Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

[TheCorpulent1]

Even his She-Hulk was mostly good in its own way, after a bit of a rocky start (although it still doesn't hold a candle to Slott's).

 

[chamber-music]

However the thing is if we want No More Events we have to stop buying them. Marvel is event driven right now. The events are ruling the stories instead of the stories ruling the events. I am an old school X-Men fan from the 80's and the events that I remember and love were ones where the events naturally occurred from the story. Look at Dark Phoenix Saga. That was an event that wasnt an event. It was a natural progression of the story. Jean became Phoenix in issue 101 in 1976 and she died in issue 138 in 1980. Claremont have 4 years to cultivate this story and tell it. This is a commitment to the story that Marvel doesnt have right now.
I keep using Claremont's X-men as an example because to me this was the pinnacle of comic book storytelling. He had his run planned out for hundreds of issues and seeded them with story lines he could use in the future. Are any of the current writers planning out that far?
No.
They can't.
Because the new hot event might erase all the hard work of setting up their series. Marvel needs to get back to telling stories instead of selling comics.

Yes

This is why Greg Rucka and co are leaving the big two.

These big crossover events get in the way of thr storytelling in individual titles.

Marvel is too events driven right now.

I prefer to call his book boring. The first two years were great, the baby issue was amazing, the rest of the series has been mediocre or worse (mostly worse).

I agree.

I think the villains have been very boring in the series over the last few years.

 

[Manic]

I heard Greg Rucka was leaving DC specifically because he agreed to do a bunch of odd job comics for them in exchange for writing Wonder Woman: Earth One, but then they gave WW: Earth One to Grant Morrison instead.

 

[javi1024]

Jeez a Greg Rucka Wonder Woman sounds so much better than a Grant Morrison one.

 

[Donnie Darko]

So now the question on my mind is: How are we going to get Cyclops back as a hero?

I mean, I still think he was/is a hero, but was corrupted by the Phoenix Force. Like everyone has said, this was pretty much all Cap's fault, but since Bendis took over Avengers and their movies became box office hits, they have been Marvel's favorite children, and everything has been Avengers-centric.

Maybe, just maybe, Cable's "mission impossible" X-Force team breaks him out, which is why they are on the run from the Uncanny Avengers.

 

[CConn]

However the thing is if we want No More Events we have to stop buying them. Marvel is event driven right now. The events are ruling the stories instead of the stories ruling the events. I am an old school X-Men fan from the 80's and the events that I remember and love were ones where the events naturally occurred from the story. Look at Dark Phoenix Saga. That was an event that wasnt an event. It was a natural progression of the story. Jean became Phoenix in issue 101 in 1976 and she died in issue 138 in 1980. Claremont have 4 years to cultivate this story and tell it. This is a commitment to the story that Marvel doesnt have right now.
I keep using Claremont's X-men as an example because to me this was the pinnacle of comic book storytelling. He had his run planned out for hundreds of issues and seeded them with story lines he could use in the future. Are any of the current writers planning out that far?
No.
They can't.
Because the new hot event might erase all the hard work of setting up their series. Marvel needs to get back to telling stories instead of selling comics.

Jonathan Hickman has 60+ issues of Avengers planned.

And Geoff Johns had/has even more than that planned for Green Lantern.

Plus Peter David seems to plan pretty far out in X-Factor.

And Grant Morrison planned out 8 years of Batman stories.

And Brubaker had like 7 years of Cap stories planned out pretty resolutely.

And I'm sure there are more I'm not thinking of presently.

 

[CConn]

Jeez a Greg Rucka Wonder Woman sounds so much better than a Grant Morrison one.

No way.

Grant Morrison is going to write zany, sexual, political golden age WW.

While Rucka's WW is great, it's much more straight laced and, dare I say, mundane.

 

[Hawkingbird]

He appears in the Marvel Now (I don't mean the First Class version) covers so I'm assuming all is well.

 

[CConn]

Also, could someone possibly take a time out from the spiteful complaining to give me a rundown of what AvX changed in the Marvel U? I always knew it was going to suck, so I didn't buy any of it.

 

[Hawkingbird]

*coughs* Youtube. What?

 

[Havok83]

Also, could someone possibly take a time out from the spiteful complaining to give me a rundown of what AvX changed in the Marvel U? I always knew it was going to suck, so I didn't buy any of it.

The mutant race is back to their numbers pre-M-Day.

Utopia has been abolished and the Extinction team is extinct.

There will be some merging with the Avengers. Several Xmen will be joining the team including Havok, Rogue, Cannonball and Sunspot

Cyclops and Emma Frost were both arrested

Profesor Xavier is dead

Scarlet Witch has been "redeemed". She is officially a hero again and has rejoined the Avengers

The Phoenix Force supposedly is no more but I doubt that will last

Storm and Black Panther's marriage has been annulled.

These are just off the top of my head

 

[Aesculapius]

- Cyclops murdered Prof X.

- Wakanda hates mutants and is at war with Atlantis.

- Thor is offically able to get his ass kicked by falling shards of Emma Frost and is sadly approaching joke character status.

- Various mutants are now fugitives from this debacle.

 

[CConn]

Wow. That's worse than I thought.

 

[terry78]

Civil War, Dark Reign, Secret Invasion.....nothing spells fun in Marvel like distrust amongst the ranks. And then actually having said distrust be validated due to out of characterization.

 

[javi1024]

No way.

Grant Morrison is going to write zany, sexual, political golden age WW.

While Rucka's WW is great, it's much more straight laced and, dare I say, mundane.

I'm not a fan of Morrison. The only reason I'm interested in the book is because I've always had a slight interest in the character and Azzarello's Wonder Woman made me a fan. Also I really enjoy what Earth One is doing and am eager to see all its future projects. But I'm realy not excited to see a modernized version of the subliminal, fetish fantasy incarnation.

 

[Manic]

Jonathan Hickman has 60+ issues of Avengers planned.

And Geoff Johns had/has even more than that planned for Green Lantern.

Plus Peter David seems to plan pretty far out in X-Factor.

And Grant Morrison planned out 8 years of Batman stories.

And Brubaker had like 7 years of Cap stories planned out pretty resolutely.

And I'm sure there are more I'm not thinking of presently.

Johns, Morrison, and Brubaker had the advantage of being so big that they were allowed to sometimes ignore what other writers were doing. I mean, Morrison and Johns were allowed to completely ignore the New 52 reboot and continue with their comics as if nothing had happened.

Meanwhile, Chuck Dixon no longer works for DC because he refused to make last minute changes to several issues of Robin and Batman & the Outsiders that he'd already written a few months ahead of time.

Remember Dwayne MacDuffie's run on JLA? He kept having characters and entire plot threads taken out of his hands during his run because his plans didn't mesh with events happening in other comics.

If you don't have enough pull, your long term plans on any title could be sacrificed in favor of someone else's event.

 

[CConn]

Johns, Morrison, and Brubaker had the advantage of being so big that they were allowed to sometimes ignore what other writers were doing. I mean, Morrison and Johns were allowed to completely ignore the New 52 reboot and continue with their comics as if nothing had happened.

Johns was one of the mastermind's behind The New 52, so saying his run ignores it is just plain inaccurate.

Meanwhile, Chuck Dixon no longer works for DC because he refused to make last minute changes to several issues of Robin and Batman & the Outsiders that he'd already written a few months ahead of time.

You mean his editors actually tries to edit his book? Those bastards.

Plus I'm pretty sure Dixon doesn't work for anyone now - largely due to several homophobic statements he made that kind of blacklisted him in the industry. It's not like he went over to Marvel or Image and started kicking ass after he left DC.

Remember Dwayne MacDuffie's run on JLA? He kept having characters and entire plot threads taken out of his hands during his run because his plans didn't mesh with events happening in other comics.

And that was quite a shame.

But you don't honestly believe similar situations didn't occur in the '70s, do you?

Sometimes books get ****ed over by bad editorial decisions, yes. And I'm not apologizing for it at all, but it's certainly nothing new, and it's certainly nothing you can ever 100% correct. Poor performance and foolish decisions exist in every profession, business, and creative enterprise known to man. It just comes with the territory of, yknow, being a human being.

If you don't have enough pull, your long term plans on any title could be sacrificed in favor of someone else's event.

It could be, sure. But there are plenty of examples where it hasn't been too.

 

[Manic]

So long as you acknowledge that it happens. That was the point in my post.

 

[runawayboulder]

Brubaker seems like he's been phoning in the last year's worth of Cap stories.

 

[javi1024]

Brubaker seems like he's been phoning in the last year's worth of Cap stories.

Well he wanted to tell different kinds of stories from his previous volume since Winter Soldier is following those. I've liked his stuff with Codename Bravo and the Scourge arc. It's not as good as his old stuff but I still like it.

 

[Doomed_hero]

ok so let me get this straight. Cap forces Cyclops out of Utopia and puts him on the run when his plan was to use the pheonix in Hope to bring back all mutants. Cap and iron Man then create a machine that ends up giving Scott and 5 other the power of the pheonix and they are slowly corrupted by it and it makes Scott kill the Professor. In the end they beat scott and...use the pheonix to bring back all the mutants. So now the man who worked his ass off to save mutant kind is in jail for something iron man and cap are responible for, Wanda who killed many avenger members and caused M-Day in the first place is a good guy, Wolverine who has killed and murdered more people then I can count and still does is going to be leader of a avengers team and basically the leader of the x-men? What the **** marvel

 

[terry78]

Cyclops is not the "cool" character. That is all there is to it.

 

[Manic]

ok so let me get this straight. Cap forces Cyclops out of Utopia and puts him on the run when his plan was to use the pheonix in Hope to bring back all mutants. Cap and iron Man then create a machine that ends up giving Scott and 5 other the power of the pheonix and they are slowly corrupted by it and it makes Scott kill the Professor. In the end they beat scott and...use the pheonix to bring back all the mutants. So now the man who worked his ass off to save mutant kind is in jail for something iron man and cap are responible for, Wanda who killed many avenger members and caused M-Day in the first place is a good guy, Wolverine who has killed and murdered more people then I can count and still does is going to be leader of a avengers team and basically the leader of the x-men? What the **** marvel

YOUR LOGIC HAS NO PLACE AT MARVEL COMICS!

 

[Donnie Darko]

Cyclops is not the "cool" character. That is all there is to it.

Cyclops is actually cool as ****.

 

[terry78]

Yes, he is. But compared to the "I don't give a ****" mindsets of a Wolverine or an Iron Man....