Arrow Arrow Season 2 Episode 13 "Heir to the Demon" Rate/Review thread

[Gaz0680]

That is predictable only to people with knowledge of the comics or who spend a lot of time online talking with people who have knowledge of the comics. For the other 95% or more of the viewership Sara is the Canary and thus like Oliver cannot die. Therefore for those 95% it would be shocking twist. It's more important to be unpredictable to the vast majority than the obsessed fans.

I don't think it would be a shocking twist even to the 95%. Sara came late to the show which makes it even more the norm for TV shows to kill her off. Few shows
kill off their main cast members from day one.

Laurel, Thea or Felicity dying would be a greater twist than Sara to the general public in my opinion.

Q

 

[Primal Slayer]

Thea or Sara dying would be the painful part for Ollie. And with all the heroes appearing, not all of them can survive. They have spent all this time building Sara up and tearing Laurel down. Killing off Laurel wouldn't tug on the viewers hearts at this moment. Making Sara lovable in ever sense of the word and taking her away would.

 

[mr. peasant]

Killing Sara off would be bad writing because it is predictable. Everyone has seen the whole tear Laurel down, bring Sara in as BC, then kill Sara off and have Laurel become BC angle. A lot of fans still expect this to happen. That wouldn't be either creative or surprising.

That would be like saying that Game of Thrones' adherence to its source material makes it, and stuff like The Red Wedding, boring. Which isn't the case. As others have stated, the bulk of the show's viewing audience is probably not entirely familiar with the source material. Also, this presumes that the point of storytelling is to deliver surprises to the viewers; as oppose to keeping them emotionally invested in the story that's being told.

As for other candidates, I agree that characters like Diggle and Felicity would be more impactful than the likes of say... Roy and Sara. However, the former two hold roles pretty integral to the show's format and are somewhat less disposable than the latter two. More often than not, you don't always need to reach for the biggest gun and go nuclear to achieve a result.

 

[Gaz0680]

That would be like saying that Game of Thrones' adherence to its source material makes it, and stuff like The Red Wedding, boring. Which isn't the case. As others have stated, the bulk of the show's viewing audience is probably not entirely familiar with the source material. Also, this presumes that the point of storytelling is to deliver surprises to the viewers; as oppose to keeping them emotionally invested in the story that's being told.

Of course the point is to keep people emotionally invested and storytelling worth isn't based on surprises.
And adherence to the source material is one of those things where writers for movie or tv adaptations of books are in a no win situation. Adhere too strictly and you are boring, predictable and a copycat, but stray too far from the source and you are basically creating an entirely different story.

In my opinion, the best adaptations are those that stay true to the heart of the story, but also involve a lot of creative licence and even altering character's personalities somewhat to fit the medium being used to tell the story. Prime examples of this would be The Lord of the Rings Trilogy and Game of Thrones tv show.
Both of these adaptations cut out a LOT of characters from the source material..and also varied some significantly. E.g. Cersei and Lord Tywin are both far more likeable in the show than they are in the books (where Cersei is just plain bat ***** crazy essentially) and have more redeeming qualities. Similarly, Catelyn has a smaller role in the show and Robb a bigger one than they do in the books.
An example of a series which stays TOO close to its source material would be the Harry Potter movies. I loved the books, but HATED the movies, which were a virtual regurgitation with little to no creativity or imagination

 

[Ksb36]

There's kind of a double edged sword there. If Slade gives Ollie a choice and he manages to save both, then Slade/Deathstroke will come across as just another pathetic villain who can't carry out a simple plan/threat.
However, if Arrow fails to save both, it would reflect badly on him.

I'm really really hoping they don't go that route of Slade giving Ollie a choice. It would be fairly predictable and boring writing. Besides, Deathstroke should be way more badass.

I really hope Arrow (the show) strays completely from the comic books and carves out its own destiny, which gives the writers more freedom for genuine surprises and creativity.

I want Slade to actually follow through on his threats. He needs to totally upset Oliver's life by the end of the season, in more ways than 1. I'd love too him do all of the following -
1. kill someone (or multiple people) close to Oliver (preferably Laurel who isn't working at all as is and perhaps Moira too - which could be especially poignant if done right).
2. Turn the general populace of Starling city and even Queen Consolidated against Oliver.
3. possibly render the Queen family broke
4. Take a prisoner ( maybe Laurel or Roy) who he will train and convert to a major villain for the future.
5. Cripple some of team arrow - injure Black Canary (Sara) and John Diggle - and frighten the crap out of Felicity.
6. Leave the city shattered, take his prisoner away and disappear for like a whole season, to return just as ollie has finally pulled his life back together and Team Arrow is finally full steam ahead once more.

Forget the comics, the writers should focus on what works well in the show (Team Arrow, Sara as BC, SLADE) and filter out what doesn't ( LAurel, Roy, etc). Manu Bennett is awesome in the role and Slade has been there since basically day one...he would fill the shoes of Arrow's primary nemesis brilliantly. Have him serve as the one wreaking personal havoc on Ollie's life throughout the series, not just as a one season only big bad who dies in the finale. I'd much rather see Slade cause hell then leave for an extended period so the show can involve other villains, but bring him back later at different times in short bursts.

I like the way you think. Slade needs to put the f***ing screws to Oliver. I mean *beat him to a pulp* in a bunch of very personal and special ways. That's what makes good drama. It keeps it interesting for the cast and makes for incredible television. But I don't agree that anyone in the cast needs Killing. They need to be TURNED. That's way more exciting and full of drama.

 

[KingMadness]

By the end of the series, Thea and Moira will have died.

 

[b_boy]

About Sara's fate, they were going to have an episode to serve as a pilot for the flash, this plan has been scrapped because he will get his own pilot, so I think the Birds of Prey episode will be they shot at seeing if a spin off with the BC and Huntress could work. I don't think they kill her this season, maybe a open ending season finale where she's badly hurt and we don't know untill next season the outcome, and that give them time to sort things out.

I see this Arrow and Sara's BC situation similar to the Buffy and Angel situation years ago. Angel was really popular, his character was head to head with Buffy, they were a couple but it was Buffy's show and they need to split the couple to develop her independtly of him, so they gave him his own spin off...

 

[Boy Scout]

I would rather Sara leave the show (either for a spinoff or just because) than die.

 

[Nathan]

We need someone to make a Birds of Prey poster, with Sara, Helena and Felicity.

 

[Boy Scout]

I'm still rooting for Helena to get a new costume.

 

[Nathan]

Would be cool if an update were inspired by this.

 

[Boy Scout]

 

[Human Torch]

I would rather Sara leave the show (either for a spinoff or just because) than die.

Agreed.

Frankly,just killing characters to "up the stakes" is pretty lame.It should have some kind of effect on characters.(Like Tommy did),but I mean they shouldn't just throw a character death in every season final,just to show the season's big bad was a bad***.

 

[Nathan]

I guess emotional trauma could be enough. Like if Slade really manages to corrupt one, and pits one of their own against them. If he just manages to destroy the bond and trust among the members of team Arrow, that could be some long lasting damage.

 

[Boy Scout]

I would prefer that to anyone dying. But if someone absolutely has to die, I hope it's Roy.

 

[Human Torch]

Yeah it'd be much cooler to see someone turn to the Dark Side.


If someone has to die,Moira would probably fit the bill for having the most impact on Ollie and the least need to recur on the show.

I guess it'll be a controversial statement,but.....I think Diggle could probably go as well.He really doesn't have any story obligations beyond going after HIVE (is that what it was?It's been so long...) He served his purpose of getting Ollie set up on the road when he had no one.But his fate now is basically to give brief "Alfredly" advice.Good role for a 70 y/o,not so much for a 40 y/o.

I'm not saying I really want to see either go,(I really liked Tommy,and was sad to see him go) but,if someone needs to go,I think they have the least to contribute going forward.(like Tommy did)

 

[Matt.S99]

I did this. Shameless promotion. Sorry not sorry

Tho I like her look in the show. It's very No mans Land Huntress.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Agreed.

Frankly,just killing characters to "up the stakes" is pretty lame.It should have some kind of effect on characters.(Like Tommy did),but I mean they shouldn't just throw a character death in every season final,just to show the season's big bad was a bad***.

Half the characters would be effected by Saras death. And she doesnt need to die in the final, there is always episode 21.

And the thing about Angel, he and Buffy were nothing alike so he had lots of room to grow. Sara is litterly a female Ollie except they changed out the private bits, don't see them doing anything to differentiate the two, spin off or no spin off.

 

[SpideyFan866]

I would prefer that to anyone dying. But if someone absolutely has to die, I hope it's Roy.

Roy and Ollie are probably the only safe characters.

Roy isn't dying.

 

[Nathan]

Ollie and Sara went through the same hell, but we haven't really had a chance to see what Sara is like when she's not constantly on the run or kicking ass. They can still make her a lot different from Oliver.

Now that she's back and doesn't have to worry about Assassins anymore, I'd like to see her get her life back on track. Like what's she gonna do for a living now?

 

[Boy Scout]

If someone has to die,Moira would probably fit the bill for having the most impact on Ollie and the least need to recur on the show.

I agree, but I like her a lot more than Roy, so if one of them has to go...

I guess it'll be a controversial statement,but.....I think Diggle could probably go as well.

Get out and never come back.

Very nice.

Roy and Ollie are probably the only safe characters.

Roy isn't dying.

I never said otherwise.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Ollie and Sara went through the same hell, but we haven't really had a chance to see what Sara is like when she's not constantly on the run or kicking ass. They can still make her a lot different from Oliver.

Now that she's back and doesn't have to worry about Assassins anymore, I'd like to see her get her life back on track. Like what's she gonna do for a living now?

Well given how they like to give Sara everything from the comics Dinah/BC, probably have her open up a flower shop.

 

[Boy Scout]

She could be a personal trainer.

 

[Nathan]

With her qualifications, it would be great to see her teach self defense.

 

[Capt. Marvelous]

Having Sara rejoin society would be tricky.

It was worldwide news that she died on the boat. We already had the coverage of Oliver's miraculous survival when he was found.

How would they explain Sara coming back from out of nowhere?