Arrow Arrow Season 2 Episode 13 "Heir to the Demon" Rate/Review thread

[Primal Slayer]

I would think that her being alive would be news now seeing as though the cops showed up at the scene. They arent going to just bypass her and forget that the dead girl is now alive again.

 

[Loki882]

That's assuming that they recognize her, which isn't at all clear.
1. Everyone thinks that Sara Lance is dead, so they have no reason to look at her and immediately think "hey, that's Sara Lance."
2. Her dad probably covered for her.
3. It's been six years and she's changed, so they might not recognize her anyway.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Just from the flashback she hasnt changed at all. They should recognize her right away.

 

[mr. peasant]

Um. It's not just news outlets. Sara is legally dead. Resurrecting 'Sara Lance' would require an explanation to the Govt.

Of course, nullifying the death certificate would involve notifying the government. However, the media aren't automatically aware of every legal proceeding taking place in every court across the country.

And Sara would have the world's eye on her. She was one of the four casualties in a heavily publicized murder of a billionaire, where his son miraculously survived and recently returned. And the architect of that crime (Merlyn) was recently revealed. She's also the sister of the woman who prosecuted Moira Queen. The Moira Queen trial must have got worldwide headlines given the high profile suspect and the 503 deaths.

Think about it... how familiar are you with the family members of the lawyers involved in big criminal/legal cases? Rarely, if at all. Likewise, Sara (along with the ship's crew members) were likely merely mentioned in passing during coverage of its sinking and Oliver's return.

 

[Capt. Marvelous]

Difference is the Gambit sinking was recently brought to the front pages again with Merlyn being revealed as the architect behind the murders.

It really makes the choice of Laurel Lance as prosecutor look even more like a really bad conflict of interest when her sister was among the 4 people supposedly murdered on the Gambit.

 

[Capt. Marvelous]

Yes she got mentioned in the news report about the boat sinking, but that's kind of it. Everyone was more focused on the Queen's, especially after Oliver turned up alive. I kind of think that many people would have forgotten about Sara (which unfortunately happens in real life as well).

Nah. She's a blonde white girl. She'd still get major media coverage in real life.

 

[Mikelus]

They just want her and there's no point trying to talk sense into them.

We'll just have to wait and see but the battle lines are clearly drawn and I hope the showrunners don't continue to force Laurel to be something she's not when they have a perfectly good rendition of that character already.

And there's no point talking to haters that don't want to accept the producers' plan for Dinah Laurel Lance to become the Black Canary, not trusting them, thinking they know better. Sarah's version is fine, but if the producers want Laurel to be the next BC, which would make the character more interesting anyway, then hopefully it will work.

Like many elements of Season 1, it’s another example of giving us not quite exactly what we’d expect. “It’s something that we’ve done all of last season. The first Green Arrow that we met wasn’t Oliver. If you think about it, on the island, it was Yao Fei. The first Deathstroke that we met wasn’t Slade Wilson. The first Merlyn that we met turned out to not be the actual Merlyn the Archer. So, all we’re really doing with Caity’s character is really beginning the story of the Black Canary, in a way that I think people might not be expecting based on the way the comic books go. There’s been a method to our madness and it seems to have pleased people so far, and we hope people continue to go on the ride with us, because it’s a great storyline, there are great twists to it, and it’s going to have a tremendous impact on Katie Cassidy’s character this season,” Kreisberg explained.

http://www.greenarrowtv.com/interview-arrows-producers-talk-expectations-black-canary/14641

As for what this means for Laurel, Kreisberg says, "Everyone knows that Laurel Lance is the Black Canary. That's the way it is in the comic books, but how we get from A to B is the story of our show. In the same way that Oliver, when we meet him, is the vigilante, but this season he's going to becoming the Arrow, that's the step of his journey to eventually becoming the Green Arrow. Laurel Lance right now is a lawyer with a lot of heart and a lot of humanity and courage. But it takes more than that to put on the mask and go out and fight crime. Our series is the evolution of that. People will see how Caity Lotz fits into Laurel's journey along the way. For us, it's very emotional and surprising and exciting. I would say to everybody, we haven't let you down so far. Keep going on this ride with us."

http://www.tvguide.com/news/exclusive-arrow-boss-1068064.aspx

TVLINE | That’s good to hear, because one of my questions was how you planned to make Laurel relevant to this next wave of storytelling...

You know, it’s been somewhat hard, I think, for Katie and us to hear some of the criticisms of her character because we don’t do anything without thinking about it. And one of the great things about having as much success as we had in Season 1 was the freedom to allow things to unfold the way that they should. We’ve always had a fantastic plan for Laurel’s character, and I know that there’s impatience out there in the world to see her “strap on the fish nets” [as Black Canary] but everything we’re doing is all about leading up to that in a the way that we feel keeps it the most realistic and grounded. To take somebody who is a public interest lawyer and turned her into a super hero… you have to go through the paces. So this season we’ve really been putting her through her paces.

http://tvline.com/2014/01/14/arrow-season-2-spoilers-oliver-versus-slade-laurel-felicity-diggle/

 

[iamlegend]

And there's no point talking to haters that don't want to accept the producers' plan for Dinah Laurel Lance to become the Black Canary, not trusting them, thinking they know better. Sarah's version is fine, but if the producers want Laurel to be the next BC, which would make the character more interesting anyway, then hopefully it will work.

Oh Laurel's always been the character that was going to end the day as the Black Canary. The problem is that the writers have done nearly everything possible to make a lot of fans NOT want to see it. You're supposed to build anticipation with a character like that - not dread.

 

[Bathead]

Myself, I don't have a problem with Laurel ending up as BC, because I don't hate her as others seem to, I really don't get why she gets the hate. IMO, it's totally undeserved.

 

[Capt. Marvelous]

I can understand the hate. The character is a mess.

 

[Human Torch]

I'm totally sure it's always been their intention to make Laurel BC.The only question now is whether they'll abandon the plan now (while it makes sense) or later,after the crushing backlash?(When it'll be probably much more contrived)

 

[Nathan]

I have a hard time believing that they are still sticking with the plan, when they make her unlikable, even in the flashbacks. Seriously, what's up with that?

You are supposed to root for a character, feel for them, even when they are at their lowest. But with Laurel, they simply make you dislike her, every way imaginable. That's not how you slowly turn a character into a fan favorite. And again, I don't know if the writers alone are entirely to blame for it. Katie has to be blamed partially as well. She simply lacks the capacity to sell her character as likable.

Should they stick to their guns regardless, I believe they will have a tough time once Laurel is Canary. Because Katie is nowhere near as well trained as either Amell or Lotz. While they can do a good size of their own stunts and action scenes, you'd pretty much have to use a stunt double for Katie, most of the time. Supposedly they cast actors like Caity Lotz, Katrina Law and Michael Jay White, because of their martial arts background, to save their budget and not use stunt doubles in every little scene. So you'll pretty much never see Katie's face in any action scenes, unless they are close ups, inserted into the fight.

 

[DrRocket]

^ all this, the writers even said that they will scrap plans if they are failing and currently laurel is one big fail after another.

Two weeks left till arrow returns!

 

[Capt. Marvelous]

Should they stick to their guns regardless, I believe they will have a tough time once Laurel is Canary. Because Katie is nowhere near as well trained as either Amell or Lotz. While they can do a good size of their own stunts and action scenes, you'd pretty much have to use a stunt double for Katie, most of the time. Supposedly they cast actors like Caity Lotz, Katrina Law and Michael Jay White, because of their martial arts background, to save their budget and not use stunt doubles in every little scene. So you'll pretty much never see Katie's face in any action scenes, unless they are close ups, inserted into the fight.

The Huntress actress wasn't as heavily trained either. Neither was Barrowman. Where was it said that Lotz, Law and White were cast to save budget and not use stunt doubles often?

For contractual and union reasons, stunt doubles are necessary quite often, and Arrow has it's own stunt team anyway.

 

[Matt.S99]

They really ****ed up with Laurel. She was pretty great in season 1. Likeable, useful, and served a purpose. Now she's the complete opposite. I hope they can redeem her before it's too late. (I think it's too late to redeem her so she become BC , but not too late to just make her a likeable character again.)

 

[Nathan]

The Huntress actress wasn't as heavily trained either. Neither was Barrowman. Where was it said that Lotz, Law and White were cast to save budget and not use stunt doubles often?

Only thing I can provide is a Quote, because I wouldn't know where to find the Podcast.

Then in a fan podcast that SA did he said because of budget reasons they started hiring actors with stunt/fight training to save money. Hence the casting of Caity Lotz, Katrina Law and Michael Jae White.

 

[DrRocket]

^ would need another stunt person for laurel, just ship her off to Gotham for the joker to have

 

[Nathan]

Of course every actor needs a stunt double ready for all of the dangerous action scenes. But it's obviously way more immersive, when you see the actor's face and actually see him do the action.

When Oliver fought Grundy, that was actually Amell strapped on the hood of the truck. I doubt you could do that with Katie. Or all of the parkour scenes. That will require a stun double each and every single time.

 

[DrRocket]

^ he speaks the truth

 

[Hush]

You know I'm really glad that the writers have been making as many plans as they have, its refreshing to know they have a plan and that if we are patient it will play out.

 

[Nathan]

And when Plan A fails, there's always a Plan B.

 

[DrRocket]

^ exactly, plan A bombed, lets move on to plan B, keep Sara, ditch laurel

 

[Nathan]

They had a Plan with the List as well, until they ditched that half way. They planned not to have superpowers on the show. Now we had Grundy appear and a Flash pilot is in the works.

 

[DrRocket]

^ ehhh I still think the list has a part to play this season

 

[Infinity9999x]

Myself, I don't have a problem with Laurel ending up as BC, because I don't hate her as others seem to, I really don't get why she gets the hate. IMO, it's totally undeserved.

I wouldn't agree with that. I will say I don't think the character has been as incredibly horrible as some people make it out to be, but Laurel just hasn't been handled very well.

I honestly didn't mind her that much in the first season, but she didn't do much for me. It's been this season that has really made the change from passable to annoying, and it's mostly due to the writers. I somewhat understood the whole "I blame The Arrow for Tommy's death" thing...kind of. But it was pretty weak, and only served to alienate the character from the audience right off the bat in season 2. Adding in the drug story line didn't help either. Granted, the idea of her getting addicted to a substance isn't necessarily bad, but it's more to do with the execution. It's just the fact that the way the character acts when she's on the drugs is very unlikeable, and that doesn't help.

A lot of the ideas this season are like that. Good idea in theory, but poor in execution. Laurel being pissed at Sarah for not telling them she was alive. Totally understandable. She was hut deeply by someone she loved. However, the writers could have written that scene in a way that showcased Laurel's pain and feelings of betrayal better. Instead, she came off more petty, and her anger seemed more akin to a petulant child than an adult who had been honestly hurt by a loved one.

On top of that the writers keep adding little details that, honestly, I have NO IDEA why they felt the need to include. For example the whole "Laurel knew Sarah liked Ollie first" thing. Just...why? Why did that need to be added? It literally adds nothing to the story other than to make Laurel more unlikable. And what purpose does that serve?

All in all, they're just not handling the character well at all. I understand the whole concept of breaking the character down to build her up, but that doesn't mean you make the audience hate the character. I keep using this example, but it's because it's such a damn good one: Jamie Lannister was broken down completely in S3 of GOT, but with every notch he was taken down, he grew MORE likeable. Laurel's doing the opposite.