Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 2

[JewishHobbit]

I've read worse stories than this. Last year's Fear Itself for example and Secret Invasion was worse than this. DC's The Dark Knight Strikes Again was worse than AvX. The Wolverine story where he killed Sabertooth "Evolution" is worse.

Also, I could rattle off about 50 Spider-Man stories that were awful throughout the years - OMD, OMIT, The Clone Saga, Sins Past, Maximum Carnage. That dude's had just as many terrible stories as he's had greatest of the history of comics.

Ultimatum was awful too. I only read it just because I was fascinated by how much negative reviews it was getting. Some of the insane stuff I was reading about it here @ the Hype and around the net, seemed like I had to see it with my own eyes because of how outrageous some of it sounded.

I'll put it to you this way, I can't stand the concept of the Ultimate universe and have no stock in anything that happens to it - but I HATED this story. It was so f***ing awful. If you can make me hate a story and feel bad about actual fans of the characters in the story when I normally could care less about them - Then you have truly written the worst story of all time.

To be completely honest, I liked Ultimatum (what I read of it), Sins Past, the Other, Secret Invasion, Fear Itself, Maximum Carnage, and the Clone Saga all WAAAAAYYYY more than AvX.

I forgot about OMIT and while I hate what it did I'd say it was probably a better story than AvX as well, though I only skimmed it so I can't say for certain.

So yeah, for me, OMD is still the only story worse than AvX.

 

[Franklin Richards]

I dunno. Reed siding with Iron Man always rubs me wrong but dammit, I enjoyed Civil War.


What's wrong with me?

 

[DoomJester]

To be completely honest, I liked Ultimatum (what I read of it), Sins Past, the Other, Secret Invasion, Fear Itself, Maximum Carnage, and the Clone Saga all WAAAAAYYYY more than AvX.

I forgot about OMIT and while I hate what it did I'd say it was probably a better story than AvX as well, though I only skimmed it so I can't say for certain.

So yeah, for me, OMD is still the only story worse than AvX.

I can't tell you what you should or shouldn't like, but it seems like you're a bit too tough on AvX. I don't like any of those more than AvX. Especially Ultimatum and the Other. I really didn't like Fear Itself.

For one thing, AvX isn't over, so give it time-- it could be that the last few issues makes it all worth it. That happens some times right? I think it happened with AvX. Issues 6 and 7 really made me forgive the first few issues. Also, the shipping schedule of AvX is awesome, getting a new issue every two weeks is totally rocking me.

But you could be right to be skeptical of AvX and the somewhat shoddy characterization (especially given the stakes involved)-- AvX could crash and burn. Even if you change your mind and like AvX I'll probably jump on the "AvX was the worst even ever" wagon if they kill Emma-- so keep a spot open for me please.

 

[DoomJester]

Since Scott was on the Marvel NOW promo piece, chances are probably no. The good money is on Emma Frost.

I wanted to clarify-- are you talking about the Marvel Now Promo piece drawn by Joe Q, where "Cyclops" has the X shaped visor? Or was there a new promo piece recently debuted at SDCC? I think that Brevoort has attempted to cast some doubt on that being Scott Summers.

We still have a very prominent hero's costumes being worn by someone other than that hero, and I'm still contending that Bendis' Cyclops will most likely get a costume change.

At the AvX panel one of the editors reiterated that the end of AvX will "piss some people off." So it could be Cyclops' death. (I mean, he's "coming back" anyways...). But it could be that they kill Emma as you suggest. This is the second time an editor has said the ending of AvX will upset some fans a lot. So we'll see what happens. I'm guessing needless dramatic death. Fans will be upset cause the death was needless. Marvel will think fans were upset because it was dramatic...

 

[runawayboulder]

I was referring to the Quesada piece with Cyke's X-visor. It sounds like Marvel is being all smoke an mirrors right now because they have been looking a little predictable.

 

[DoomJester]

I was referring to the Quesada piece with Cyke's X-visor. It sounds like Marvel is being all smoke an mirrors right now because they have been looking a little predictable.

It could be, yeah. I mean, they've been fairly cagey about the event.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I can't tell you what you should or shouldn't like, but it seems like you're a bit too tough on AvX. I don't like any of those more than AvX. Especially Ultimatum and the Other. I really didn't like Fear Itself.

Ultimatum was pretty bad but not this bad (again, from what I read. I skimmed the last half of it). And I actually REALLY enjoyed the Other. I was shocked when I found out it was hated as much as it was. I loved the respect Peter was shown by his fellow heroes in the Marvel Universe. Good story. It also gave him some powers that made perfect sense for his character (night vision, web-vibrations, etc.). The stingers were the only wierd thing I didn't like. And Fear Itself was bad as well but not THIS bad. Not by far.

For one thing, AvX isn't over, so give it time-- it could be that the last few issues makes it all worth it. That happens some times right? I think it happened with AvX. Issues 6 and 7 really made me forgive the first few issues. Also, the shipping schedule of AvX is awesome, getting a new issue every two weeks is totally rocking me.

But you could be right to be skeptical of AvX and the somewhat shoddy characterization (especially given the stakes involved)-- AvX could crash and burn. Even if you change your mind and like AvX I'll probably jump on the "AvX was the worst even ever" wagon if they kill Emma-- so keep a spot open for me please.

Oh, I'm only stating my opinions of AvX from what we've seen so far. I'm very open that things could turn around but I highly doubt it'd go anywhere above mediocre (about on par with Fear Itself). And ironically, Emma's death (if it sticks for more than a few years) would be one of the only things that'd really turn the event into a positive for me.

And I actually HATE the shipping schedual. It's nice getting the parts quickly but not when you're already on a budget. I'm maxed out and suddenly I have to buy two more $4 comics? That's unfortunately equaled me dropping 2 other titles that I was hoping to hang on to to see if they grew on me. At this point I was enjoying those books more than AvX but because of the importance of AvX on the titles I do read I "have" to make that sacrefice. Personally, I can't STAND double shipping on any title, let alone the 4 or 5 a month that Marvel does in the titles I do buy. It's just money grubbing is all it is.

 

[DoomJester]

Ultimatum was pretty bad but not this bad (again, from what I read. I skimmed the last half of it). And I actually REALLY enjoyed the Other. I was shocked when I found out it was hated as much as it was. I loved the respect Peter was shown by his fellow heroes in the Marvel Universe. Good story. It also gave him some powers that made perfect sense for his character (night vision, web-vibrations, etc.). The stingers were the only wierd thing I didn't like. And Fear Itself was bad as well but not THIS bad. Not by far.



Oh, I'm only stating my opinions of AvX from what we've seen so far. I'm very open that things could turn around but I highly doubt it'd go anywhere above mediocre (about on par with Fear Itself). And ironically, Emma's death (if it sticks for more than a few years) would be one of the only things that'd really turn the event into a positive for me.

And I actually HATE the shipping schedual. It's nice getting the parts quickly but not when you're already on a budget. I'm maxed out and suddenly I have to buy two more $4 comics? That's unfortunately equaled me dropping 2 other titles that I was hoping to hang on to to see if they grew on me. At this point I was enjoying those books more than AvX but because of the importance of AvX on the titles I do read I "have" to make that sacrefice. Personally, I can't STAND double shipping on any title, let alone the 4 or 5 a month that Marvel does in the titles I do buy. It's just money grubbing is all it is.

All I can say is so far AvX doesn't seem so horrible. It could go up or down.

You keep wanting Emma to die... Scary man...

As far as the shipping schedule, I can see the budget thing being an issue, and it wouldn't be fair for me to comment on your situation. I've always felt that having to wait a year for a 12 issue series to play out really hurt my interest in comics. A major issue of mine is that I don't want to wait whenever things fascinate me. I'm not impatient in the "honk one second after the light turns green" way, but I just run these comic plots in my head over and over and I find I hate waiting on the comics. I was going crazy with the Millar/Hitch Ultimates delays, and the Whedon/Cassaday AXM delays. Getting these comics one after another like in AvX really is something I've been wanting for a long, long time. We just won't agree on this aspect. Sorry.

When I first started on Hype I was spending so much money a week. I can see how AvX and a bunch of other books double shipping would be a pain at the margins. But it just isn't an issue for me since I don't read a ton of comics anymore. I have to (and do) respect what you are saying but for me the schedule is amazing and I hope it is something other companies mirror-- even if they have to do multiple artists on a book (at one time I used to hate that but I'd trade art consistency for a snappier shipping schedule).

 

[JewishHobbit]

If I didn't have budget issues I'd likely love the bi-weekly shipping same as you. I'm trying to get my buy list down and it may eventually get to that point but I doubt it.

And I disagree with the rotating artists thing. I love it when one creative team sticks to a book. I hate when every other arc are drawn by different people. I don't mind if it's, like, 10 issues then 2 or something, but more than that annoys me. I like consistency.

 

[Franklin Richards]

John Byrne wrote and penciled every issue of his Fantastic Four run. I don't remember him ever being late. Not on Shooter's watch.

 

[Panthro]

At the AvX panel one of the editors reiterated that the end of AvX will "piss some people off." So it could be Cyclops' death. (I mean, he's "coming back" anyways...). But it could be that they kill Emma as you suggest. This is the second time an editor has said the ending of AvX will upset some fans a lot. So we'll see what happens. I'm guessing needless dramatic death. Fans will be upset cause the death was needless. Marvel will think fans were upset because it was dramatic...

That chalk outline looks a lot like Cyclops. Given how much the current powers that be seem to like Emma Frost I have some doubts about them dropping a fridge on her, but I could be wrong (I'm not even a fan of Emma to be honest with you).

 

[Spider-Nerd]

IT looks like I can make out thing's feet and pete's boots in that cover. Could it be an avenger that bites the dust?

 

[DoomJester]

That chalk outline looks a lot like Cyclops. Given how much the current powers that be seem to like Emma Frost I have some doubts about them dropping a fridge on her, but I could be wrong (I'm not even a fan of Emma to be honest with you).

I can't fuel any speculation about who is in a chalk outline. Someone was saying Namor was a good candidate for death-- which works for me, since I don't like him in the X-men. Cyclops would make sense for me as a possible plot outcome-- just because it simply can't be Emma! Also, could be multiple deaths in AvX.

Do the current X writers love Emma? She's one of Marvel's majorly popular female characters I think. Her marketing machine is in full gear, between Reebok sneaker tie-ins, game tie ins, and isn't she going to be in the X-Men First Class sequel? Usually they don't kill off people they market heavily.

I'd prefer not killing anyone, since I do understand that someone out there loves the character that Marvel wants to kill to boost sales. Why do that to a fan?

 

[ssj wolverine]

Killing off Emma is meaningless. Noone gives a #$@% about her. It has to have some impact like Cyke dying.

 

[Havok83]

Killing off Emma is meaningless. Noone gives a #$@% about her. It has to have some impact like Cyke dying.

thats why they would kill her off. She's expendable. Its the reason why they went with Nightcrawler last year

 

[venom892]

Hey I hated that they killed Kurt.That was an awful decision.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Do the current X writers love Emma? She's one of Marvel's majorly popular female characters I think. Her marketing machine is in full gear, between Reebok sneaker tie-ins, game tie ins, and isn't she going to be in the X-Men First Class sequel? Usually they don't kill off people they market heavily.

Death doesn't matter. They can kill her off and have her back within a few months and keep those marketing promotions going strong. I highly doubt them staying gone is a big concern for Marvel. They kill them off and immediately bring them back. They did that exact thing with BOTH deaths in Fear Itself. Bucky died and came back in the very first issue post-FI. Thor came back an arc or two later of his own book.

So it could be Emma for the shock of it and then they could bring her back in an aftermath issue or something stupid like that. So yeah, honestly, even if they do kill her off, I wouldn't get too upset by it until a few months pass and we see what they're going to do about it.

 

[Manic]

Can this event just be over already? Just give Hope the damn Phoenix, make her bring back Kurt & Jean, and show that the whole Phoenix 5 thing was just an illusion Charles put into Scott's head to distract him.

 

[Havok83]

Hey I hated that they killed Kurt.That was an awful decision.

He was still a safe choice. He was a powerful one bc he was a long running character but safe bc no one was using him and he was kinda irrelevant to the overall X-world. Not much changed following his death and not many characters have lamented or used his death to shape their outlook on life and how they proceed forward. I think Wolverine and Scott talked about it in one issue post-SC and then moved on.

 

[Belvedere]

Can this event just be over already? Just give Hope the damn Phoenix, make her bring back Kurt & Jean, and show that the whole Phoenix 5 thing was just an illusion Charles put into Scott's head to distract him.

Agree, twelve issues is overkill. Eight would have been sufficient.

 

[bored]

What about Luke Cage? Now that Bendis is leaving the Avengers line, who is left to man-crush on him?

 

[JewishHobbit]

I man-crush on Luke Cage

 

[Manic]

Is Jeff Parker still using him?

 

[Colossal Spoons]

^He just became the leader of the Dark Avengers

Can this event just be over already? Just give Hope the damn Phoenix, make her bring back Kurt & Jean, and show that the whole Phoenix 5 thing was just an illusion Charles put into Scott's head to distract him.

I like that

 

[JewishHobbit]

^He just became the leader of the Dark Avengers

Luke and Skaar huh? Maybe I should actually thumb through that comic.

I like that

So do too actually. I think that twist would up my opinion of this event big time.