The Amazing Spider-Man ASM: Stuff You Didn't Like Thread

[Hotwire]

I get your point, but there's ways of incorporating those things in a good, satisfying way. It's the same concept as a fight scene being a good one or a bad one. A good one will captivate you and keep you on the edge of your seat. A poor one will have you unintentionally laughing.

Very true. I felt Webb did a very good job with this film. My original point was that Chris M was bashing this film for doing things that are commonplace in the genre, rather than how they were actually handled.

People have really been getting on my nerves with just how nit-picky they can be over this film. I'm half expecting someone to complain Peter's shoe was untied in a scene.

 

[Hit-Girl]

Very true. I felt Webb did a very good job with this film. My original point was that Chris M was bashing this film for doing things that are commonplace in the genre, rather than how they were actually handled.

People have really been getting on my nerves with just how nit-picky they can be over this film. I'm half expecting someone to complain Peter's shoe was untied in a scene.

My point was those cliche things wouldn't be so noticeable, or distracting, if they were done better in the first place. If they "meshed" better with the rest of the film. They can jump out at you if they cause a character to act out of character, or break the rules or tone the movie has set. I think that's what Chris was really getting at.

 

[Jexx]

I get your point, but there's ways of incorporating those things in a good, satisfying way. It's the same concept as a fight scene being a good one or a bad one. A good one will captivate you and keep you on the edge of your seat. A poor one will have you unintentionally laughing.

I didn't even notice the cliches until someone pointed it out on here.

Also, I thought that making Connor's new lab in the storm drainage system made sense. He needed a place to transform freely without making it obvious who he was. There are video cameras at Oscorp. None in the drains. He was recording himself to record his thoughts and research (from what I could gather), but I do think he actually left the message for Spider-Man, practically telling him what he was going to do because Connors didn't expect Spider-Man to be able to win against him. Reason why he wanted to turn everyone into a Lizard? Serum was affecting his brain patterns and thoughts and ideas. He has inhuman power? Wanted to make humans better? Make all humans inhumans.

And I'm pretty sure that Gwen developed an antidote based on the research done, and didn't just set it up to be concocted. Or maybe Connors developed one (as you would probably want to develop one before you submit something to human testing).

 

[Hotwire]

I didn't even notice the cliches until someone pointed it out on here.

Also, I thought that making Connor's new lab in the storm drainage system made sense. He needed a place to transform freely without making it obvious who he was. There are video cameras at Oscorp. None in the drains. He was recording himself to record his thoughts and research (from what I could gather), but I do think he actually left the message for Spider-Man, practically telling him what he was going to do because Connors didn't expect Spider-Man to be able to win against him. Reason why he wanted to turn everyone into a Lizard? Serum was affecting his brain patterns and thoughts and ideas. He has inhuman power? Wanted to make humans better? Make all humans inhumans.

And I'm pretty sure that Gwen developed an antidote based on the research done, and didn't just set it up to be concocted. Or maybe Connors developed one (as you would probably want to develop one before you submit something to human testing).

Spidey called her and told her what to do and how to do it.

 

[Hit-Girl]

I'm really just happy that my thread reached 8 pages.

 

[Chris M]

I get your point, but there's ways of incorporating those things in a good, satisfying way. It's the same concept as a fight scene being a good one or a bad one. A good one will captivate you and keep you on the edge of your seat. A poor one will have you unintentionally laughing.

The Joker spilling his plan to Batman in TDKR was frightening, because of the writing and acting. The lizard was goofy throughout ASM. He had a power point presentation on his computer when he was the only person implementing his plans!

And it's interesting becuase he's right, these are standard comic book motifs that are part of the genre. I dont have a problem with any of them, it's just the clumsy way they were (or weren't) explained to us and the fact that they were all used together in quick sucession made it feel lazy.

Other films give us the cliches but still find a way to explain them:
Singer explained to us why Magneto wanted to change the world leaders ("They will return home as brothers. Our cause will be theirs") and it was VERY consistent with his motivation - which we understood and was well established.
Burton established Axis Chemicals as the birthplace of the Joker
Raimi's handling of Doc Ock was so complex you didn't question why he was in the warehouse. We empathised with him.

And yes plot revealing monologes are oftne a necessary evil in action films - but having it pre-recorded and on autoplay (so we dont have to waste time watching Peter do a file search) complete with maps and diagrams of "this-is-what-im-going-to-do" all packed into a 30 second segment? Oh man!

I was half expecting to see Spidermen find the script on his workbench and just flip through to see what he has to do next.

 

[Hit-Girl]

And it's interesting becuase he's right, these are standard comic book motifs that are part of the genre. I dont have a problem with any of them, it's just the clumsy way they were (or weren't) explained to us and the fact that they were all used together in quick sucession made it feel lazy.

Other films give us the cliches but still find a way to explain them:
Singer explained to us why Magneto wanted to change the world leaders ("They will return home as brothers. Our cause will be theirs") and it was VERY consistent with his motivation - which we understood and was well established.
Burton established Axis Chemicals as the birthplace of the Joker
Raimi's handling of Doc Ock was so complex you didn't question why he was in the warehouse. We empathised with him.

And yes plot revealing monologes are oftne a necessary evil in action films - but having it pre-recorded and on autoplay (so we dont have to waste time watching Peter do a file search) complete with maps and diagrams of "this-is-what-im-going-to-do" all packed into a 30 second segment? Oh man!

I was half expecting to see Spidermen find the script on his workbench and just flip through to see what he has to do next.

Good points.

The one thing that the first two Raimi movies did right was they always stuck to a coherent theme, or overall "plan". Everything in the movie (or mostly everything) seemed to lead up and support the climax. That wasn't the case in ASM. It's like the villain story was tacked on to the rest of the movie.

 

[The Guard]

- Conners moving into the sewers to do his work when he had the whole lab to himself. Seriously can ou think of a dumber idea?? Why not just go HOME! Why...errr.... so they can have a cool fight in the sewers of course.

The sewer is where Connors ended up after he transformed back after his initial battle with Spider-Man.

He felt at home there. He's doing his lab work there instead of at his own lab because he was told to clear out, didn't want to submit to what Oscorp wanted, and wanted to keep his work out of their hands.

 

[Shazam]

I WANNA KNOW WHERE PETE BOUGHT HIS CELL PHONE!! LOL!!

He was talking to Gwen while in the sewers???? Are you kidding me?? I drop calls in a school building!!t:

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I'm really just happy that my thread reached 8 pages.

The Avengers Dislike thread is 67 pages.

Just sayin.

 

[Hit-Girl]

The Avengers Dislike thread is 67 pages.

Just sayin.

I know. That thread was my inspiration.

 

[Jexx]

...why can't I understand most of the negative points against this movie?

 

[Chris M]

...why can't I understand most of the negative points against this movie?

Probably cause you enjoyed all of it.

As is your right to do so

 

[Jexx]

My only real complaints are that I feel like Gwen and Peter's relationship happened out of almost nowhere, and that they didn't spend enough time on Peter actually becoming Spider-Man (developing the webshooters, making the costume, and a couple swings through town).

I was hoping for more than just the basic web splatter scene you saw in the commercials and seeing spandex on athletes and then designing it.

 

[Hit-Girl]

My only real complaints are that I feel like Gwen and Peter's relationship happened out of almost nowhere, and that they didn't spend enough time on Peter actually becoming Spider-Man (developing the webshooters, making the costume, and a couple swings through town).

I read one critic's review saying it would have been better if they focused more on what you just said, and cut out all the Oscorp stuff. I think that would have been better, too. More time for everything else. Connor could have just as easily been a college professor and the spider bite could have happened at his college.

 

[Jexx]

I actually would of wanted the stuff I said and the Oscorp stuff, as I thought the Oscorp part was really cool.

I like Oscorp being a huge part of the movie.

 

[Jexx]

and I liked him being a senior in high school and skateboarding and stuff in this one. But that's probably because I'm going to be a senior in high school and I think skateboarding is cool (even if I don't do it).

 

[Spider Edge]

My biggest complaint is how they handled Uncle Ben's death and its aftermath, and how they totally dropped the ball on that aspect.

That's like......the crux.....the heart of the whole story........and they totally messed it up.

Out of all the problems I had with the film, I think that one stands out the most.

 

[Octoberist]

Too many coincidences in the plot.

 

[Zimmy]

Some nitpicks from someone who loved the movie.

(BTW, I laughed out loud on this board when I first saw the suit revealed and hated the mechanical web shooters but thought both worked great in the film, no problems there).

There are a couple major deaths in the film and it seems like a quick notice of it then the next day its business as usual, laughing and fooling around.

The scene in Raimi's first Spider-Man, the long shot of Aunt May almost collapsing when she sees Peter after the murder of Uncle Ben. Just perfect, not a line of dialog needed.

Oscorp's security. You couldn't get into a data center 10 years ago without 100 alarms going off from your presence.
Here is a multi billion dollar research and dev firm and Pete is walking around putting in a few swipes and getting access anywhere.
Where are the radioactive spiders? Third door to your left!

That stuff would be on a separate floor and you would have to pass a few levels of security plus finger print scans at least.
Not here, just next door to the commissary!

I've never seen a high school so empty.

Did they ever explain why the Parker's took off? Were they going to leave and Oscorp turned over his home office?

 

[FrostBite]

The sewer is where Connors ended up after he transformed back after his initial battle with Spider-Man.

He felt at home there.

This. Although, comics or not, I still find it odd that he behaves more amphibious at times than like a lizard, as he seems to find comfort in the sewers much like alleged rumors of alligators in NYC. His skin even looks too moist for a lizard in TASM most are not aquatic in anyway and the tiny few who are still enjoy the land. Ah well.

Either way I assumed this was an incredibly discreet hiding spot where he felt at ease, no one is going to search the sewers. Conners' home or the lab is a bit... public to be working on a doomsday device.

Did they ever explain why the Parker's took off? Were they going to leave and Oscorp turned over his home office?

Pretty sure the hook for the overarching plot is to see exactly what happens to Peter's parents, they've got interest, so that they can develop it in sequels.

 

[Spider Edge]

Some nitpicks from someone who loved the movie.

(BTW, I laughed out loud on this board when I first saw the suit revealed and hated the mechanical web shooters but thought both worked great in the film, no problems there).

There are a couple major deaths in the film and it seems like a quick notice of it then the next day its business as usual, laughing and fooling around.

The scene in Raimi's first Spider-Man, the long shot of Aunt May almost collapsing when she sees Peter after the murder of Uncle Ben. Just perfect, not a line of dialog needed.

Oscorp's security. You couldn't get into a data center 10 years ago without 100 alarms going off from your presence.
Here is a multi billion dollar research and dev firm and Pete is walking around putting in a few swipes and getting access anywhere.
Where are the radioactive spiders? Third door to your left!

That stuff would be on a separate floor and you would have to pass a few levels of security plus finger print scans at least.
Not here, just next door to the commissary!

I've never seen a high school so empty.

Did they ever explain why the Parker's took off? Were they going to leave and Oscorp turned over his home office?

I agree about the death scenes, especially Uncle Ben's. It just felt rushed through, like they included because they had to.

And, in re to Oscorp's security, what about the front desk? In this day and age where we have to go through pat downs and screenings at the airport, you're telling me that a cutting edge, multi-whatever science/industrial corp won't conduct any kind of identity check on its interns?? No id check, now application form or proof. Nope, just walk up to the front desk, lie to them that you're an intern, and take someone else's name badge........

heck, wasn't there a scene ( that was left out of the movie ), where the doorman to the Stacy's apartment building was giving Peter a much harder time about checking his bag??

 

[FrostBite]

My arrogance? Apologies. I assumed that when you used the word "heroism", you meant "heroism", not "My own personal version of heroism that conflicts with the actual definition of said word".

Pretty much. You're forgiven.

So... you wanted me to use the textbook definition of the word then? The one you said doesn't have to be shown on screen for me to recognize it? Nice! Now I get where this is going! t:

If we use the word "hero" and I mean it, it can mean several things as a word. Christ, it can mean a sandwich for God's sake. One of those possible definitions is someone described for their noble attributes. This Peter caught bad guys largely for himself, created a super monster out of his own recklessness and cleaned up his own mess. It's not really heroic to me, it's simply cleaning up your own mess once your realize the gravity of the situation. It's awesome, but not heroic. Sure he made up for it, but he helped cause it. I know that, he knows that, which is why he is pushed so adamantly to find and stop The Lizard. "I have to stop him [...] I helped create him." He doesn't know exactly why he will continue to do is super-heroics after The Lizard or finding Ben's killer. Sure he wants to help people, he's a good kid--he's just not a hero. Much in the same way that Peter wasn't heroic for hunting Ben's killer in the comics. Despite the fact that confronting a known killer is no doubt courageous, and arguably a heroic action due to the courage on display, he is not a heroic person for it because the intention is clouded. He caused the horrible event and then made up for it. It's a step forward, it's not the moment he becomes a hero. He becomes a hero when he makes his promise to Stacy/listens to Ben's voicemail and finally understands his purpose. No longer is it an obligation of guilt, but an obligation derived from his good nature.

As I said before, sure he saves some people... and it's heroic. A heroic deed does not make the individual heroic. Just as an aggressive deed does not make someone hostile in their nature. If Pete goes out to a strip club with Harry when they hit 18, is he a depraved pervert? Herp-da-derp. This entire movie is about becoming a hero not being a hero. It's a learning experience. Which is why many people are so actively engaged with the plot; he's growing. When he saves the child, he is actively discovering himself, he is coming to a revelation, he has not experienced the revelation as of yet. He's learning, he has not learned.

You're arguing that he is courageous, brave, and does the right things. I'm arguing that he is not a heroic individual yet. This plot highly mirrors the ancient Greek/Roman stories of the past following the same "Hero's Journey" that tons of stories have followed before it. While many comic movies cut the chase and end the hero's journey mid-plot making the protagonist heroic from the get-go, this one takes an entire story as it's own hero's journey resulting with Peter becoming a heroic individual at the end.

Either way with this, go on, quote it, flaunt your feathers. I'm done before you get too nasty, this isn't a real debate and I can tell where it's going as I am sure most you have quoted have realized that your train of logic is a linear unwavering line. Heroic is a quality, you're right. One that can describe an action or someone's inherent personality. You insist the former constitutes the latter, I argue that the latter can only be achieved when inner growth has been achieved.

I suppose this is all more for the people lurking on us than it is for you, so I hope you've all enjoyed it SHH readers!

Probably cause you enjoyed all of it.

As is your right to do so

Right. It seems like many people are misconstruing the purpose of this thread, which isn't to debate or fight with people over what you didn't like... it's to vent it here so you don't have to muck up everybody else's good time by harping on the smallest complaints possible.

It's like, a complaint magnet and that's awesome. It keeps all the needless fan gripes to a minimum and keeps people like me (who didn't like it all that much) outside of everybody else's celebration so I don't have to rain all over their parade and sour the mood.

 

[Badfish40oz]

Connors' entire plotline was a complete rehash of Osborn in Raimi's SM. It was jarring at times, especially the scene where he's arguing with himself. I was expecting him to lash out "The HEART Connors! First, we attack his heart!"

Also when he's getting some bad news at some point I expected "You're out, Connors."

Was this somewhat on purpose? There were times in this movie where it felt like it could be an early draft of Raimi's Spider-Man.

 

[Steve Sanders]

Flash wouldn't have gone that far... To me it was understandable that he'd go easy on Peter now, especially since they never really seemed like mortal enemies in the movie anyway. Just seemed like Flash was a dick to mostly everyone, and Peter was one of the few to actually stand up for two of the kids he bullied. I guess I liked that because it seems that in life our most hated enemies can sometimes turn into our most trusted friends, which I've gone through. I'm not expecting Flash to get all "buddy-buddy" with him, but I do understand why Flash changed towards Peter.

Anyways, I didn't like how they briefly showed Norman's face on the screen when Peter was in Oscorp for the first time.

1. It's a screen, where the hell are the shadows shrouding his face coming from?
2. He also seemed to be wearing glasses, which I don't think Norman should need.

Yeah I dont think he would have gone that far either.The Flash in the comics just liked bullying people and making fun of Parker.He wouldnt have gone THAT far.He later on became friends with Peter in the comics so naturally a thing like Peters Uncle dying would make even a jerk like Flash grow up and be more mature towards him.

For me the things I did not like there actually are very few.Unlike the Raimi films this film had far more positives than negatives. The only three things i did not care for was the continuation of the unmasking of him from the Raimi films.I remember once upon a time the green goblin was the only one who knew his identity.Those good old days are overwith as long as sony has their grubby little hands on this franchise.

The only other gripes I have are was it was unnessary for him when getting startled to leap up and stick to the subway ceiling in front of everybody like that.Spider-man had not made his appearance yet but someone down the road would go to the police and an artist could sketch his face and they could identify him in the future when he starts working for The Daily Bugle.bad choice.Should have had him like get startled at home and leap to the ceiling at home or something like that instead. I also was upset they left out the wrestling scene.

Like I said though,at least this film unlike the Raimi films, the positives far outweighed the negatives. so I finally got a much closer thing to the kind of Spider-Man movie i expected to see and had in mind back in 2002.Thank You so much Mark Webb.you delivered.