want to use the characters at all .

 

[HanShotFirst]

I dropped this show somewhere during the third season and still think Laurel is a terrible BC, but she was still BC nonetheless, perhaps the most important part of Green Arrow's mythos.

First they get rid of Arsenal, reduce Komodo to fodder one-episode villain and now this? While Diggle and Felicity, two completely random characters, still live and present? Show runners just do not give a single **** about the source material that much is clear.

Arrow was the show that started superhero craze on TV with season 2 being one of the best and now it's just a train-wreck that exists solely to keep its ratings afloat by appeasing the felicity fanbase. Well, at least it gave us the Flash so thank you for that.

 

[Omegabat]

Sara's far from my ideal Black Canary, but she's the closest this show ever got by a wide margin. Caity Lotz isn't the best actor on the planet, but she did a much more convincing job than Cassidy has done at any point on this show. She never had the presence for the part, and it only got worse when she put on the costume.

Was her story good? yes,well before Deathstroke anyway,was she entertaining? yes but that character is not Black Canary,the only thing she shares with the character is the name and look. It's like saying 2003 film Catwoman is Catwoman.

 

[Nathan]

Laurel was the one with the terrible story and thousands of straps and buckles on her outfit, but Sara is the 2003 Catwoman. Riiiiight.

 

[Omegabat]

Laurel was the one with the terrible story and thousands of straps and buckles on her outfit, but Sara is the 2003 Catwoman. Riiiiight.

I've already said that Sara had the better outfit but lets be real,neither outfit is accurate to the comic version. Laurel's terrible story still had traces of Black Canary here and there,Sara didn't.