The Dark Knight Rises Batman 3: Where does the story go from here?

[Jack]

We can speculate all we want and try to determine where the next movie is going to take our main character and the other characters the franchise has already established, but in the end we all know that what Nolan gives us will surely be gold. The man is a genius, unsurpassed in genuine intellect by todays directors (JJ Abrams is the only exception imo) and has yet to make a bad movie. What he gives us we will all love, plain and simple. Even if batman dies, which im sure he wont, it would be for a good cause withing the confines of the trilogy Nolan has given us. All will be good, so rest easy and stay thirsty my friends.

Excellent.

 

[batman11]

No response to my long ass post? Not even a thumbs down? I guess that's what happens when you write a freakin essay. LOL t:

 

[PreK]

I think this is a very valid point. Had Tim Burton definitively ended Batman Returns, there would have been no way for Joel and his boys to reck the franchise. He would have had a separate beast that failed on its own, rather than drag down what was then a profitable enterprise. It reminds me of how Nolan and Bale both said that their Batman would never show up in any Justice League film and that if Warner put out a JL film that featured Batman, it certainly wouldn't be the Batman from the Nolanverse. It is clear that Nolan wants to retain realism, avoid the pitfall of the "never ending battle against the forces of evil," and prevent other people from messing up his legacy. I wonder how angry Tim Burton gets every time someone mentions Batman & Robin, in connection to his two films.

I'm dubious as to people actually associating the two as the same world. They may have shared some supporting cast members, but their two universes are distinctly unique to each director's vision.

 

[The ?ion]

Like it or not, Forever is a direct sequel to Returns (Tim Burton was even a producer in name). And as we all know, B&R was a sequel to Forever. The same Alfred, same Comissioner Gordon. It is the same universe, even though Joel came in and really made it...sappy.

 

[souvlaki]

It's loose continuity, but the same universe. Batman Returns stylistically looks completely different from Batman and those were done by the same director. Just because Schumacher took a different approach in how he tackled Gotham and the general tone of the movie doesn't mean they are two separate universes. If stylistic differences were the only criteria for a separate universe than Batman would be more or less rebooted every time a new writer/artist took over the comic book. Schumacher using actors from Burton's film and making references to past films to me is more than enough proof that they were direct sequels.

 

[Bat-Mite]

Like it or not, Forever is a direct sequel to Returns (Tim Burton was even a producer in name). And as we all know, B&R was a sequel to Forever. The same Alfred, same Comissioner Gordon. It is the same universe, even though Joel came in and really made it...sappy.

It's really hard to associate the two, though. Schumacher had some similar statues to those seen in the Burton films, but Burton's movies had a noir setting and a gothic, wintery world's fair setting. Schumacher's movies were both a neon clusterf***. Also, batnipples.

There also aren't any direct references to the Burton films. There are indirect references to Joker and Catwoman, but that's it. Hell, the argument could be made that Billy Dee Williams should have been Two-Face if they were trying to strongly tie it to Burton's films. They didn't even use the same theme music, except for in the trailers.

 

[PreK]

Like it or not, Forever is a direct sequel to Returns (Tim Burton was even a producer in name). And as we all know, B&R was a sequel to Forever. The same Alfred, same Comissioner Gordon. It is the same universe, even though Joel came in and really made it...sappy.

Again, I really find it hard to believe people who remember all 4 films would think they're all part of the same universe. The Bond franchise has shared cast members for decades, but audiences are cognitive to stylistic and timeline alterations.

Gotham alone, sets the two directors' films apart. They do not remotely resemble one another. Burton may have put his artistic style into overdrive with his sequel, but it wasn't such a tumultuous change that it took viewers out of the experience. If you go from BR to BF, or even B&R, that's exactly what happens.

 

[Lungrocket]

Perhaps, but I guess we wont know for sure until we know plot details...everything at this point is speculation anyway. On a side note, I got the heavy impression from Rachel's note to Bruce in TDK that confirmed that Bruce would be unable to give up Batman.

I seriously doubt Nolan is going to end up having Bruce die or give up the mantle in TDKR.

"Unlike the comics, these thing don't go on forever in film and viewing it as a story with an end is useful," Nolan said. "Viewing it as an ending, that sets you very much on the right track about the appropriate conclusion and the essence of what tale we're telling."

How can that be missinterpreted? He's saying the comics go on forever, meaning Batman's journey in the comics are endless. But film is limited as you only have a certain amount of time, so he will end the story.

Those are heavy words by Nolan. How can one read that and expect it to continue the way it always did? It wont. Batman is finishing his journey, one way or another. That much we do know.

 

[StorminNorman]

I would be utterly shocked if The Dark Knight Rises ends this Batman's story (i.e. ends with Batman being retired/dead/as an all powerful God). An overall story? A character arc? Definitely. The entire "career" of the character? Not at all.

If that's the case then all the trust comic book fans have placed in Nolan has been misplaced.

 

[returntovoid]

I would be utterly shocked if The Dark Knight Rises ends this Batman's story (i.e. ends with Batman being retired/dead/as an all powerful God). An overall story? A character arc? Definitely. The entire "career" of the character? Not at all.

If that's the case then all the trust comic book fans have placed in Nolan has been misplaced.

I think Batman should continue on but be more of an urban legend/creature of the night not the accepted Spiderman or Superman. He should become the consumed fully fleshed out Batman we know and love from the comics that broods in the Batcave and only has a relationship with a f'ed up woman like Selina Kyle/Catwoman since his Bruce Wayne persona will be more of a businessman that takes part in humanitarian causes.

I'd like to thank user J. Custer for suggesting the urban legend theory.

 

[StorminNorman]

I agree to the extent that I think Nolan's Batman - even after TDK - is still growing into the true role of Batman (think B:TAS Batman).

Personally I would love to see what another director can do with a new trilogy after Nolan building on the franchise. I want to see Robin on film in a new trilogy. I would like to see more comic book villains in a new trilogy. I would like to see a new trilogy more Loeb-based than Nolan's seemingly more Miller-based Batman (yes, yes I know Nolan references The Long Halloween and what not).

I still think the best Batman we have seen on screen this decade was Michael Fox's Racer X.

 

[Lungrocket]

I would be utterly shocked if The Dark Knight Rises ends this Batman's story (i.e. ends with Batman being retired/dead/as an all powerful God). An overall story? A character arc? Definitely. The entire "career" of the character? Not at all.

If that's the case then all the trust comic book fans have placed in Nolan has been misplaced.

So when a comic book writer takes chances and creates THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS its okay to do, but when a filmmaker wants to take liberties and do something different and fresh, he shouldn't be allowed because it wasn't in the comics... Is that what your telling me?

And I'm a comic book fan. But you can speak for yourself when you feel us fans have misplaced trust in Nolan.

He's a master storyteller. He's honored Batman very well so far and given us two respectable films. He brought Batman out of the mire that was Schumacher territory. If Nolan wants to do something different to tell his story that wasn't canon, let him bloody do it.

He's earned enough trust to take a chance.

 

[Bat-Mite]

But there wouldn't be a point in calling the movie The Dark Knight Rises if this were the end of Batman's life/career. I'm sure this will be Nolan's last Batman film, but I doubt it will be the end of Batman in the world set up in his films. It will just be the end of his Batman's days as a rookie.

 

[PreK]

I still think the best Batman we have seen on screen this decade was Michael Fox's Racer X.

 

[StorminNorman]

So when a comic book writer takes chances and creates THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS its okay to do, but when a filmmaker wants to take liberties and do something different and fresh, he shouldn't be allowed because it wasn't in the comics... Is that what your telling me?

And I'm a comic book fan. But you can speak for yourself when you feel us fans have misplaced trust in Nolan.

He's a master storyteller. He's honored Batman very well so far and given us two respectable films. He brought Batman out of the mire that was Schumacher territory. If Nolan wants to do something different to tell his story that wasn't canon, let him bloody do it.

He's earned enough trust to take a chance.

The Dark Knight Returns was an Elseworld release that had nothing to do with Batman comics. The third Nolan film will be the only Batman film released for years. Do you see the difference?

The notion that you can completely summarize the character in the process of The Dark Knight Rises is, I believe, unrealistic; there is so much about the character that this film can't cover (like Robin). To end the character at this point in his career would display a less-than-adequate understanding of the greater character. The character of Batman is deeply complicated and Nolan holds the responsibility of the greater character in his hands - WB will make sure of that.

But I don't think there is any chance Nolan ends the character in this movie. Because he is a master storyteller. Because he respects the character.

 

[Jack]

So when a comic book writer takes chances and creates THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS its okay to do, but when a filmmaker wants to take liberties and do something different and fresh, he shouldn't be allowed because it wasn't in the comics... Is that what your telling me?

And I'm a comic book fan. But you can speak for yourself when you feel us fans have misplaced trust in Nolan.

He's a master storyteller. He's honored Batman very well so far and given us two respectable films. He brought Batman out of the mire that was Schumacher territory. If Nolan wants to do something different to tell his story that wasn't canon, let him bloody do it.

He's earned enough trust to take a chance.

Sounds like someone's got the chubs for Nolan. Don't worry I do too, lol.

I have complete trust in Nolan, but I agree with Norman, I think Nolan's going to complete the trilogy...by completing character arcs, etc.....not kill off or put an 'end' to Batman.

That just doesn't feel right, and isn't and never has been true to the character of Batman, especially to Nolans interpretation of the character...watching BB and TDK one watches a naive Bruce accepting his sorrowful but required role as Batman...something HE (if not Gotham) will always need.

He can end the story without ending Batman. I'll love whatever he does, but I'm also looking forward to what the next Batman film franchise has to offer as well.

Anyways, when I first heard the title of the new movie was "The Dark Knight Rises", some story elements popped into my head:

1. Bruce's full commitment/understanding of what "Batman" really is and what it requires

2. The end of....basically 'Year One'...for lack of better term. I think in TDK, only 6-7 months had passed since BB, right? I could be wrong on that...

3. Batman somehow being redeemed from being a fugitive...maybe not completely exonerated, but at least called upon to act on some new threat,
Batman becoming the hero that Gotham needs right now.

To me, Batman being killed off or quiting...seems completely out of character/unnecessary to the story, and way too cheap for someone of Nolan's caliber to employ.

I concede obviously big things are going to happen....especially after the stakes of the previous film. No wonder Nolan had such a hard time cracking the story right?

But you know...as long as Bruce Wayne is Batman...and is still basically a little boy who lost his innocence at 8 years old...and decided to do something positive about it...I'll enjoy Batman for the rest of my life.

Side note...I JUST discovered Batman the Brave and the Bold cartoon....and absolutely love it!

.......uh...


The End

 

[StorminNorman]

Go watch the scene where Racer X rescues Taeajo.Michael Fox is playing Conroy's Batman.

 

[Jack]

Go watch the scene where Racer X rescues Taeajo.Michael Fox is playing Conroy's Batman.

*Matthew Fox*

 

[PreK]

Go watch the scene where Racer X rescues Taeajo.Michael Fox is playing Conroy's Batman.

It's not unfounded that he may display some qualities of Bats, but to say he's the most fully formed actor to display the character seems grossly exaggerated.

This is from someone who's not even a big fan of Bale's performance, too.

 

[StorminNorman]

*Matthew Fox*

Best. Typo. Ever.

It's not unfounded that he may display some qualities of Bats, but to say he's the most fully formed actor to display the character seems grossly exaggerated.

This is from someone who's not even a big fan of Bale's performance, too.

I chose my words wisely. Batman, not Bruce Wayne. Racer X carried a lot of the same emotion baggage (you know, with family guilty and trying to beat the bad guys on his mind), so I think the entire package is superior. Add in the Bale bat growl and Fox definitely takes the cake in my book.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

There's a difference between "the end" and the end.

When Nolan refers to ending his story, I can't see any reasonable person not being able to understand what that means.

To this day, people talk about wishing Bryan Singer had finished his X-Men trilogy. That doesn't mean these people were expecting (or wanting) to see him kill the X-Men, or have Wolverine retire. And even though I really didn't like The Last Stand at all, for the most part, Ratner ended Singer's X-Men story (with the exception of the cheap "their powers are coming back!" out). Wolverine has found peace as a leader and a member of a family, Rogue's story has ended (lamely), human-mutant relations are improving (what with Beast's appointment), etc. It's very much THE END. But not...the end. There is more than enough room for further stories, but THAT story is done.

Same goes for Batman.

What Nolan is saying when referring to the neverending nature of comics is that, for comic book writers, there's often not a pressing need for "an ending" because even when a story arc ends, there's usually some sort of segue or minor plot-thread that is spun into the next story, and the cycle continues. It's like how Grant Morrison is finally ending his epic, years-long Batman story, but it's also seguing into another Batman story. And as a filmmaker, Nolan probably doesn't want to do that. It's entirely reasonable for him to try and tie up as many loose ends as possible, so that the audience's conversation after it's over is "Wow, what a great story!" instead of "So, do you think that guy who asked all those questions will become the Riddler?" (which fanboys are bound to do anyway )

It's funny, because I (like many, I'm sure, and I suspect Nolan as well) view this trilogy not as "the beginning, middle, and end" of Batman's career, but as "the beginning, middle, and end" of the beginning of Batman's career. These are still his formative years, and I think (especially with the title of TDKR), the "conclusion" that Nolan is racing towards is Batman's ascension to the LEGEND that Ra's spoke of in movie 1.

EDIT: In other words, what Jack just said above. Haha. And heck yeah, Brave and the Bold is the bee's knees.

 

[PreK]

I chose my words wisely. Batman, not Bruce Wayne. Racer X carried a lot of the same emotion baggage (you know, with family guilty and trying to beat the bad guys on his mind), so I think the entire package is superior. Add in the Bale bat growl and Fox definitely takes the cake in my book.

I know what you're saying, but the balance is more than a bit shifted to one side there. It's completely unfair to judge both actors on the same merits when Fox didn't actually have to play Bats. Embodying similar qualities in a particular scene is one thing. Carrying out that depiction across an entire movie involving an entire arc, is another.

 

[bullets]

It's funny, because I (like many, I'm sure, and I suspect Nolan as well) view this trilogy not as "the beginning, middle, and end" of Batman's career, but as "the beginning, middle, and end" of the beginning of Batman's career.

It sounds like the end of the beginning and the title heavily suggests that.

 

[Lungrocket]

But there wouldn't be a point in calling the movie The Dark Knight Rises if this were the end of Batman's life/career.

Not true at all. Rises could mean Batman becomes Gotham's savior and legend upon his sacrificing himself for his city. It could also be a metaphor for his soul.

I'm sure this will be Nolan's last Batman film, but I doubt it will be the end of Batman in the world set up in his films. It will just be the end of his Batman's days as a rookie.

New director. New actors. New writers. New approach. Reboot. A new director will want to leave his own stamp on it. They won't continue on in Nolan's world. How far can it go before you need to start schewing to the more fantastical elements? Not everything works for Nolan's reality.

 

[Lungrocket]

The Dark Knight Returns was an Elseworld release that had nothing to do with Batman comics.

What does that have to do with anything? You think because its CANON thats the only way you can go? No. It's limited thinking.

Nolan can pull inspiration from where he pleases. It's his story, wether you like it or not. It doesn't have to strictly adhere to the comics.

The third Nolan film will be the only Batman film released for years. Do you see the difference?

Yes. I see that as a sign for doing something great. Not simply repeating formula.

The notion that you can completely summarize the character in the process of The Dark Knight Rises is, I believe, unrealistic; there is so much about the character that this film can't cover (like Robin).

Maybe Nolan will use Robin? Maybe he won't. But did you ever stop and think that these characters don't necessarily have to exist it Nolanverse?

You keep treating the films as if they are comic canon. There is no rule book given that says so.

To end the character at this point in his career would display a less-than-adequate understanding of the greater character. The character of Batman is deeply complicated and Nolan holds the responsibility of the greater character in his hands - WB will make sure of that.

No. It would just end his journey earlier than you would like. That's all. His understanding of the character has been more than adequate.

WB isn't going to stop Nolan telling the story he wants to make. His last Batman film made north of a billion dollars. They know he will tell a good story regardless wether its something the fans want.

But I don't think there is any chance Nolan ends the character in this movie. Because he is a master storyteller. Because he respects the character.

“Without getting into specifics, the key thing that makes the third film a great possibility for us is that we want to finish our story. And in viewing it as the finishing of a story rather than infinitely blowing up the balloon and expanding the story.”

If Nolan came out and said "I'm killing Batman in RISES" fans would still debate it. "I think he just means on some level or in his heart, but he will still continue on fighting."

Not blowing up the balloon or expanding the story. That means no future set up. That the journey will end. It can't be any clearer than that.

Keep living in the safety bubble, but its as clear as day with two quotes what the man is saying.

This batman's journey will end. How it happens is still speculation though.