The Dark Knight Rises Batman Begins v.s The Dark Knight Rises

[The Joker]

It´s the standard way of doing things in an industry that´s afraid to break the rules and innovate. But once in a while, someone breaks the rules. There´s always a first time for everything.

That's the second time you've called it a rule. It's not a rule. A rule means it's not allowed to be broken. It's a common sense issue, not a rule. That's why people don't do it.

It's not innovative to do something blatantly stupid just because nobody else has done it.

To me and to many people. You keep talking like if your opinion was the law, wich it isn´t. Plenty of people had no problem understanding why she killed Bane. Plenty of people had no problem with the scene.

What many people? Where? I can count on one hand the number of people on this forum alone who try and defend it.

Not really the same thing, since Batman Begins had better reviews.

American Splendor got better reviews than Batman Begins, The Dark Knight Rises, and as good as TDK, but it would be laughable to suggest it's as loved and popular as any of those three, or many other comic book movies it beats on the critic score.

No, you weren´t correcting me on anything because i didn´t say "most people"; i said "many people", wich is the reality. Many people don´t agree with you. You act like your opinion represented a fact, but the only fact is that there are many different opinions, and while many people had problems with that scene, many hadn´t.

I didn't say you said most people either. I said many people, which is exactly what you said. And the reality is many people do agree. Most do. Bane's death gets so much flak. That is a fact. Not an opinion.

And again, if to you the percentage of people who like or dislike something is relevant, than we gotta agree you´re wrong. Most people loves the movie. So you´re wrong. Your opinion is wrong.

I'll repeat again since you have a reading comprehension problem; I did not say since most people agree that makes it right. I was counteracting your remark that I shouldn't be surprised that many people disagree, when many people do agree.

Second, I never once said this movie is bad. We're not talking about the movie as a whole. We're talking about Bane's crappy death. Try and keep up with the topic of discussion.

She took Batman to Bane. She told Batman, in front of Bane, they were trying to kill her. So it´s more than obvious they have met before.

No it isn't. A crime boss can send someone to kill someone else without even having met them. I mentioned several examples of it already in the previous Batman movies alone.

Common sense.

She had the skills, she had the interest and she had the emotional bond with Batman, so i see no problem in her saving him by killing Bane. To me it was a cool and surprising moment that went against all my expectations. I loved it, and many people loved it too.

She had the skills to press a button and fire the cannon on the Bat-Pod.

Yeah I know you think it's so cool. Nobody denied you loved it. But to say many other people do when it's one of the most commonly criticized aspects of the movie is just funny.

And to me it was shown more than once. I didn´t went like "what? they were enemies?", so i guess the movie did a good job stating whose side she was.

Nobody doubted who's side she was on any more than they doubted who's side Alfred, Lucius, or the old priest in Blake's orphanage was on. That doesn't mean they should have been the ones to kill Bane.

It's nothing to do with who was on who's side.

All threads are public. I read the forums, so i read your opinions. And i read you repeating yourself like if you were desperate to change everyone´s mind.

I've been on this forum for nearly 11 years now. If I was the type of poster desperate to change everyone's mind (as if you can force people to change their minds about what they like and don't like) by forcing my opinions on everyone I'd have been banned years ago.

You on the other hand, based on your bad attitude here, and on other forums;

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=29440543&postcount=408

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=29433529&postcount=281

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=29431275&postcount=244

I'd be surprised if you last two months. You joined this forum with a big chip on your shoulder. It's going to sink you.

I´m not shifting anything. I´m simply stating that it makes more sense to be someone who has a strong presence in the movie and the right motivations. The priest has the right motivations, but not a strong presence in the movie.

That's shifting stance. You were validating Catwoman doing it simply because she had a motive. The majority of Gotham has a motive. Alfred and Lucius were just as relevant to the story, more so because they've been there since the beginning and more pivotal in Bruce's life, and they had the motives to do it, too.

That doesn't make them the candidates to kill Bane.

I would have been ok with Alfred killing Bane, depending on the context and circumstance.

You'd be ok with Alfred killing Bane.

'Nuff said!

You said "we never saw it so it never felt personal". You´re telling me how i feel, wich you are in no position to do it. You can´t tell me how i feel. I feel it was personal because the movie showed me enough evidence that they were enemies. You don´t get to tell me how i feel, pal. Stick to your feelings. Let mine alone.

Oh you are being so pedantic now. I never used the word we when I said it never felt personal. I said we never saw any Bane and Catwoman interaction, full stop, end of sentence. Then I said said it never felt personal, not we never felt it was personal. I was speaking on my own behalf there.

I wouldn't even try to speak on your behalf since I cannot comprehend your logic.

And even if it wasn´t "personal", the simple fact she likes Batman and wanted to save him would have been more than enough to kill Bane.

Yeah and I say to that what I already said above. Alfred and Lucius are in the same boat but that doesn't mean they should waste Bane either.

 

[JackWhite]

I'm imagining Alfred killing Bane now, Harry Brown style.

Alfred: No moar, Bane. No Moar!

 

[BatLobster]

Haha, just got back from GOTG (possibly Marvel's best film to date IMO) only to find that we've went through a wormhole an re-entered 2012/2013.

To me it comes down to...did Catwoman earn that moment in the story? I could see the argument both ways, but I felt she did. It wasn't like they tried to force some idea that her killing Bane was anything personal...it clearly wasn't, it just punctuated her redemption arc, which was a very important part of the story. If this had happened before Batman had gotten the chance to defeat Bane on his own and even the score there, I obviously would've taken huge issue with it. But because it happened after that, it didn't bother me. Plus, after two movies of attempting to find loopholes that made it "okay" for Batman to kill the villain at the end, it was a nice contrast to see a character that kills the bad guy and totally owns it. She's always operating in shades of grey even when she chooses the right side. She's something like the Han Solo of the movie.

In fact, it's kinda like when Han Solo comes back in the Falcon and takes Vader out of the game the end of Star Wars Ep. IV. Han didn't share any scenes with Vader in the film and had no relationship on-screen or off-screen with him either. And yes there were sequels, Vader didn't die...but I'm looking at it as a stand alone movie. For all intents and purposes Han is the one who dealt the final blow to Vader in that movie. It never bothered me there, and it never bothered me that Catwoman made the kill here.

 

[Diabo]

That's the second time you've called it a rule. It's not a rule. A rule means it's not allowed to be broken. It's a common sense issue, not a rule. That's why people don't do it.

The fact that something is done by the majority of the filmmakers doesn´t mean that´s the only valid way to do it, or even the best way.

It's not innovative to do something blatantly stupid just because nobody else has had the good sense not to do it.

A group of people not liking something doesn´t make it stupid. Learn that.

What many people? Where? I can count on one hand the number of people on this forum alone who try and defend it.

well...how many fingers do you have on your hand?

Bane still has my favorite final line of all the villains. Even thought it's a total one-liner, the implications are so chilling.

I like how Bane was killed by a witty Catwoman

I love the way Bane goes out. I love it everytime I watch it.

I don't have an issue with the concept of Selina killing Bane

Bane didn't deserve a grandiose death, he deserved to be taken care of and then forgotten like the thug he was.

bane is perfect in tdkr. Loved his death.

I've loved almost everyone of the villain endings (Except Scarecrow's in BB and Talia's lame death). And Bane's especially I love.

being killed by a missile is perfect for a monster's death. And him being saved by Selina parallels Bane being saved by Talia like two minutes earlier.

Now, keep in mind i just did a very quick search on the forum. I didn´t read every thread, i didn´t read everyone´s opinion on the subject, but in a few minutes i just gave you 10 fingers in one hand(counting with me and other guy in this thread). So, right now you have ten fingers in one hand. You welcome.

American Splendor got better reviews than Batman Begins, The Dark Knight Rises, and as good as TDK,

It didn´t really get better reviews. Only by RT critics. And that´s like just 100 and something people or so. The audience rating for Batman Begins is higher, both on RT and IMDB, so it´s not correct to say American Splendor got better reviews than Batman Begins. But Batman Begins got better reviews than transformers...everywhere!

It´s astonishing the amount of fallacy present in everything you say. Basically, everything you say is factually wrong. And i just proved it two times in a row.

I didn't say you said most people either. I said many people, which is exactly what you said. And the reality is many people do agree. Most do. Bane's death gets so much flak. That is a fact. Not an opinion

You did say "and most people agree with it"

Yes, many people agree with you, and many people don´t. That´s a fact, not an opinion. Bane´s death is, indeed, controversial, but that doesn´t make it wrong or invalid.

Second, I never once said this movie is bad. We're not talking about the movie as a whole. We're talking about Bane's crappy death. Try and keep up with the topic of discussion.

99% of your comments about this movie are negative, and i´ve seen you rate it below 7, so it´s pretty clear that you think this is an average/mediocre movie, not a great movie. Well, MOST PEOPLE don´t agree with you. MOST PEOPLE think it is great. MOST PEOPLE gave it a rating above 8. Even critics. Maybe it´s "common sense" that this is a great movie? Maybe you´re wrong?

No it isn't. A crime boss can send someone to kill someone else without even having met them. I mentioned several examples of it already in the previous Batman movies alone.

Common sense.

You´re right. So what? She can´t have a reason to kill him unless they have had a nice face to face conversation? I don´t understand your logic.

She had the skills to press a button and fire the cannon on the Bat-Pod.

Yeah I know you think it's so cool. Nobody denied you loved it. But to say many other people do when it's one of the most commonly criticized aspects of the movie is just funny.

Well, i know many people who loved it, so i can say it comfortably. I don´t know the exact percentage of people who liked it vs the exact percentage of people who didn´t like it, but neither do you. The only thing i know is that i´ve seen many people saying they liked it, both off and online. And i´ve seen even more people not commenting on it and giving a huge rating to the movie, so i guess it didn´t bother them that much.

Nobody doubted who's side she was on any more than they doubted who's side Alfred, Lucius, or the old priest in Blake's orphanage was on. That doesn't mean they should have been the ones to kill Bane.

It´s up to the director to decide who "should". It´s his movie, it´s his story. You can either like it or not. This is not an exact science, where you can determine what´s right and what´s wrong. Deal with it.

I've been on this forum for nearly 11 years now. If I was the type of poster desperate to change everyone's mind (as if you can force people to change their minds about what they like and don't like) by forcing my opinions on everyone I'd have been banned years ago.

You on the other hand, based on your bad attitude here, and on other forums;

http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=408

http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=281

http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=244

I'd be surprised if you last two months. You joined this forum with a big chip on your shoulder. It's going to sink you.

In the first post i was being ironic. You´re taking things out of context. And what´s wrong with the other two posts? You just told me i had a reading comprehension problem. That´s way more offensive and out of line than anything i said in those posts. Maybe you should be banned, no?

That's shifting stance. You were validating Catwoman doing it simply because she had a motive. The majority of Gotham has a motive. Alfred and Lucius were just as relevant to the story, more so because they've been there since the beginning and more pivotal in Bruce's life, and they had the motives to do it, too.

That doesn't make them the candidates to kill Bane.

Just because you think they couldn´t have killed Bane, that doesn´t mean they couldn´t. That would have been fine with me, under the right circumstances.

Catwoman had a motive, she had importance in the story and she is a physical warrior. Kicking people´s asses is what she does. So, it makes perfect sense for her to kill Bane or any other villain.

Alfred or Lucius would have been a little more strange, because they´re not physical warriors. That´s not what they´re known for. They aren´t known for getting physical and kicking people´s asses. That´s Catwoman´s job. That´s Batman´s job. So no, Catwoman killing Bane isn´t the same exact thing as Alfred killing Bane, even though it wouldn´t have bothered me, under the right circumstances.

Nolan thinks outside the box. I like that. And it seems i´m not the only one, given his success.