Dark Knight Rises vs Iron Man 3: Which Movie Inspired the Worse Fan Backlash?

[Tony Stark]

Gotta love when fans think something is fact.

And where exactly did I say it was a fact. This is an opinion poll after all.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

And where exactly did I say it was a fact. This is an opinion poll after all.

Anno needs to be reminded opinions are opinions. Apparently that's not something that sticks to people as much as one thinks.

 

[Tony Stark]

I'm not saying there isn't some inconsistency with TDKR, because there is.

There's no real answer as to how Talia and Bane become aware of Bruce and Batman being the same(except that the idea is probably because they are aligned with the LoS, so they "must know"), and there is faulty logic with the Dent Act and one must make a complete leap of faith in how it continued for eight years(I'm fine with the idea that Ramirez fled Gotham and would never shed light on the truth because she would find herself in trouble too as an accomplice for attempted murder as she helped kidnapped Dent while Wuertz was the accomplice that helped bring Rachel to her doom), with Mr. Reese being alive and no one demands answers from him about who Batman is or that Gordon's family stayed silent about the whole ordeal with Two-Face.

I even have my questions regarding the bomb as well, as I agreed with your two complaints about that subject, but for the other things you mentioned...they definitely have to call for you to think about it, but they never feel like real plot holes. It's only the viewer that would suggest it without realizing the answers to those "plot holes".

They are plot holes, ones big enough to fit a mac truck in. Sorry but do you think if a terrorist organization took over the island of Manhattan, the US government would sit back on their heels for 6 months?


If you like the movie fine. I like movies that have plot holes, but to deny them as plot holes. The problem with DKR is it tries to be so serious the plot holes are glaring. Talia's death is so obnoxiously bad, because it stands out against some good performances by the other actors.

I think it goes to show how far Nolan has his head up his rectum the fact that he worked on the film for 4 years and didn't notice those kinds of things.

 

[redfirebird2008]

I think it goes to show how far Nolan has his head up his rectum the fact that he worked on the film for 4 years and didn't notice those kinds of things.

He did not work on the film for 4 years. 2 of the years between TDK and TDKR were spent on Inception, a huge budget production with location shooting all over the world.

 

[Anno_Domini]

And where exactly did I say it was a fact. This is an opinion poll after all.

IM3 definitely got more fan backlash, but IM3 is memorable if only for the twist like it or not.

Anno needs to be reminded opinions are opinions. Apparently that's not something that sticks to people as much as one thinks.

Yah...maybe read my reply bud

They are plot holes, ones big enough to fit a mac truck in. Sorry but do you think if a terrorist organization took over the island of Manhattan, the US government would sit back on their heels for 6 months?

Of course not, and the government didn't "sit back on their heels" for six months as they sent in Special Forces into Gotham during the siege.

If you like the movie fine. I like movies that have plot holes, but to deny them as plot holes. The problem with DKR is it tries to be so serious the plot holes are glaring. Talia's death is so obnoxiously bad, because it stands out against some good performances by the other actors.

Although they're not plot holes if they're not inconsistent. Somethings that are answered by means of straight forward dialogue or that's shown to the audience in different manners should not be considered plot holes. Somethings that AREN'T answered by any means can be considered plot holes as well as inconsistencies that makes absolutely no sense.

I think it goes to show how far Nolan has his head up his rectum the fact that he worked on the film for 4 years and didn't notice those kinds of things.

2 years.

Nolan only started work on TDKR's script in 2010.

 

[Tony Stark]

Way to misread that!

Weather anyone likes the twist or not, it's going to be remembered for the twist.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Ah!

Well spank me silly(well, not you...unless you're into that...I keed).

So IM3 will be remembered for the twist? To THAT, I agree.

 

[spider-neil]

Nolan is a great director who has coaxed great performances from actors, how on earth did the Talia death scene get by him? That has got to be THE worst death I've ever seen and I've seen Max Van Sydow die in Judge Dredd.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Not even close, lol.

[YT]0EM5N_z8_TY[/YT]

 

[metaphysician]

Eh, when faced with a literal nuclear hostage situation, created by a terrorist who is sending distinctively mixed messages? I can see them being extremely cautious. While there are timing issues, those are really more related to the pacing of the movie in general.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Not even close, lol.

Not even close? Her death scene is as comical as the guy in the video you posted that was getting shot multiple times by the woman.

[YT]SFxQ-EdFl_M[/YT]

 

[henzINNIT]

That death scene is horrendous. There's a few surprisingly hokey moments in TDKR, Nolan's campiest film.

 

[NosfeRomas]

Whenever i look at that face she makes when she dies i want to laugh !

She is a great actress and i loved the film but that was just baaaaad !

 

[Anno_Domini]

Not even close? Her death scene is as comical as the guy in the video you posted that was getting shot multiple times by the woman.

[YT]SFxQ-EdFl_M[/YT]

Not even close is correct. Marion was great for the entire film right until the death, but it wasn't THE worst death scene of all time, or even close to the top worst death scenes. Is it bad, oh hell yes, but definitely not one of the worst.

 

[Tony Stark]

I think the problem is that I don't think Nolan meant for her death scene to be funny. He must have been asleep at the wheel when that scene was films, or had a long day and just said "**** it! check the gate!"

 

[Iron_Stark]

Not even close is correct. Marion was great for the entire film right until the death, but it wasn't THE worst death scene of all time, or even close to the top worst death scenes. Is it bad, oh hell yes, but definitely not one of the worst.

Come on man, I know you're a huge fan and all, but this ranks as one of the worst death scenes in cinema history. To have an actress of her caliber, a director if that caliber and a high profile movie of that caliber, and for them to get that on camera and actually think that was good? I'm not saying they should've followed terminal cancer patients around to see how they die, but jeez, anything other than her doing what she did would've been better. Even my 10 years old nephew thought that looked hokey.

 

[Snow Queen]

You need to watch more movies if you think that's one of the worst in cinematic history. As Anno said, it's bad, but it's far from the worst. Especially not compared to things like Karate Girl, The Room's suicide and events surrounding, Subzero, Snake in the Eagle's Shadow, Asylum Erotica, Death Warrior and many more.

[YT]9iC45-tMR34[/YT]

That one is easily worse and probably the worst I've ever seen.

 

[dru-zod2501]

IM3 by far has earned more fanrage from my perspective, and with much better reason.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Come on man, I know you're a huge fan and all, but this ranks as one of the worst death scenes in cinema history. To have an actress of her caliber, a director if that caliber and a high profile movie of that caliber, and for them to get that on camera and actually think that was good? I'm not saying they should've followed terminal cancer patients around to see how they die, but jeez, anything other than her doing what she did would've been better. Even my 10 years old nephew thought that looked hokey.

Anyone who would dare to say Talia's death is one of the worst death scenes in cinema needs to watch WAY more films to open their eyes.

It's bad, but it does NOT rank in the worst death scenes.

You need to watch more movies if you think that's one of the worst in cinematic history. As Anno said, it's bad, but it's far from the worst. Especially not compared to things like Karate Girl, The Room's suicide and events surrounding, Subzero, Snake in the Eagle's Shadow, Asylum Erotica, Death Warrior and many more.

[YT]9iC45-tMR34[/YT]

That one is easily worse and probably the worst I've ever seen.

 

[Iron_Stark]

The death scenes ya'll keep mentioning are from cheap low budget movies with no talent actors. Marion Cotillard is an award winning actress and Christopher Nolan is a prestigious director who's won awards, and you mean to tell me that was the best they could do? When the scene asked for her to die after she gave a monologue, she and the director thought it was best if she just close her eyes and let her head go limp? Really? It looked amateurish at best.

I'm wondering if Nolan actually thought that was a good performance or just said "F this, I'm ready to cash my check and get the hell outta here."

 

[Anno_Domini]

Lol, you don't just bring up an actor's status to prove your point that one death scene is worse than the other because her death scene doesn't negate her status. People don't like it, and people know of far worse death scenes as well.

 

[Tony Stark]

Yeah most of you seem to be missing the point. I don't think Nolan meant for her death scene to be horrible, but that's what it ended up being. I also think he thought it looked cool seeing those swarm of cops rushing into open fire like it was freaking Braveheart or something, but it looked ridiculous.

Nolan's best film making remains what he did with Memento. The more budget he's had to work with, it's made his film making less noteworthy. Sometimes a director needs to be restrained, and my favorite Nolan films are the ones where he didn't have an unlimited effects budget. Memento was the best, followed by the Prestige.

 

[Spider-Fan]

It's funny that the Mandarin twist get the most backlash out of anything compared to TDKR and yet TDKR ended up being the better film regardless t:

This is quite arguable. IM3 I felt was miles better than TDKR. Not even close.

Lol, you don't just bring up an actor's status to prove your point that one death scene is worse than the other because her death scene doesn't negate her status. People don't like it, and people know of far worse death scenes as well.

I think it doesn't help her death scene that no one cares about her in the movie cause she was barely in it and didn't respect her as a main threat. Nolan decided to knock the villain the audience liked down a peg at the last second instead. At least Killian was revealed earlier and had time to earn his reputation as the film's villain. Talia didn't get that chance, and for me it fell flat big time.

 

[Squaremaster316]

Amongst the numerous glaring problems with Iron Man 3, one of the most notorious is that Shane Black is terrible when it comes to misdirection.

The first obvious fail is during the flashback where Killian is introduced as a spurned fan, then returns years later to apparently "do nothing but gloat to Stark" about his success.

Showing someone in a flashback during the opening scene pretty much guarantees that they will become a major player in the film. Even if you didn't know at first that he was the MAIN bad guy, you at least know that he is in league with them in some fashion.

From what I understand, Black was a script doctor on the first Iron Man film, which also featured a very contrived, predictable "heel turn" for Obadiah Stane. Ironic how the guy who once had a child actor blatantly spell out this exact same action movie cliche 15 years prior in "Last Action Hero" uses the trope to the letter in a later film.

The other one was when Pepper fell into the fire. It acts like we are supposed to acknowledge that this character is dead, but the problem is that earlier she was subjected to the Extremis process and had shown no signs of reaction to it beforehand, pretty much guaranteeing that she'll be back to display her new found powers, similar to X-Men Origins where Silverfox not-so-subtly displayed her mind control abilities on a random thug before declaring it "female power of persuasion", indicating that her true mutant nature would be displayed later on, so her death scene was not convincing.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Yeah most of you seem to be missing the point. I don't think Nolan meant for her death scene to be horrible, but that's what it ended up being. I also think he thought it looked cool seeing those swarm of cops rushing into open fire like it was freaking Braveheart or something, but it looked ridiculous.

I am certainly not missing the point because I can surely agree with this. When it comes to Nolan's work, what he has on paper can be different on the screen, but what he has in his mind could also look different on screen. I bet he didn't think Talia's death scene would get that much flack for it, but it definitely looked odd to say the least that her head fluttered like that before she died, although maybe Nolan had a point of her becoming paralyzed neck down during that fall and that's why all of her movement is of her head. Who knows.

Nolan's best film making remains what he did with Memento. The more budget he's had to work with, it's made his film making less noteworthy. Sometimes a director needs to be restrained, and my favorite Nolan films are the ones where he didn't have an unlimited effects budget. Memento was the best, followed by the Prestige.

I love Memento, but I will always says Nolan's best film is The Prestige. Everything about that film is just damn near flawless, imo.

This is quite arguable. IM3 I felt was miles better than TDKR. Not even close.

I feel the exact opposite, lol, but I'm glad you enjoyed IM3

I think it doesn't help her death scene that no one cares about her in the movie cause she was barely in it and didn't respect her as a main threat. Nolan decided to knock the villain the audience liked down a peg at the last second instead. At least Killian was revealed earlier and had time to earn his reputation as the film's villain. Talia didn't get that chance, and for me it fell flat big time.

I actually think the audience was able to like Talia, but as Miranda from the start to think she's one of the reasons that's trying to get Bruce out of his slump by helping Gotham City with that clean energy project, but you start to get hints of the idea that Miranda may actually be a villain...getting him to stop thinking about Rachel, sleeping with him and trying to get him to leave with her and all of those "nods" make even more sense after the film is over where you understand those Talia references throughout of TDKR before the actual reveal, but I do agree that Nolan didn't give Talia her all as a character.

Still, even with that, I like that more than Killian being Mandarin. What bugs me the most about IM3 is the combination of Adrian Killian and The Mandarin. It was bad enough Favreau did that with Whiplash and Crimson Dynamo in IM2. Ben Kinglsey did a remarkable job as the visage of Mandarin before the reveal and Guy Pearce was certainly interesting before the big reveal as well...it's just when the reveal happens, I tossed up my hands that the two characters were combined as one where Mandarin should have been his own character(and played by Kingsley, of course). I'm sure many of the CB community felt that way too.