Daredevil Daredevil: FULL SEASON TWO Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

[ctsketch]

Dude... please read the back and forth first, quoting that by itself is completely out of context. We're on the same page here.

I read the back and forth, you were still confused

 

[third3ye]

I read the back and forth, you were still confused

Nope, not confused at all. But nice try.

 

[third3ye]

Funny.....that's exactly what I was picturing when reading your guys back and forth in here....

Hey I just call it how it is, even if it's self-deprecating

 

[Kobra]

I'm really loving this tv show. And i never cared about the character before.

 

[JohnnyBlaze]

That scene in ep3 when matt is fighting in the stairwell, and then catching a fighter with his chain, pulling and throwing him to the next floor on the stairs.

That was ****ing badass and epic, the whole scene reminded me of the raid, long cuts or even onetakes!! Nerdgasm

 

[Neno_Kos]

Yeah I felt the purpose of the story wasn't as concrete as the first season

Agree. It's not bad season, but it's basically Iron-Man 2 of DD. Too much setting up and not enough concentrating overall storyline and finishing what supposed to be next arc. I'll just say I liked all characters, and they were all very well developed. This season wont be appriciated too well (atleast to me) until we get DD season 3. It wont be complete. too many questions, and not enough answers.

As first season was 9/10, almost masterpiece. From both character and storyline developing with satisfying ending. This one is more at 7/10 just cause I expected same and I didnt got it. And ending was rushed, Punisher coming out of nowhere, feeling some his scenes were cut in that episode. And hearing for instance DD speaking how he can't count how many ninjas are on the roof, "will they survive" but he fought like 3 or 4 of them. Still I liked it enough to be so-so hyped for next season. I will also say first 8 episodes were pure masterpiece, and they continued building on first season. But storyline started feeling apart later on. And Karen was too much used for plot reasons, I almost started hate her. If this was CW series, I would certainly hate her cause instead 13 episoded we would got 24 of that hell. If Bullseye would make appearence in 3rd season and killed her I would be almost satisfied, instead of shocked. So good thing is we got just 13 episodes. It basically saved her character from bad writing.

 

[socool]

Disappointed is the best way to describe my feelings for this season. It was in no way bad; no, no, no, but it was not only not nearly as good as last season, and made some very stupid decisions in it's last few episodes.

First off, Nobu was...pretty lame. I cared so very little for him. The Hand had some nice moments, though. But that scene where Elektra realizes she's Black Sky (Stupid btw), she switches from killing Stick to saving him...why?? Because Matt tricked her? Lol. I must've missed it but she just switched on a dime for...no reason! And I don't know how she thought Stick abandoned her. He ABANDONED Matt. Just left. But Elektra; she was given to a very wealthy (assumedly very nice) couple. Maybe it's not what she wanted but it's better than what Matt got!

Also, that scene in the final episode right before Elektra and Matt fight the Hand? That conversation where Matt wants to run away with Elektra was completely out of character. That is not Matt Murdock. He would not leave New York nearly that easily, especially not with Fisk running the show soon (I'll get to that soon), and he would NEVER still trust Elektra after everything she had done. If he didn't trust her when she first showed up this season, WHY THE **** WOULD HE NOW. HE WOULDN'T. Matt's a smart guy, that was a dumb move.

And then Elektra "died" to stop that, thankfully. I do wish Elektra would've given herself to the Hand in exchange for something (I dunno, pulling stuff out of my ass as I type) so that she could be killed by Bullseye instead. The fact that she's not dead is nice, but her death won't have the same impact twice, especially not the same way both times!

And finally...Punisher. Am I the only one that found him COMPLETELY uninteresting. He fell flat almost the whole show. There was moments here or there that I thought were nice, but overall I felt he was one of the weaker links. Maybe it was because I kept seeing Jon Bernthal, but he didn't feel like the Punisher. I felt like he had no build up or tension. He just mows down the Irish twenty minutes in (very sloppy might I add--very out of character) and then you see him going after Grotto twenty minutes later. The Punisher needed to be built up as a force of reckoning before he's a person. The Irish massacre should've been the end of the first episode and the first time you see Frank's face is at the end of the second when he ties DD to the chimney. In between that he can continue to mow down more gangsters. We could get Daredevil-esque action scenes where Punisher is hidden or mostly in shadow and we just see bodies falling all around.

But there was A LOT of good. Daredevil was spot on at every moment (sparring the one thing above), even more so when he got the new suit. Him laughing when he pulled the trigger on the empty gun in the new hallway fight was so perfect. Elektra was also pretty entertaining for the first half. I was also a big fan of the way they USED Punisher. Having Nelson and Murdock being his clients was a VERY good idea. I didn't think Frank would get arrested at all starting the show so that was a welcome surprise and a very good story plot. A lot of things tied into very nicely, too. I thought that was relatively well done.

And then...Fisk. Holy hell. He literally stole the show for me. His episode and the scene where Matt visits him in jail were the defining moments of the season for me. I forgot how freaking good D'Onofrio is as Fisk. They really nailed the Murdock/Fisk relationship here. The tension they built up as Matt was hearing his heartbeat was exhilarating. And Fisk just throwing Matt around like a doll after Matt so viciously threatened him--gold. Really glad they hinted at his return. A Born Again season 3 would honestly make me the happiest man in the world. And they're setting up the pieces pretty nicely.

Sorry for the crazy long post. I had a lot to say and I doubt I said it all. Can't wait to see where the show goes. Still one of my favorite superhero adaptions. I just hope they can find a better focus next season. I'd give it a 7/10.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

And finally...Punisher. Am I the only one that found him COMPLETELY uninteresting. He fell flat almost the whole show. There was moments here or there that I thought were nice, but overall I felt he was one of the weaker links. Maybe it was because I kept seeing Jon Bernthal, but he didn't feel like the Punisher. I felt like he had no build up or tension. He just mows down the Irish twenty minutes in (very sloppy might I add--very out of character) and then you see him going after Grotto twenty minutes later. The Punisher needed to be built up as a force of reckoning before he's a person. The Irish massacre should've been the end of the first episode and the first time you see Frank's face is at the end of the second when he ties DD to the chimney. In between that he can continue to mow down more gangsters. We could get Daredevil-esque action scenes where Punisher is hidden or mostly in shadow and we just see bodies falling all around.

You might be. Castle was in every scene that I have been gushing about. To name a few:
- His hospital infiltration with the sawnoff.
- The entire pawn shop sequence
- The DD fight where he was fighting with the handgun and the shots were almost in rhythm with the music
- The DD fight where the police were shooting at them
- The entire sequence with DD chained up on the rooftop
- The entire sequence with Punisher at the gravestone
- The prison cell block massacre and the fight v Kingpin while chained up. Kingpin obviously treating him like a rabid dog.
- The purposefully anti-climactic "one-shot, one-kill" v the Blacksmith when he agreed he would never change.

Putting a long-range tactical gunfighter in a show about ninjas and hand to hand combat should have been far more challenging than they made it seem.

The build up was not bad to me at all. I consider the first 12 episodes of this season Punisher's origin. His "man in black" moments just like the first 12 episodes in season one were for Matt. He had not accepted the "Punisher" mantle yet. And just like Matt at the end of S01E13, he finally became The Punisher at the end of S02E13.

I guess my qualms wouldve been not picturing Jon Bernthal in the role at first. Looks far scarier than "Frank Castle" in the comics. But... slowly realizing he redefined the character for me. He is scary. He is, to some degree, psychotic. My feelings would probably mirror many of Karen's on the matter. He scared her but she thought he was doing the right thing till she realized he would never stop.

****ing phenomenal

 

[Syncos]

And finally...Punisher. Am I the only one that found him COMPLETELY uninteresting.

Yeah. I think you are.

 

[Mike_D202]

I'm on episode 6 of the new season and I LOVE it so far, in my opinion they nailed the Punisher and John does an awesome job. I must have yelled "OHHH SH**!!!" about a dozen times so far.

 

[DrCosmic]

Loved it. Just a really solid story. I don't think they had a solid hand on the Hand (a-hyuk), and Elektra was a bit wonky at times, but there was so much good here.

I can't imagine a better storyline for the Punisher. I've watched as many Punisher movies as I can stand and they bore me to tears. This guy, this guy here... there was something really magical that happened in Episode 2 or 3 when DD was chained to a chimney and they were arguing... it stopped sounding like a choreographed argument and it became just two guys yelling at each other, as two wackos in costumes who think they are a one man army would likely do, in my mind. They became so human in that moment, that THAT carried the rest of the season for me. So when Frank was tired in the graveyard, or when he just ended his C.O., it just felt... so grounded. Seeing him on the rooftop with the symbol and the trench coat... I've never seen anyone more heroic.

Matt was solid, as a lead. I find most leads to be boring and overhyped in a certain way. It's hard for me to care too much about someone whom the world revolves around but doesn't know it. Usually people are the opposite. I think there was something powerful about Matt actually living up to the 'people close to me get hurt,' and that being a real true thing for him in a way it isn't true of Spider-Man or anyone else who says that foolishness. And DD did the real simple thing of pushing everyone away... except Elektra, and, well... now he wants to get back with Karen...

Karen's arc is one I really appreciate. That moment with Wesley re-defined her and they milked that for all it was worth. Her as the narrator makes a kind of sense that works for me. I think she is one of the most solid characters, and her arc is probably the best apology for killing Ben Urich that we could really ask for. I also commend the show for really pulling these characters apart in a way that doesn't just get fixed by episode one of next season.

Speaking of, Foggy grew up. Another really big accomplishment to me. The guys who fall into this trope never really get to get ahead. You need Foggy to be a bit of a loser so Matt can seem cooler, and extra cool because his bestie is a loser and he doesn't care. But the show let that go, and with a smooth crossover to put a cherry on top. Hogarth saying "try me" was worth its weight in gold. And it wasn't sudden, they built up to it, and it was beautiful.

Elektra was also beautiful. And deadly, and everything Elektra should be... except, she wasn't quite deep, which is weird when surrounded by all these others. She ended up, in retrospect, a literal plot device, and an unexplained one at that. That's a sad way to go for such an icon. Still, without thinking about her too long, she was still great, and the idea that Matt can be herself around her actually carried some weight.

And speaking of weight, Kingpin's showing here was brilliant. That is how you set up for a future season! There were lots of other great moments here, with Claire probably heading off to Harlem and all that to boot.

As to what that future will entail, who knows? Hopefully it's as awesome as DD2, with the dark female with a bit more depth and a big bad with a bit more menace.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Is there any one well versed in the art of GIF, I have a request to make one, I tried but failed ( video format is wrong, I tried to convert it to no avail, I only have VLC to convert and Windows Movie Maker to sequence it and it didn't work ).

It is in EP 012, it starts at 49:28 and ends at 49:31 , you see Frank fingers twitching at the sight of the minigun.

Edit : if it requires too much work and hassle, don't bother, it's no big deal.

 

[socool]

Yeah. I think you are.

I assumed so. It was a mostly rhetorical question.

 

[ernesth100]

I wonder what kinda reception it would get if they released two episodes of each season together as movies in theaters what kinda reception they'd get.

 

[Spectacular23]

His last name was Gibson, not Rand.

Lol right. C'mon son.

Nobody's said anything because it clearly wasn't Danny Rand.

LOL DUH Specs.... How the hell I miss that??? My ba dfolks happens to the best of ust:

 

[GENERAL RAAM582]

I wonder what kinda reception it would get if they released two episodes of each season together as movies in theaters what kinda reception they'd get.

That would be absolutely terrible. We would be on Daredevil 13 now.

 

[the last son]

I assumed so. It was a mostly rhetorical question.

You're not. Punisher was just there imo. I like bernthal, but he was miscast to me and this take on punisher didn't do him any favors. Not terrible, but just average. Made way too much a hero for my liking and not an anti hero

 

[Smilodon]

I'm not one of those people that raved about S1. I liked both S1 and S2, but they're both around an 8/10 for me. Not the best thing put on TV, but certainly the best superhero show out there.

Liked some of the JJ tie-ins, but the third act of the season felt really weak compared to the some of the better paced Punisher eps and the more heartfelt Elektra eps. Nobu is a terrible villain and just makes something that can be seen as a racist caricature that much worse. Story also couldn't support the action at times unfortunately.

That being said, the standouts to me this season were most definitely Jon and Elodie, as well as the strong returning cast. Enjoyed it a ton and cannot wait for Luke Cage!!!

 

[rogue trooper]

Finished it yesterday. A very solid follow up! Albeit tweaks here and there, this, like season 1, gloriously captures Frank Miller's run! All actors did a splendid job. Jon Bernthal is the one who finally nailed the role of Frank Castle completely! Elodie Young effectively captured Elektra's lustful drive! Marvel/Netflix, with DD season 1, Jessica Jones, and now DD season 2, it remains the medium that I currently favor in adapting Marvel characters to celluloid world. Bring on Luke Cage and Iron Fist!

 

[Punisher_MAX]

You're not. Punisher was just there imo. I like bernthal, but he was miscast to me and this take on punisher didn't do him any favors. Not terrible, but just average. Made way too much a hero for my liking and not an anti hero

did we watch the same season? The Punisher is not a hero, he doesn't do anything heroic, he does what needs to be done.

 

[the last son]

did we watch the same season? The Punisher is not a hero, he doesn't do anything heroic, he does what needs to be done.

then why did Karen ramble on about how she agrees with him. And it seems a third of the people giving opinions in court thought he was. Dd just gives a wink and a nod to punisher instead of going after him. He must not be too bad if dd is letting him go on his merry way.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Karen doesn't agree with him, she understands him and understands that he is not a serial killer.

 

[yllum]

Season 2 of dd was announced 2-3 days after s1 release.

We still haven't got news of s3 announcement. sad!

 

[fixxxer]

^

I don't think one should read too much into that thoguh. Think of Defenders as season 3 of Daredevil (and the rest). I don't think they can push out Defenders any further down the line. That there will be a season 3 (proper) though, whether it's before, or more likely, after, is a given.

 

[ctsketch]

then why did Karen ramble on about how she agrees with him. And it seems a third of the people giving opinions in court thought he was. Dd just gives a wink and a nod to punisher instead of going after him. He must not be too bad if dd is letting him go on his merry way.

because karen shot a man dead in season 1...or did you forget? she is trying to make herself feel better and trying to feel better about being saved by men like Daredevil