Contest of Marvels II Thread 3

[JewishHobbit]

Goblin Queen
Purple Man
Gorgon
Gladiator

 

[kytrigger]

Goblin Queen
Purple Man
Gorgon
Airwalker (interesting fight though and a tough decision for I/P)

 

[Phaedrus45]

Results So Far:

Gorgon-EotS currently beating Attuma 8-0
Goblin Queen currently beating Wraith 8-0
Purple Man currently beating Basilisk 8-0
Air Walker currently beating Gladiator 6-2

 

[DarkHellRider]

Gorgon
Goblin Queen
Purple Man
Airwalker

 

[Harlekin]

Gorgon
Goblin Queen
Purple Man
Gladiator

 

[Darren Daring]

Gorgon-EotS
Goblin Queen
Purple Man
Gladiator

 

[Iceman]

Goblin Queen
Gorgon
Purple Man
Glairwalkator

Spoiler

[BLACKOUT]
I'll go with Air-Walker - Gladiator is one of my faves and I wanted to take him as far as possible but I'm guessing people will focus on his lame confidence issues.

...& I'm not risking the embarrassment of losing him to a mind-bender like Purple man.

R.I.P. [/BLACKOUT]

 

[Phaedrus45]

Results So Far:

Gorgon-EotS currently beating Attuma 12-0
Goblin Queen currently beating Wraith 12-0
Purple Man currently beating Basilisk 12-0
Air Walker currently beating Gladiator 7-4

 

[Hellstormer]

Air-Walker
Goblin Queen
Purple Man
Gorgon

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Gorgon
Goblin Queen
Purple Man
Air-Walker

 

[Phaedrus45]

Final Results:

Gorgon-EotS beat Attuma 14-0
Goblin Queen beat Wraith 14-0
Purple Man beat Basilisk 14-0
Air Walker beat Gladiator 9-4

 

[Phaedrus45]

BRACKET 5,

Match 31:


X-Ray - U-Foes (MIDNIGHT ICE) bio

vs.

Shakti Haddad (WOLVERINE25TH) bio

Match 32:

Jean Grey (PHAEDRUS45) bio

vs.

Sabretooth (DARKHELLRIDER) bio

 

[Phaedrus45]

BRACKET 6,

Match 31:

Moonstone (HARLEKIN) bio

vs.

Bishop (JEWISHHOBBIT) bio

Match 32:

Patriarch (HELLSTORMER) bio

(No Picture Available)

vs.

Shocker (WIEGEABO) bio

 

[Phaedrus45]

Location: Marvel 1602

Battle will be Marvel 1602, in the New World. There will be no technology, you'll be placed in the forest area (water from creeks and animals will be around, of course, but no humans), and it will be about a 2 mile radius to fight in.

Here is a website devoted to Marvel 1602; but, there really isn't much about the world they inhabit in there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_1602

 

[Hellstormer]

Patriarch (HELLSTORMER) bio

(No Picture Available)

vs.

Shocker (WIEGEABO) bio

...You're kidding right? First PArti would TP away Shocker's arms then parts of his body one by one.

Patriarch Wins

 

[Phaedrus45]

Jean Grey vs. Sabretooth:

First, let's look at the bios.

Sabretooth:

Abilities- Regenerative healing factor - Slowed aging process
- Superhuman strength, stamina, agility, and reflexes
- Superhumanly acute senses
- Adamantium-laced skeleton and claws
- Resistance to telepathic detection and control.

Jean Grey:

AbilitiesTelepathy,
Telekinesis,
Mind control,
Force blasts,


Those are the quick versions of each character's powers, of course. Now, it might seem that Sabretooth might be a challenge; but, that simply isn't the fact. If you read X-Men #28, Jean Grey easily defeats Sabretooth.

Basically, Jean Grey has not only numerous experience with fighting Sabretooth; but, she has prep-time, in which she'd be totally prepared to battle him. Even if Sabretooth can resist Jean Grey's telepathic abilities, I point out one important aspect of Jean's powers: "Jean is one of the few telepaths skilled enough to communicate with animals (animals with high intelligence, such as dolphins[21],dogs[22], and ravens[23])." Thus, since there are no other people around the location, her abilities to communicate with the animals will make her able to keep tabs on where Sabretooth is continually in this battle.

This is only an abreviated first debate, but I will leave everyone with a quote from a webpage that talks about X-Men #28:

"Jubilee and Jean Grey, the characters with the closest ties to Wolverine, react appropriately - Jubilee's terrified, and Jean just brushes Sabretooth aside as a blustering irrelevance who isn't nearly powerful enough to cause her any concern."

Clearly, if Jean didn't know about the battle ahead of time and who she was facing, it might present more of a challenge. But, just as I've noted in a past battle, Jean has nothing to worry about.

Winner = Jean Grey

 

[JewishHobbit]

Bishop Vs Moonstone

Okay, I haven't had a chance to do much research so this won't be much of a debate, but it gets something up for now. Here's my main thought, the energies of the Moonstone provides Moonstone with her powers. Bishop can take hits from massive amounts of energy and can throw it back at the person, so he can take her energy. He also is a lot more experienced than her and has been dealing with her type since he was young. He was a member of the XSE and not a small one, a leader. He has taken on mutant after mutant and got to the point where they all feared him, that's no small feet. Since then he's trained under Xavier and has learned discipline. He controls his powers wonderfully and has resources that will help him out. His X-treme X-Men glasses connect to the internet, so not only can he wear them in preptime to learn about Moonstone (who was a master of evil member and a thunderbolt, so she'll be known), but he can also use them to learn things about her and to help him with tactics as the battle rages. The location is of little help or harm to either person, so that's no biggie.

Overall, the main question is the amount of raw power that Moonstone welds, and if she blasts it at Bishop, he can take it just fine. If he could take a blast from Magneto and return it, a full powered assault by Onslaught and live to tell about it, etc. etc. etc. a blast from Moonstone won't do much to him. He'll be able to throw it back no problem.

So what about her other powers? Intangability... he's trained against Kitty Pryde time and again. He knows the power and will no doubt know exactly how to challenge it. Super strength is no biggie to defend against, nor is speed when those are things Bishop's dealth with regularly in the past. There is no one power of Moonstones that Bishop hasn't faced and conquered before. He's an expert strategist and highly experienced. Not to mention all his array of futuristic technology. He seems like an underdog, but he's resourceful, he's gone up against worse and won (Magneto, Chronomaster, Sinister, Juggernaut, etc). This is no wipping boy, he's a top notch threat and Moonstone can easily be just another notch on his belt.

Winner -Bishop

 

[Harlekin]

OPENING COMMENTS: Moonstone vs Bishop

Powers and abilities - Moonstone

Spoiler

First off, a more expansive bio concerning Moonstone's powers as they are in this fight. Since this is Moonstone before she went into a coma, she has possession of two moonstones, increasing her powers tremendously. In case the site is down (it is geocities after all):

A cunning criminal psychiatrist and master manipulator, Karla is extremely adept at influencing people's feelings and behavior to her advantage. She also has various superhuman powers thanks to the moonstone she absorbed into her body; it gives her a superhuman physique, the power of flight, the ability to phase through solid objects, and the ability to emit light (including blinding luminescence and laser-like force beams). Her Moonstone costume is an extension of the moonstone itself, and she can manifest it in place of other clothing at will (and vice versa) via molecular acceleration, which is also the basis of her phasing power. More recently, Karla has absorbed a second Moonstone, vastly augmenting her existing powers and manifesting new ones such as gravity manipulation. In her current state, Moonstone is one of the most powerful superhumans on Earth.

For a really precise account of her current powers, I point you to this:

- Known powers: Currently comatose and without the Moonstones of Earth and Counter Earth, Karla is powerless. The Moonstones Karla used are gravity-based. Acquiring the second moonstone increased her powers significantly. She herself claimed it was an exponential increase. While not as powerful as Graviton, she is a very formidable opponent.
* Superhuman strength, endurance, and durability
* Flight
* Instantaneously change into/alter her costume
* Reducing or increasing gravity's pull on an object
* Phasing/intangibility by reducing her body's specific gravity.
* Light generation (varies from a blinding luminescence to a powerful, focused blast of concentrated photons)
* She could also allow the Earth's gravitational pull to propel her. To the casual viewer this would make her appear to disappear or teleport.
* Use of gravity wells also gave her an effect similar to teleportation.

- Known Abilities: Dr. Sofen is a trained psychiatrist and is particularly skilled in using hypnosis.
- Strength Level: Without the moonstones, Karla has the strength of a normal human female with little regular exercise. While she had one moonstone, Karla could lift 10 tons. It is not known how much she could lift with both moonstones, although 100 tons seems likely if her claims of exponentially increased power are accurate.

From Spider-Bob:

Normal human augmented by the Kree Moonstone from two realities enabling superhuman strength, speed, stamina, agility, invulnerability, super-sonic flight, teleportation, invisibility, an ability to emit concussive energy blast, become intangible and manipulate gravity and matter at a molecular level.

Note: The Moonstone's energy is virtually inexhaustible. Moonstone's costume is generated by molecular manipulation and donned by will.

The Marvel Wikia:

Moonstone draws power from an alien gravity stone, and can use the stone's elemental energy to fly, become intangible (by lowering the density of her body), and focus gravity into force blasts that she fires from her hands. She has also shown the ability to project flashes of blinding light and is described as having gained prodigious superhuman strength and speed through the use of the stone. When Moonstone absorbed a second gravity stone, she displayed the ability to control gravitiational forces to move and manipulate matter, create force fields, increase gravity around a target to crush it, generate miniature black holes, even transport objects through dimensional rifts.

And finally, from this link:

Powers: Moonstone possesses several superhuman abilities, deriving from the two alien moonstones which have bonded directly to her nervous system. These superhuman abilities seem to be gravimetric in nature. The moonstones have given Moonstone a superhuman physique, granting her increased strength, endurance, and durability to an unknown degree. Moonstone bears the ability to fly, even through the vacuum of space, and presumably does so through gravimetric nullification. Her top flight speed is unknown, but she is able to achieve escape velocity. Moonstone bears the ability to render herself intangible by gravimetrically accelerating her molecules, enabling her to pass through solid matter unimpeded, and can also render herself invisible by gravimetrically refracting light directed at her. Moonstone bears the ability to generate and manipulate gravimetric energy in a variety of ways, allowing her to create forcefields, energy blasts, and other effects. Moonstone has demonstrated the ability to teleport herself as well as other objects and persons by opening up gravimetric shunts, which operate in a similar manner to wormholes. It is unknown how long Moonstone can maintain the usage of her powers at full capacity before she begins to tire.

Powers and abilities - Bishop
From UxM:

absorb power from any energy source directed at him, allowing him to rechannel the energies as an amplified release or store it within his personal bio-energy reserves, where the energy acts to fuel his strength, endurance, and recuperative abilities to a degree or can be discharged as concussive force blasts; carries plasma blasters through which he can channel his personal energies

Now, I know that the obvious advantage would be with Bishop, since, y'know, he's got energy absorbing powers, and will know of what Moonstone can do. However, Karla isn't an idiot. She is in fact, highly intelligent. She'll figure out Bishop's powers a few minutes into the fight. Although Bishop will be storing energy, he will be releasing some, if not most of it, which will clue her in to the fact that she needn't bother to hit him with just energy blasts. She's going to have to use her other powers:
- Class 100 strength? I think class 100 is a little over the top, but with her claims of exponential growth, 50 class really isn't far fetched. That is already too much for Bishop, with normal strength, to handle.
- Combine this strength with superspeed. Unlike her former comrades, she has no qualms with destroying everything in her path. She doesn't care for civilian life, and Bishop certainly will. A combination of superspeed, a hostage and superstrength should be enough.
- Bishop can't hurt Moonstone while intangible with normal attacks. As soon as he's expanded his energy (which can hurt Moonstone) and she's taken care of his guns, Bishop won't be able to do jack against her phasing power.
- Forcefields will easily ward off anything Bishop throws at her.
- She can superspeed his fancy shades and then just turn invisible.
- Gravity manipulation. Bishop can't absorb energy from being thrown around or from being crushed into nothing.
- Teleportation to avoid Bishop.
- Just plain generate a friggin' mini black hole and suck him into it.

I'm afraid Bishop doesn't stand a chance against that kind of power.

WINNER=MOONSTONE

 

[Harlekin]

REBUTTAL: Moonstone vs Bishop

Here's my main thought, the energies of the Moonstone provides Moonstone with her powers. Bishop can take hits from massive amounts of energy and can throw it back at the person, so he can take her energy.

Definitely. She'll figure out his energy absorption minutes into the fight though.

He also is a lot more experienced than her and has been dealing with her type since he was young. He was a member of the XSE and not a small one, a leader. He has taken on mutant after mutant and got to the point where they all feared him, that's no small feet. Since then he's trained under Xavier and has learned discipline.

"A lot more"? Doubt it. She's been a villain for so long, I think the experience edge won't matter at all. Weighing up against that anyway is Moonstone's total disregard for human life.

He controls his powers wonderfully and has resources that will help him out. His X-treme X-Men glasses connect to the internet, so not only can he wear them in preptime to learn about Moonstone (who was a master of evil member and a thunderbolt, so she'll be known), but he can also use them to learn things about her and to help him with tactics as the battle rages. The location is of little help or harm to either person, so that's no biggie.

Which is why she can just take those away at super speed. That'd be her first tactic most likely. Disarming the guy. Prep-time advantage is without a doubt Bishop's though, yes. I originally figured Moonstone could take a hostage in this location, but there are apparently no humans around. Either way, Moonstone will be using lethal force, which ups the stakes for Bishop just a little.

Overall, the main question is the amount of raw power that Moonstone welds, and if she blasts it at Bishop, he can take it just fine. If he could take a blast from Magneto and return it, a full powered assault by Onslaught and live to tell about it, etc. etc. etc. a blast from Moonstone won't do much to him. He'll be able to throw it back no problem.

A normal blast? Sure. Full-on power? It'll throw him for a loop a bit, but I agree he'll be able to return it. Funny thing is though, Moonstone is smart enough to figure out he's absorbing her energy and won't just throw her full power into it.

So what about her other powers? Intangability... he's trained against Kitty Pryde time and again.

Uhm, nope. That's not true. When Bishop arrived in the X-Men's world, Kitty was with Excalibur. When Kitty returned to the X-Men, Bishop was long gone again. By the time Bishop came back to the X-Men, Kitty had retired. When she came back to the fold, they didn't exactly take the time to train, considering they were fighting Elias Bogan. Afterwards, Kitty left the X-Men again, to then join the Astonishing team. That only gives them like a month to interact (if they do so at all), before Bishop leaves the team again. He'll know what he's up against, but he won't be able to do anything about it.

Super strength is no biggie to defend against, nor is speed when those are things Bishop's dealth with regularly in the past. There is no one power of Moonstones that Bishop hasn't faced and conquered before. He's an expert strategist and highly experienced. Not to mention all his array of futuristic technology. He seems like an underdog, but he's resourceful, he's gone up against worse and won (Magneto, Chronomaster, Sinister, Juggernaut, etc). This is no wipping boy, he's a top notch threat and Moonstone can easily be just another notch on his belt.

I didn't know he went up against mini black holes and gravity powers. I didn't know he could take class 50 to the jaw. I didn't know he could do much of anything against speed faster than escape velocity. There are so many things Moonstone can do that Bishop can't defend against, it's ridiculous.

Also, he won against Magneto? Nope, not ever. He fired back some energy at him at Illyana's funeral, but it certainly didn't take him out. He beat the Chronomaster, but he never beat Sinister, only blowing his head off. Sinister came back from that peachy keen. The Juggernaut? Bishop's never faced the Juggernaut alone, and he certainly never beat him.

He won't have a prayer against Moonstone.

WINNER=MOONSTONE

 

[JewishHobbit]

REBUTTAL: Moonstone vs Bishop

Definitely. She'll figure out his energy absorption minutes into the fight though.

Bishop doesn't always show his absorption powers and often he holds the charge until the proper time to use it. Remember, he's no novice. She won't know what she's fighting against regarding his absorption powers, she'll just blast and he'll take it and charge it and then just let it out in one full blast. She has all the powers in the world, but a well placed blow can take her down, and that much power is enough to do just that. That right there is one way how Bishop can win this match. And if you say that she still won't blast at him for one reason or another, he's been known in the past to find a way to charge himself before going into battle. He could easily charge himself with some wires or something before going into the battle, especially going against someone as powerful as Moonstone.

"A lot more"? Doubt it. She's been a villain for so long, I think the experience edge won't matter at all. Weighing up against that anyway is Moonstone's total disregard for human life.

Let's recap that. She's been a villain for many long years (though not as many actual experiences in that time), but keep in mind she lost most of them (as most villains do). Bishop started young and worked his way up the latter before he was even introduced. He eventually made his way to the current 616 and has been fighting there for years as well. I will still stand by the statement that he has a lot of experience over her, and though she has a disregard for human life, remember that the only life present is Bishop, and if provoked he can get a bit rough around the edges himself. He's definately killed in the past, all the way up through X-Treme X-Men time (I can't think of anything after that). He's also a calculated tactician. While she's very intelligent, she's also cocky and thinks she's all that. Bishop wipes his butt with people like that and has for years. All it takes is one mistake and Bishop becomes King.

Which is why she can just take those away at super speed. That'd be her first tactic most likely. Disarming the guy. Prep-time advantage is without a doubt Bishop's though, yes. I originally figured Moonstone could take a hostage in this location, but there are apparently no humans around. Either way, Moonstone will be using lethal force, which ups the stakes for Bishop just a little.

If you see a guy coming at you, the last thing you're going to see on him and consider a threat is his glasses. I think she'd be focusing on more than just that. She may eventually figure out that Bishop's glasses can feed him information, such as weekspots, sorces of power, power-levels, internet information regarding his foe, etc, but by then I'm sure he'd have already capitolized on it quite well.

A normal blast? Sure. Full-on power? It'll throw him for a loop a bit, but I agree he'll be able to return it. Funny thing is though, Moonstone is smart enough to figure out he's absorbing her energy and won't just throw her full power into it.

She's cocky, intelligent, but she'd like to make Bishop look pretty bad if possible. I can see her not knowing much about Bishop and just wanting to take him out. She would come at him full power (or pretty dog on close to it) and try to just humiliate him quickly, charging him up, and he'd go down. She'd walk toward him mocking him in some way and he'd play possum until she was close enough, then she'd get her own full power back in her face, let along with whatever other charges he has saved from previous fights. Like I said, a strong force like that would take out Moonstone just fine. She's powerful, but her cockiness and desire to look so great will be her downfall.

Uhm, nope. That's not true. When Bishop arrived in the X-Men's world, Kitty was with Excalibur. When Kitty returned to the X-Men, Bishop was long gone again. By the time Bishop came back to the X-Men, Kitty had retired. When she came back to the fold, they didn't exactly take the time to train, considering they were fighting Elias Bogan. Afterwards, Kitty left the X-Men again, to then join the Astonishing team. That only gives them like a month to interact (if they do so at all), before Bishop leaves the team again. He'll know what he's up against, but he won't be able to do anything about it.

Kitty's spent enough time visiting the mansion before rejoining the X-Men and since where Bishop and her would be able to train together... and if that isn't enough, Bishop's also trained with Shard for a short time while she was a hologram. He's also a mutant cop in the future and had been for years. I think it's safe to assume (and it's up to the voter here) that he's been up against phasing mutants before and could find ways to take them out. He's been raised to hunt and take out mutants, and phasing isn't exactly something odd. This is up to the reader though, as I can't think of an example to back this, just my opinion. I'm thinking that one of the mutants he followed through when he came to the current time was a mutant, but I can't think specifically for certain, so I won't claim it.

I didn't know he went up against mini black holes and gravity powers. I didn't know he could take class 50 to the jaw. I didn't know he could do much of anything against speed faster than escape velocity. There are so many things Moonstone can do that Bishop can't defend against, it's ridiculous.

Thing is, she has all this power, but never have I seen anyone with all that power every use every single bit of it in a battle. They typically spend most of their time on a few powers and might pull something else out to surprise their foe if needed. Most things can be prevented or stopped simply by creating a distraction, and Bishop will know how to do so. If she tries to open a black hole, his blasting a tree with his gun (cutting it) will distract her, as she has to leap from it's path. Bishop then has a window of oppertunity to act however he sees fit. If she tries to open a black hole, who says he can't somehow shoot her with his gun, or unleash some stored energy, and either distract her to drop it, or knock her into the hole himself. If she opens a black hole, chance are he can turn it into just a dangerous a situation for her as it is for him. And yes, he can get sucked into it, but there's trees and boulders gallore to help slow that process so that he can work his magic. I like the idea of him shooting a tree in the distance that she is standing in the path of it's being sucked in, and either she is distracted and has to protect herself, dropping the hole, or is hit by it and is taken into the hole by the tree, etc.

Bottom line, there's a way around anything that can be thrown, and Bishop has the resume to show he has the knowledge to do it.

Also, he won against Magneto? Nope, not ever. He fired back some energy at him at Illyana's funeral, but it certainly didn't take him out. He beat the Chronomaster, but he never beat Sinister, only blowing his head off. Sinister came back from that peachy keen. The Juggernaut? Bishop's never faced the Juggernaut alone, and he certainly never beat him.

He won't have a prayer against Moonstone.

I never said he won alone in those, he just utilized his resources as needed (including preparing the foe for his team mates to take them out). He set up Magneto for defeat, and I'm pretty sure he beat Sinister just prior to Onslaught, though I could be remembering that wrong. I'm pretty sure your talking about the time the met in X-Cutioner's Song, that's not what I'm thinking about. There's more than one way to win a match without killing someone, and I think Bishop did it there with Sinister. (I think, man I miss my comics). As for Juggernaut, he was Cytorakk when Onslaught beat the crap out of him, so when he was weak, he was still quite a foe that Bishop did bring down, so yeah, he beat him. But that's something else. A blast from Onslaught sent Juggy accross country, and his power rendered a Cytorakk Juggy nearly useless. Bishop took that power in in spades. He also went down after that, but the point is, he took it and lived. That also shows how much power and potential is in Bishop. Moonstone will probably think Bishop a pushover, as you seem to, but he's always been a brute, and he has the experience and craftiness to pull this one off.

Winner - Bishop

 

[JewishHobbit]

[Now, I know that the obvious advantage would be with Bishop, since, y'know, he's got energy absorbing powers, and will know of what Moonstone can do. However, Karla isn't an idiot. She is in fact, highly intelligent. She'll figure out Bishop's powers a few minutes into the fight. Although Bishop will be storing energy, he will be releasing some, if not most of it, which will clue her in to the fact that she needn't bother to hit him with just energy blasts. She's going to have to use her other powers:
- Class 100 strength? I think class 100 is a little over the top, but with her claims of exponential growth, 50 class really isn't far fetched. That is already too much for Bishop, with normal strength, to handle.
- Combine this strength with superspeed. Unlike her former comrades, she has no qualms with destroying everything in her path. She doesn't care for civilian life, and Bishop certainly will. A combination of superspeed, a hostage and superstrength should be enough.
- Bishop can't hurt Moonstone while intangible with normal attacks. As soon as he's expanded his energy (which can hurt Moonstone) and she's taken care of his guns, Bishop won't be able to do jack against her phasing power.
- Forcefields will easily ward off anything Bishop throws at her.
- She can superspeed his fancy shades and then just turn invisible.
- Gravity manipulation. Bishop can't absorb energy from being thrown around or from being crushed into nothing.
- Teleportation to avoid Bishop.
- Just plain generate a friggin' mini black hole and suck him into it.

I'm afraid Bishop doesn't stand a chance against that kind of power.

WINNER=MOONSTONE

Something else I'm thinking about, and I'll let the voters decide if this is legit or just my maniacal thinking, but if all her powers are the sorce of the stones, which is energy based... wouldn't all her powers give off some level of energy? The energy from the stones is giving her strength, intangebility, etc... would she be omiting some energy for those to take place? Could it possibly be that Bishop will be charging this whole match? Even if it's just a little bit, it's still enough that Bishop will feel and let charge until the time is right to let it all out.

And I also think that the earlier mention of how Bishop can win is very possible the more I think about it. She'd come at him cocky and just blow him away with all that power. She may try some smaller ones and he'd probably dodge them, but eventually she'd just try to humiliate him and go all out, and he'll absorb the energy. He'd lie there and she'd walk up to him, mocking him and such, or fly near, etc. When she gets close enough he'd attack. If she's in air he'd release a little energy to bring her to earth, then he'd grab her by the arms and releae it all at once (plus what's stored) at point blank ranger. Her arms would be in his hands and her body flowing back as the energy slams into her and passes through her. That's some MASSIVE energy slamming into her, and though she has a lot of power, she doesn't have the resistance to take that. She'd go link in his hands. Bishop wins. It's a simple plan, but typically that's all it takes, and if you require more detail and hardships in a plan, I don't know enough to create one, but remember Bishop's experience dealing with super powers and his strategic mind, and his glasses, and all the things he's got going for him, and know that he can pull it off.

Winner - Bishop

 

[Harlekin]

REBUTTAL: Moonstone vs Bishop

Bishop doesn't always show his absorption powers and often he holds the charge until the proper time to use it. Remember, he's no novice. She won't know what she's fighting against regarding his absorption powers, she'll just blast and he'll take it and charge it and then just let it out in one full blast.

And the fact that he'll just be taking it and glowing won't tip her off to the fact that he's taking her energy. Heck, it's also quite likely she won't even go for the energy blasts and go straight into her other powers to show them off a bit.

I also kinda didn't want to bust this one out, but Moonstone is actually capable of getting shreds of info on our friend Bishop. Just a bit before she went into her little coma, Bishop and the (X-Treme) X-Men joined the government and became public figures. This together with the resources at her disposal (I'm thinking either underground contacts or computer files from the 'Bolts), she could glean the basics of Bishop's power. A bit farfetched, but possible.

She has all the powers in the world, but a well placed blow can take her down, and that much power is enough to do just that.

Not even much of a well placed bow. It takes a lot to put someone of her endurance down. A returned blast of her own power wouldn't be enough.

That right there is one way how Bishop can win this match. And if you say that she still won't blast at him for one reason or another, he's been known in the past to find a way to charge himself before going into battle. He could easily charge himself with some wires or something before going into the battle, especially going against someone as powerful as Moonstone.

So he'll charge himself. She can dodge (super speed), she can become invisible, she can make herself intangible and she's just got endurance up the wazoo.

Let's recap that. She's been a villain for many long years (though not as many actual experiences in that time), but keep in mind she lost most of them (as most villains do). [...] While she's very intelligent, she's also cocky and thinks she's all that. Bishop wipes his butt with people like that and has for years. All it takes is one mistake and Bishop becomes King.

I definitely give Bishop the experience edge, but he's long lost his killer instinct. I don't recall him killing anyone during the X-Treme X-Men run anyway, and he'd stopped before that, with the exception of Fitzroy. Bishop may have gone up against a few arrogant villains with a lot of power before, but that doesn't mean he has this in the bag. She can afford one or two mistakes, simply on the virtue of the versatility of her powers.

If you see a guy coming at you, the last thing you're going to see on him and consider a threat is his glasses. I think she'd be focusing on more than just that. She may eventually figure out that Bishop's glasses can feed him information, such as weekspots, sorces of power, power-levels, internet information regarding his foe, etc, but by then I'm sure he'd have already capitolized on it quite well.

Coming at her is the last thing Bishop needs to do by the way, because she'll just cut him down then and there. Thing is, she can take away all of his equipment in seconds if she wants to. Taking away the glasses will at least mean that Bishop won't be able to see her if she goes invisible.

She's cocky, intelligent, but she'd like to make Bishop look pretty bad if possible. I can see her not knowing much about Bishop and just wanting to take him out. She would come at him full power (or pretty dog on close to it) and try to just humiliate him quickly, charging him up, and he'd go down. She'd walk toward him mocking him in some way and he'd play possum until she was close enough, then she'd get her own full power back in her face, let along with whatever other charges he has saved from previous fights. Like I said, a strong force like that would take out Moonstone just fine. She's powerful, but her cockiness and desire to look so great will be her downfall.

Yes, she will be cocky. Yes, she will want to humiliate Bishop. Subterfuge however, is not something alien to her. Remember "Under Siege"? Remember the entire fact that she was manipulating the Thunderbolts all the time during their first run? To just walk up to him would be... ******ed. She's going to go out of her way to make him look bad, but she's all about winning too. The moment she might even think she can't handle it, she'll take him down ruthlessly, and she's not just going to walk up to him and let herself get blasted in the face. Also, "previous fights"? What previous fights?

Kitty's spent enough time visiting the mansion before rejoining the X-Men and since where Bishop and her would be able to train together...

Now you're just making this up to keep your point. There simply wasn't any time for them to train. Heck, beyond the X-Treme run, I can't think of a single moment they were in the same panel together. Kitty visited the X-Men once or twice for stuff like Scott and Jean's wedding, but not for any training. Before X-Treme, Bishop was out disappearing every month or so anyway.

and if that isn't enough, Bishop's also trained with Shard for a short time while she was a hologram. He's also a mutant cop in the future and had been for years. I think it's safe to assume (and it's up to the voter here) that he's been up against phasing mutants before and could find ways to take them out. He's been raised to hunt and take out mutants, and phasing isn't exactly something odd. This is up to the reader though, as I can't think of an example to back this, just my opinion. I'm thinking that one of the mutants he followed through when he came to the current time was a mutant, but I can't think specifically for certain, so I won't claim it.

I think it's a little too easy to say. Yes, he will have trained with Shard, but to say he must've faced a phasing opponent... no. We've only ever seen like two muties (Kitty and Neophyte from the Acolytes) have a phasing power, that I recall. That's two mutants out of the dozens we've seen.

Thing is, she has all this power, but never have I seen anyone with all that power every use every single bit of it in a battle. They typically spend most of their time on a few powers and might pull something else out to surprise their foe if needed.

She's going to want to show off her heavily increased powers, so she'd definitely switch up her act a bit.

Most things can be prevented or stopped simply by creating a distraction, and Bishop will know how to do so. If she tries to open a black hole, his blasting a tree with his gun (cutting it) will distract her, as she has to leap from it's path.

Right, because he won't be bothered by the miniature black hole opening next to him and sucking him in? Problem's also easily solved by flying up over the trees, which is another advantage Moonstone has. Flight. It's also not wise to try and distract someone that just opened a black hole next to you. An uncontrolled black hole is pretty darn dangerous.

Bishop then has a window of oppertunity to act however he sees fit. If she tries to open a black hole, who says he can't somehow shoot her with his gun, or unleash some stored energy, and either distract her to drop it, or knock her into the hole himself.

You're assuming that Moonstone will stay near Bishop. Why, for the love of Pete, would she stick to Bishop, while opening a black hole!? She's not going to be dumb enough to just let herself get blasted into it.

If she opens a black hole, chance are he can turn it into just a dangerous a situation for her as it is for him. And yes, he can get sucked into it, but there's trees and boulders gallore to help slow that process so that he can work his magic.

How are they slowing things down? They're getting sucked in just as hard.

I like the idea of him shooting a tree in the distance that she is standing in the path of it's being sucked in, and either she is distracted and has to protect herself, dropping the hole, or is hit by it and is taken into the hole by the tree, etc.

Let's go with that scenario for a minute:
- Why isn't she in the air?
- If she is at a distance, won't the black hole still be more of a problem for Bishop than for her?
- Isn't an uncontrolled black hole, really ****ing dangerous? It's not like she gets knocked out and the mini black hole just plain stops existing.

I never said he won alone in those, he just utilized his resources as needed (including preparing the foe for his team mates to take them out). He set up Magneto for defeat, and I'm pretty sure he beat Sinister just prior to Onslaught, though I could be remembering that wrong. I'm pretty sure your talking about the time the met in X-Cutioner's Song, that's not what I'm thinking about. There's more than one way to win a match without killing someone, and I think Bishop did it there with Sinister. (I think, man I miss my comics).

I don't recall such a battle. I was talking about X-Cutioner's song yes, in which, I'm pretty sure he owned Bishop. He didn't really set Magneto up for defeat either, since Magneto walked away with nary a scratch and Bishop still needed the energy of guys like Havok, Cycke and a few other people (we're talking about Fatal Attractions, right?). Either way, Moonstone helped the Masters of Evil take down the Avengers. Helped the Thunderbolts take down Graviton. I mean, I can rattle off a dozen examples of her and a team beating someone, but that doesn't mean half as much as taking someone down by herself.

As for Juggernaut, he was Cytorakk when Onslaught beat the crap out of him, so when he was weak, he was still quite a foe that Bishop did bring down, so yeah, he beat him. But that's something else. A blast from Onslaught sent Juggy accross country, and his power rendered a Cytorakk Juggy nearly useless.

I'm still wondering, when did they fight? I don't recall them fighting after Onslaught messed Juggy up.

Bishop took that power in in spades. He also went down after that, but the point is, he took it and lived. That also shows how much power and potential is in Bishop. Moonstone will probably think Bishop a pushover, as you seem to, but he's always been a brute, and he has the experience and craftiness to pull this one off.

I don't think Bishop's a pushover. I think Bishop's going down pretty hard in this fight, but he'll get in a lick or two, but nothing beyond that.

Something else I'm thinking about, and I'll let the voters decide if this is legit or just my maniacal thinking, but if all her powers are the sorce of the stones, which is energy based... wouldn't all her powers give off some level of energy? The energy from the stones is giving her strength, intangebility, etc... would she be omiting some energy for those to take place? Could it possibly be that Bishop will be charging this whole match? Even if it's just a little bit, it's still enough that Bishop will feel and let charge until the time is right to let it all out.

That'd be contingent on her automatically charging the energy into the air. The energy would be localized, since she merged with the stones. She's fueled by the energy, but it's not seeping out of her. Bishop certainly won't be absorbing any energy when she throws him a class 50 punch to the jaw.

And I also think that the earlier mention of how Bishop can win is very possible the more I think about it. [...] It's a simple plan, but typically that's all it takes, and if you require more detail and hardships in a plan, I don't know enough to create one, but remember Bishop's experience dealing with super powers and his strategic mind, and his glasses, and all the things he's got going for him, and know that he can pull it off.

We've gone over this. It's contingent on the idea that Moonstone won't be able to assess his powers, won't have a little info on him, and is just plain stupid in walking up to someone and going all out. It's not going to happen.

WINNER=MOONSTONE

 

[Midnight Ice]

X-Ray - U-Foes (MIDNIGHT ICE) bio

vs.

Shakti Haddad (WOLVERINE25TH) bio

This shoul dend up being a pretty easy fight for X-Ray. Here is a quick overview of his powers:
His physical form has been permanently converted into quasi-solid radiation. He can levitate and project various wavelengths of radiation. He is also invulnerable to physical injury.

Shakti is pretty much just a human cerebro. Sure, she has telepathy, but since X-Ray is invulnerable to physical injury, that wouldn't do much of anything.

With Shakti inability to hurt X-Ray, X-Ray would end the fight quickly be bombarding her with all types of radiation. The types and amounts would depend on if he wants to kill of knock her out.

Winner:X-Ray

 

[JewishHobbit]

REBUTTAL: Moonstone vs Bishop


And the fact that he'll just be taking it and glowing won't tip her off to the fact that he's taking her energy. Heck, it's also quite likely she won't even go for the energy blasts and go straight into her other powers to show them off a bit.

Is it possible that she'd go for other attacks first? Yes, and you're required to mention that because she's your character, but in the few issues of Thunderbolts that I've read, in every fight she started off with energy blasts, and usually not small ones. I think it's more believable and in character for her to go that route... and though Bishop doesn't always glow when absorbing energy, only when it's overly powerful. That's good for me in this debate though because 1) If he's glowing, then he already has been filled with enough energy to quickly take her out. It doesn't matter if she notices and holds back, he only needs the second to retain that energy and rechannel it to end the match... and 2) If her energy isn't enough to force him to 'glow' then he can still secretly collect it while playing wounded until he has enough to take her out. Either way, it works for Bishop's side.

I also kinda didn't want to bust this one out, but Moonstone is actually capable of getting shreds of info on our friend Bishop. Just a bit before she went into her little coma, Bishop and the (X-Treme) X-Men joined the government and became public figures. This together with the resources at her disposal (I'm thinking either underground contacts or computer files from the 'Bolts), she could glean the basics of Bishop's power. A bit farfetched, but possible.

Possible? Yes, but most probably unlikely. He didn't become even the slightest bit publically known until right when she went into her coma, and in fact, when she was still conscious, he was in space and in another world (in the Bishop title, which was great by the way, go read it). She might be able to get info on him, but I doubt it... whereas Bishop has all his police and such files to get info on her during her criminal days and her Thunderbolts days. He'll have her all figured out and will have the prep-time to charge himself and prepare.

Not even much of a well placed bow. It takes a lot to put someone of her endurance down. A returned blast of her own power wouldn't be enough.

I think it quite possibly could, and even if it isn't, he knows her and I can easily see him charging himself near max before going into the match in preparation... and he'll have weapons that he can use against her and use to charge himself. He can easily pack the firepower to take her out. Either through pure force, dropping trees on her, etc. She's going to have a tougher match than anyone expected, and Bishop's pre match planning and lifetime experience battling super powered villains will win it for him. And her cockiness will sure help.

So he'll charge himself. She can dodge (super speed), she can become invisible, she can make herself intangible and she's just got endurance up the wazoo.

Whose to say that he'll just stand there and atack? He's a tactition. He'll attack with surprise, set ups, he'll utilize his environment (and it isn't like that's something that has to be planned before doing, it's trees and streams). He'll find ways to make his attacks land, even though he may get a few cuts and bruises along the way. He can get it to work like he has for years.

I definitely give Bishop the experience edge, but he's long lost his killer instinct. I don't recall him killing anyone during the X-Treme X-Men run anyway, and he'd stopped before that, with the exception of Fitzroy. Bishop may have gone up against a few arrogant villains with a lot of power before, but that doesn't mean he has this in the bag. She can afford one or two mistakes, simply on the virtue of the versatility of her powers.

In matches like these, there is no room for mistake. Bishop looks for them and he knows how to utilize them. If she makes a mistake, she may be able to learn from it, but just as easily it could be her downfall. You know Bishop won't be making mistakes, as he's the calm type who waits for his chance to attack unless he has no other choice. He'll be watching and waiting for his opening and if Moonstone gives it to him, he'll take it. And I no longer have my X-Treme X-Men comics but I could have sworn he killed aliens during the Invasion arc and things of that nature. Since then he helped kill the Fury. He killed Fitzroy and before that he helped kill the Phalanx that were attacking the Shi'ar (and I don't remember what he was doing before that, but I think I've made my point). He will kill when necessary, and even for the sake of argument if we were to say that he wouldn't find this a situation to kill... who cares? You don't have to kill to win the match, just render your opponant unconsious, which is something he's very good at. He won't pull his punches and he won't have to.

Coming at her is the last thing Bishop needs to do by the way, because she'll just cut him down then and there. Thing is, she can take away all of his equipment in seconds if she wants to. Taking away the glasses will at least mean that Bishop won't be able to see her if she goes invisible.

But she won't know about the glasses helping him. Why would she take away something of his wardrobe? Is she going to take his pants and shirt too? There's no reason to take his glasses. She may try to take his weapons (though I could see him somehow rigging them to shock her if she tried, remember he has 24 hours of preptime to play with), but I don't see her going for his glasses in the slightest.

Yes, she will be cocky. Yes, she will want to humiliate Bishop. Subterfuge however, is not something alien to her. Remember "Under Siege"? Remember the entire fact that she was manipulating the Thunderbolts all the time during their first run? To just walk up to him would be... ******ed. She's going to go out of her way to make him look bad, but she's all about winning too. The moment she might even think she can't handle it, she'll take him down ruthlessly, and she's not just going to walk up to him and let herself get blasted in the face. Also, "previous fights"? What previous fights?

I can see it happening easily. She's very cocky and though intelligent, she will make mistakes. She manipulated the Thunderbolts because she knew who she was playing with and could plan ahead (for more than just a day previous). And I never read Under Siege, so can't comment on that. She may not walk up to him, but she'd remain close and that's all he'd need to take advantage of the situation. She blasts him through a tree or just for a decent distance, and all she'd see is this man with muscles blasted down, screaming in pain, and then silent. She may wonder if he's unconscious, but it isn't like she'd just pile on unmeasureable amounts of assault to take him out (and if she did he'd have more room to hide and attack due to the chaos). All it'll take is for her to get close and that's enough.

And my mention of him having saved charges from previous fights were due to whatever fights me may have had in his normal life previous to this, but for easier sake, let's just scrap that and assume he studied her and just charged himself up before the match began using electricity or whatever he chose. He very easily could have came in nearly maximum charged, adding to the energy she gives him. That's one bad dude.

Now you're just making this up to keep your point. There simply wasn't any time for them to train. Heck, beyond the X-Treme run, I can't think of a single moment they were in the same panel together. Kitty visited the X-Men once or twice for stuff like Scott and Jean's wedding, but not for any training. Before X-Treme, Bishop was out disappearing every month or so anyway.

I'm kinda thinking between the scenes, but if it's too far stretching I"m willing to let the idea go.

I think it's a little too easy to say. Yes, he will have trained with Shard, but to say he must've faced a phasing opponent... no. We've only ever seen like two muties (Kitty and Neophyte from the Acolytes) have a phasing power, that I recall. That's two mutants out of the dozens we've seen.

Kitty, Neophyte, Mountjoy (kinda), Shard, Doorman. Shard may not count as her's came due to the digital upgrade, but still, they're around, and in 100 years when he's policing the mutants of the world, and has for years, I'm sure he's met some and had to face them. I am assuming, so I'll leave that up to the voters to decide if he has experience against them.

She's going to want to show off her heavily increased powers, so she'd definitely switch up her act a bit.

Possibly, who knows. Then again, why show off stuff when you want to win (as you have stated), why not go with what you know works?

Right, because he won't be bothered by the miniature black hole opening next to him and sucking him in? Problem's also easily solved by flying up over the trees, which is another advantage Moonstone has. Flight. It's also not wise to try and distract someone that just opened a black hole next to you. An uncontrolled black hole is pretty darn dangerous.

I never said he wouldn't be bothered, but he'll see it opening and he'll cling himself to something to try to last some extra seconds (and if it sucks him in, it'll suck her in just as easily). I'd like to assume that she's smart enough to know that opening blackholes in a place like this would be death to them both. And if Bishop is going to die in a black hole, I'd think he'd take the chance that if she loses focus the hole may close. He has to try something and I think he'd try that easily. Would it work, don't know, up to the voters.

You're assuming that Moonstone will stay near Bishop. Why, for the love of Pete, would she stick to Bishop, while opening a black hole!? She's not going to be dumb enough to just let herself get blasted into it.

So she flies away and opens a blackhole? Kinda deus ex machina and overkill isn't it. I'd call it a cheap victory myself, and if Bishop proves to be difficult enough to where she has to resort to puting her own self in danger with a black hole, then I'm proud to call Bishop my character, and if it gets to that point, chances are that Bishop's already taken her out. I'm not too worried about the black hole. I'll let the voters decide on that.

How are they slowing things down? They're getting sucked in just as hard.

As is she I'm sure. Is she willing to sacrefice herself to win this? Do you admit that Bishop is good enough to actually get her to that point? And I mean 'slowing things down' in that he can hold onto them before they uproot, instead of him just up and being sucked in.

Another thought toward the Black hole is that she has to use energy to do it, and if energy opens it, chances are that he'll absorb that energy if he's near the portal enough. As soon as he feels the tug, or he goes up off of his feet, he could unleash that energy and try to propel himself from the hole (though I don't imagine him making it very far), but it could very well get him slightly further away from it than Moonstone and she'd either close it to save herself, or she'd be sucked in first and he'd win the match.

Let's go with that scenario for a minute:
- Why isn't she in the air?

She could be just fine, though refer to my previous statement that puts him further than her.

- If she is at a distance, won't the black hole still be more of a problem for Bishop than for her?

Same as above

- Isn't an uncontrolled black hole, really ****ing dangerous? It's not like she gets knocked out and the mini black hole just plain stops existing.

He's trying for a last effert chance at life, you know he's going to try it if for some reason he doesn't have energy stored to try and propel himself. If he nocks her out and it doesn't close... then he dies, but he dies after she is knocked out, thus, winning this match.

I don't recall such a battle. I was talking about X-Cutioner's song yes, in which, I'm pretty sure he owned Bishop. He didn't really set Magneto up for defeat either, since Magneto walked away with nary a scratch and Bishop still needed the energy of guys like Havok, Cycke and a few other people (we're talking about Fatal Attractions, right?). Either way, Moonstone helped the Masters of Evil take down the Avengers. Helped the Thunderbolts take down Graviton. I mean, I can rattle off a dozen examples of her and a team beating someone, but that doesn't mean half as much as taking someone down by herself.

It's when he, Gambit, and Dark Beast (posing as Beast) had to stop the train and ended up in Sinister's layer. Now as I said earlier, I could be mistaken and I don't have the issues to double check, but if I'm remembering it correctly Sinister was focusing on Gambit and Bishop broke free and the resulting battle ended up destroying Sinister's layer and Bishop tackled him and such, and Sinister fled for his life. If I'm remembering that wrong then please let me know and I'll renig that. The point I made in this though is simply that Bishop can hold his own, and I think he's proven that time and again through the years.

I'm still wondering, when did they fight? I don't recall them fighting after Onslaught messed Juggy up.

Yeah. The point is, a messed up Cytorakk Juggy is still a strong foe that Psylocke nor Beast could take out. And if you then say "but Onslaught messed him up so it wasn't a true test of strength" but that flows nicely into the fact that Cytorakk Juggy couldn't take a full assault by Onslaught and that Bishop took it just as well. Is it possible that Bishop can take the amount of torture that Cytorak Juggy could? Judging by that issue he can, so I think he can take a beating from Moonstone just fine.

Another feet I forgot was when he absorbed the full power of Mr. M in District X, and Mr. M has the power of God. And he took that and was still standing.

That'd be contingent on her automatically charging the energy into the air. The energy would be localized, since she merged with the stones. She's fueled by the energy, but it's not seeping out of her. Bishop certainly won't be absorbing any energy when she throws him a class 50 punch to the jaw.

This was just an idea that I really can't say one way or the other if it would happen. Just throwing the idea out there. She may not omit energy in a punch, but I'd certainly say that things like energy blasts, phazing, and black holes would omit some type of energy for him to absorb.


More than anyone could expect, I think this will be a heck of a match. Bishop has his hands full with a foe who is obviously more powerful than he, but he has the time to study her and plan against her. The location is a basic location that I think we can agree he knows how to put into play for his favor. Moonstone is tough but Bishop can pull this out.

Winner - Bishop

 

[JewishHobbit]

And Harl, debate what you want, but I can see us just going in circles from this point, so I'm willing to close it up if you are.