Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

[runawayboulder]

But what mental powers did the Sentry ever have?

 

[moraldeficiency]

You do realize that Bendis is only ONE of the writers responsible for this and that he didn't even write this issue... right? The blame goes to all of them, not just Bendis.

And yeah, I like the result of what's happened but it's minor compared to how horrible the rest of the event was. I can't wait to hear Marvel tell us how amazing it was though and how everyone loved it

The main points of the event followed the standard bendis formula for all his events, the outline had to be his or someone is copying him.

But yes, I do find the "blame" goes to all of them, that's probably why this has been as I said the best event that marvel has done since it got out of the space game. If it was all bendis most of the mid issues would be people saying "the phoenix is coming?" "the phoenix is coming!" "It's really coming for reals?" "It's really coming for reals.".

Compared to Siege, Fear Itself, Schism, hell most everything I could think of the characterization and events were spot on. I mean Scott's been going down the ultra dick road for years with a slight detour during Whedon's run. The phoenix with the exception of rachael always makes people pretty power crazy. Namor likes to destroy stuff. Emma and Majik have been pretty unhinged for a while. Colossus has been more of a jerk since he got his dragon balls power up. Nice to see professor X stand up for what's right and go down like a hero. BP and storm are finally and thankfully over. Then you've got things like Atlantis and Wakanda may go to war which would be awesome. The X-Men can finally change their tune of "no one pays attention to the plight of the mutants" and maybe start being likable again. Havok is going to be a leader once more (always thought he was pretty damn awesome). Spider-Man actually did something in an event and something that really fit with his character. I don't mind thor getting kicked around if it's by someone with galactus level abilities so that's fine. Yes I called the beginning and end the moment this was announced (the bendis formula at work) but the meat and potatoes issues in between were actually pretty good and had real relevance and change that I like and have been waiting for. So yeah, over all a much better event than I expected with better characterization.

 

[moraldeficiency]

But what mental powers did the Sentry ever have?

A lot of people thing addiction is mainly genetic.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

But what mental powers did the Sentry ever have?

Didn't the Sentry/the Void have basically whatever power he wanted? I thought that was the point of the character. That's why the only thing that could kill him was his own suicidal desire.

 

[JewishHobbit]

The main points of the event followed the standard bendis formula for all his events, the outline had to be his or someone is copying him.

But yes, I do find the "blame" goes to all of them, that's probably why this has been as I said the best event that marvel has done since it got out of the space game. If it was all bendis most of the mid issues would be people saying "the phoenix is coming?" "the phoenix is coming!" "It's really coming for reals?" "It's really coming for reals.".

Compared to Siege, Fear Itself, Schism, hell most everything I could think of the characterization and events were spot on. I mean Scott's been going down the ultra dick road for years with a slight detour during Whedon's run. The phoenix with the exception of rachael always makes people pretty power crazy. Namor likes to destroy stuff. Emma and Majik have been pretty unhinged for a while. Colossus has been more of a jerk since he got his dragon balls power up. Nice to see professor X stand up for what's right and go down like a hero. BP and storm are finally and thankfully over. Then you've got things like Atlantis and Wakanda may go to war which would be awesome. The X-Men can finally change their tune of "no one pays attention to the plight of the mutants" and maybe start being likable again. Havok is going to be a leader once more (always thought he was pretty damn awesome). Spider-Man actually did something in an event and something that really fit with his character. I don't mind thor getting kicked around if it's by someone with galactus level abilities so that's fine. Yes I called the beginning and end the moment this was announced (the bendis formula at work) but the meat and potatoes issues in between were actually pretty good and had real relevance and change that I like and have been waiting for. So yeah, over all a much better event than I expected with better characterization.

Wow, you and I remember Avengers vs. X-Men very differently.

In my opinion this has 100%, hands down been the worst event and possibly even story that Marvel has released in the 21 years that I've been reading (challenged only by OMD). The characterisations are all off and horrid. The story beats kept going in worse and worse directions to the point of being rediculous. There was no character development in the story, only destruction, and only one good thing came out of it but it was so overshadowed by the bad that I... hardcore X-Fan that I am... don't even care about it.

And if Bendis were writing this story alone it would have been 8 issues at most (cutting a lot of the crap out) and it certainly would have been a better read. Bendis' worst event or story in general wasn't anywhere NEAR as bad as this story.

 

[runawayboulder]

Fear Itself was way worse than AvX but granted, AvX is near the bottom of the list of Marvel events since 04. I don't really factor in OMD because it was self contained to the Spider-Man books.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Fear Itself was mostly Matt Fraction's monster.

 

[Havok83]

Fear Itself was mostly Matt Fraction's monster.

and he surprisingly wrote some great issues of Uncanny for that, possibly among his best (although I guess Gillen gets some of that credit)

 

[TheCorpulent1]

He wrote some truly awful Thor issues for it, unfortunately.

 

[runawayboulder]

Journey into Mystery and Avengers Academy were the only books that were worth a damn during Fear.

 

[Specter313]

I don't know if you've been reading X-Factor but Polaris is pretty crazy again.

Sonofabiscuit. I haven't really touched X-Factor since Schism. I should've known it was only a matter of time before Lorna went nuts again.

In her defense, she just learned she [blackout]killed her parents[/blackout] so I think she deserves some leeway. And it looks like Siryn already cured her of it, so she should be better by next issue.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Wow, you and I remember Avengers vs. X-Men very differently.

In my opinion this has 100%, hands down been the worst event and possibly even story that Marvel has released in the 21 years that I've been reading (challenged only by OMD). The characterisations are all off and horrid. The story beats kept going in worse and worse directions to the point of being rediculous. There was no character development in the story, only destruction, and only one good thing came out of it but it was so overshadowed by the bad that I... hardcore X-Fan that I am... don't even care about it.

And if Bendis were writing this story alone it would have been 8 issues at most (cutting a lot of the crap out) and it certainly would have been a better read. Bendis' worst event or story in general wasn't anywhere NEAR as bad as this story.

I haven't finished it, granted, went to 10 and lost interest. The ending was a bit obvious, well it was from the start but that's five issues longer than any event Marvel had me on since conquest.

I thought the characterizations weren't nearly as off, I mentioned them in the last post so I won't repeat them.

I think there was character development though. The avengers really saw the X-Men as people to consider in things and joining with them later felt like something long awaited. The X-Men finally saw that only caring about their "race" can lead to some nasty consequences. Everyone finally understood cyclops has become a massive dick. Spider-Man was shown as a competent mentor and actually effectual. BP and Storm finally reached the right conclusion. Wanda's a good guy again (yay!). I've been a X fan but tuned out over the years as they've gotten progressively more whiney and less fun but I think I may be able to read them again so we do see the outcome differently.

Perhaps but I promise you, based on my never fails bendis formula, he laid the event out. House of M was far worse. Actually all bendis events have been far worse with worse characterization. Also crappier action.

All this in my opinion of course.

 

[Anubis]

Wait, how did AvX end?

 

[javi1024]

Wait, how did AvX end?

Spoiler

Hope and Wanda were able to weaken Scott and Hope stole the Phoenix Force. Then they say "no more Phoenix" and mutants get their powers back. Scott's in a ruby prison. The end.

 

[Anubis]

That sounds.....about what I expected. That being.......stupid.

 

[Hawkingbird]

Wonder how 'ol Scotty is going to get out of this one. Shame, he never used to be such an idiot. Granted he was grumpy, but he had heart.

 

[chamber-music]

Wonder how 'ol Scotty is going to get out of this one. Shame, he never used to be such an idiot. Granted he was grumpy, but he had heart.

I think it depends if Marvel want to keep Scott in the doghouse or not.

Magneto has murdered a whole bunch of people and he gets welcomed back to the X-Men fold every 10 years or so.

 

[Havok83]

Wonder how 'ol Scotty is going to get out of this one. Shame, he never used to be such an idiot. Granted he was grumpy, but he had heart.

well to me I dont think he is 100% at fault. People shouldnt ignore the fact that EVERYTHING he did in the 2nd and 3rd Act was heightened by the PF. He would NEVER go around destroying cities and lose his damn mind like that had he not had the PF to corrupt and amplify his rage. And he never would have bonded with it had Iron Man not fractured it. There's plenty of blame to go around for how things went down and I hate how Cyclops is the convenient scapegoat for this event.

 

[The Batman]

^ This.

The heroes bend over backwards for Jean and Wanda, two chicks who caused mass destruction. Jean took out a SOLAR SYSTEM and people went to bat for her.

Cyclops destroys cities and kills one guy in self defense, all while under the influence of a alien creature that was forced on him due to the actions of someone else, nevermind that he only caused damage in response to people trying to attack him. And now he's the one who's gotta sit in prison? I hope he breaks himself out.

 

[terry78]

People in that universe just wait for reasons to hate Cyclops though.

 

[Dangerman]

I am just calling this book Lubeless in Summer because it is a shame how they have written Scott as of late. They just bent him over the past few years like he was in prison.

 

[roach]

^ This.

The heroes bend over backwards for Jean and Wanda, two chicks who caused mass destruction. Jean took out a SOLAR SYSTEM and people went to bat for her.

Cyclops destroys cities and kills one guy in self defense, all while under the influence of a alien creature that was forced on him due to the actions of someone else, nevermind that he only caused damage in response to people trying to attack him. And now he's the one who's gotta sit in prison? I hope he breaks himself out.

as was said before there was a lot of mischaracterizations in this series. Whoever wrote this series must have only read DPS and nothing else.

 

[Manic]

There was a point where I thought about buying this miniseries, but everything I kept hearing about it made it abundantly clear that nobody involved in writing it has read an X-Men story related to the Phoenix outside of the Dark Phoenix Saga. There are no references to Rachel Summers using the Phoenix Force for several years with no problem, Jean gradually tapping into the Phoenix Force more and more long after the DPS, that time Jean used the Phoenix Force to save Manhattan from Xorn, Hope using the Phoenix Force to save San Francisco from an sentinel invasion, that time Professor X controlled the Phoenix Force, or the extended time the Stepford Cuckoos were using part of the Phoenix Force. It was all "OMG, the Phoenix is coming back to Earth for the first time since Jean was the Dark Phoenix!" And for some reason, it was destroying planets along its path to Earth even though the Phoenix should be completely benign when it doesn't have a host.

And that's without getting into the bullcrap way the heroes started fighting one another.

 

[chamber-music]

If you want to see the Dark Phoenix Saga remade well read Uncanny X-Force: Dark Angel Saga. Rick Remender knew not how to toss characterization out the window to advance the plot.

 

[roach]

There was a point where I thought about buying this miniseries, but everything I kept hearing about it made it abundantly clear that nobody involved in writing it has read an X-Men story related to the Phoenix outside of the Dark Phoenix Saga. There are no references to Rachel Summers using the Phoenix Force for several years with no problem, Jean gradually tapping into the Phoenix Force more and more long after the DPS, that time Jean used the Phoenix Force to save Manhattan from Xorn, Hope using the Phoenix Force to save San Francisco from an sentinel invasion, that time Professor X controlled the Phoenix Force, or the extended time the Stepford Cuckoos were using part of the Phoenix Force. It was all "OMG, the Phoenix is coming back to Earth for the first time since Jean was the Dark Phoenix!" And for some reason, it was destroying planets along its path to Earth even though the Phoenix should be completely benign when it doesn't have a host.

And that's without getting into the bullcrap way the heroes started fighting one another.

and did Jean ever show up???
You'd think this would attract her attention