Dream Team League (Discussion)

[Harlekin]

I don't know how/if they're separated. It's all one city so I say take the battle where ever you want.

It's basically like in the image. The upper part's open air. The part beneath it is in the water. They're separated by tubes of some kind as I recall. Corp can probably give you details.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't remember much of it myself, actually. I do know that there were two parts--an underwater portion for the city's inhabitants and a portion filled with air for tourists (Poseidonis was a tourist attraction for a while)--but I don't remember much of the actual geography of the city.

 

[wiegeabo]

Just FYI, I will try and post a write up this Monday as I am off to Barcelona for the weekend.

This reminds about the discussion of changing the schedule around.


Here's how the schedule is now:
Day 1: Voting ends and new matches start.
Day 2: writeups
Day 3: writeups
Day 4: Writeups close, debating only starts.
Day 5: debates
Day 6: Lineups for new matches due, voting on current matches start.
Day 7: votes

With Day 1 starting on Friday.


Now, there have been two suggestions brought up on the scheduling:

The first is to shift the days around so Friday is no longer Day 1. (For example, if Day 1 is Monday, then Day 4 is Thursday, and Day 6 is Saturday.)

The second is to stop the overlap between weeks. So lineups wouldn't be due until the current week of matches ends.



Now, for me, I'd rather keep the bulk of writeup time on the weekends. But it wouldn't kill me if it was shifted to the weekdays. (Well, it probably wouldn't kill me.)

And if we can find a way to end matches before having to worry about the next matches, without sacrificing read/writeup times, I'd be for it.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm cool with weekend write-ups if we could just move Day 1 either forward or backward a day. Friday is the absolute worst day for me, since I work almost non-stop from 8 a.m. to 10 p.m.

 

[X]

Er, could voting close at like 6:30 or 7:00 tonight so I can get around to reading everything?

 

[Blacklight]

I'd like it better if write-ups were on weekdays when I'm not working. That's why I missed this last week.

 

[wiegeabo]

Er, could voting close at like 6:30 or 7:00 tonight so I can get around to reading everything?

It'll probably be later than that since I've got a thing after work.

 

[wiegeabo]

I'd like it better if write-ups were on weekdays when I'm not working. That's why I missed this last week.

Which days are those?

 

[Blacklight]

Which days are those?

Any except Fri, Sat and Sun.

 

[Khellendros]

Okay, based on X's post about Atom:

The Atom being taken out period didn't make much sense as Ray's shrunken between the wavelengths of energy after a nuclear explosion and survived.

Maybe there was some magic in Doom's blast.

I want to bring up, again, the fact that I think Atom being a regular is bull****. Am I really alone on this?

 

[Nightwing]

im all for any schedule as my shifts rotate all the time so ill just have to squeeze in doing my write up in between.

As for Atom being more than a reg....care to explain why you think this?

the guy can shrink between the very waves of infrared,xray,radiation etc and is a damn good scientist...thats it...Hank Pym who can change his form both ways hes a medium...but thats only cos his strength levels increase as he grows...Palmer isnt a fighter nor is he super strong.

 

[Who?]

It is probably the whole he can shrink so small that only a select few can touch him or detect him. Technically he could take out quite a few of the ubers in this.

 

[Khellendros]

As for Atom being more than a reg....care to explain why you think this?

the guy can shrink between the very waves of infrared,xray,radiation etc and is a damn good scientist...thats it...Hank Pym who can change his form both ways hes a medium...but thats only cos his strength levels increase as he grows...Palmer isnt a fighter nor is he super strong.

I think this because, honestly, point to a reg who has a chance of even detecting him at that size. Does telepathy even work on someone that small (do we even have telepathic regs for that matter?)? I know he proved magic won't work on him when he gets small enough. I mean, I know everyone wants the best regulars they can get, but shouldn't our regulars at least have a CHANCE of challenging the other regulars? I'm not saying he's Uber, but Reg still seems too low.

 

[XFanTim]

Well, Deathstroke detected him in Identity Crisis, but I thought that was bull****.

I'd assume telepathy works against the Atom unless it's been shown otherwise. I've always viewed the Atom as kind of like intangible regs, in that he's damn hard to kill and can potentially take down an uber, but he still has just one fairly basic power. Arguably the Atom is harder to kill, though -- I mean with someone like Shadowcat you still know where she is, and can hit her with attacks that do affect her (telepathy, super-dense projectiles, cut off her air supply, disorient her with illusions, etc.) Whereas Atom in many cases you won't even know where he is until he's attacking you.

I could see an argument to bump him to medium, but no higher.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I think this because, honestly, point to a reg who has a chance of even detecting him at that size. Does telepathy even work on someone that small (do we even have telepathic regs for that matter?)? I know he proved magic won't work on him when he gets small enough. I mean, I know everyone wants the best regulars they can get, but shouldn't our regulars at least have a CHANCE of challenging the other regulars? I'm not saying he's Uber, but Reg still seems too low.

That is a good point. My first instinct was to say, "Well, anybody who could get to that size would be able to punch Darkseid's brain out or do any of the impressive feats Ray's done; it doesn't take any special powers beyond getting smaller." But then I realized that I could say the same about the Hulk or Thor or any characters with more traditional, overt power sets--anyone could do what they do if they were strong enough to crush steel in their bare hands or knew how to use a hammer that could do all kinds of crazy junk. So yeah, given how potent a power shrinking to the Atom's levels is when in the right hands (and it's indisputable that Ray's are pretty much as right a pair of hands for that power as you can get), I wouldn't mind a bump to mid.

 

[Khellendros]

Well, Deathstroke detected him in Identity Crisis, but I thought that was bull****.

Actually, if I remember correctly, he just saw him in the midst of shrinking, and seemed to extrapolate where to point the laser from there.

I'd assume telepathy works against the Atom unless it's been shown otherwise. I've always viewed the Atom as kind of like intangible regs, in that he's damn hard to kill and can potentially take down an uber, but he still has just one fairly basic power.

Yeah, but also intangibles have to solidify at least PART of themselves to touch you, and a good and skilled reg could capitalize on that as seen in Death's fight with Shadowcat. Ray can **** you up at just about any size, far as I know.

Arguably the Atom is harder to kill, though -- I mean with someone like Shadowcat you still know where she is, and can hit her with attacks that do affect her (telepathy, super-dense projectiles, cut off her air supply, disorient her with illusions, etc.) Whereas Atom in many cases you won't even know where he is until he's attacking you.

I could see an argument to bump him to medium, but no higher.

Exactly. No freakin' way is he an Uber, but he's just **** as a regular.

 

[Dark Gog]

Concerning the schedule, I personally don't see a reason to limit voting time so much. I'd have no problem extending it to a few days, possibly even at the expense of overlapping with other parts of the competition. The line-ups and voting portions of this tournament are clearly the least demanding, after-all.

I'd still prefer it if the match cycle started early in the week, and wouldn't be opposed to extending it somewhere between two or four days.

 

[Dark Gog]

The Atalanteans venerate the Olympians, correct?

What level of tech do they possess? What animal life can be found there? And how tough is the dome?

Just FYI, I will try and post a write up this Monday as I am off to Barcelona for the weekend.

Footie?

Go have a happy birthday and what-not.

 

[Dark Gog]

Hey DG some questions about your characters (open to others to answer if they know it)

Is Vixen that lass who can summon the strength of elephants and the grip of snakes etc?

and is Darkseid aware that Miracle Man was born with the Anti Life equation and also is it apart of him/is it in his head?what is it exactly?

I missed this post entirely until now. Sorry Nightwing.

Vixen's powers have been covered extensively already. I am using her classic incarnation, not her present one, which could still prove a good pick for anyone looking for a power-copier.

For future reference, to the best of my knowledge, only Scott Free, Orion, and possibly Barda know about this turn of events. Well.. perhaps Shilo Norman does as well. Darkseid certainly doesn't. This may have changed as of the Death of the New Gods series, but I don't think we're to use new continuity this season either way.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Nope, Death of the New Gods is an ongoing storyline and thus barred from use in the DTL.

 

[XFanTim]

I agree that overlapping matches is annoying, but so is not having enough time to write or to vote.

I don't know if anyone would go for this -- but if we just made each match last a week and a half instead of a week, there'd be plenty of time for writeups and voting without overlapping matches. It would make the season take longer, but to me it's worth it if it makes it easier for people to maintain a higher level of participation.

 

[XFanTim]

Figure I might as well try and get discussion of some sort going to liven this thread up a little.

Okay, going to try and make a case. For the Super Skrull.

I still believe he should be an elite middleweight, and here be the reasons.

First of all, regardless of his powers on paper, tell me if he looks like uber material here, against the Gray Hulk, fighting him on more or less even terms. This isn't the Skrull fighting like an idiot, he's using his powers intelligently and in conjunction with one another.

http://img31.echo.cx/img31/3184/superskrull1d6xr.jpg
http://img31.echo.cx/img31/2715/superskrull1e1wq.jpg
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/3654/superskrull1f8jc.jpg

Seems to be at a disadvantage against Ravenous, who Ronan would beat moments later. The same Ronan that's in this thing as an elite Middleweight.

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd10/RespectRavenous/Fights/fight 4/1.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd10/RespectRavenous/Fights/fight 4/2.jpg

Beaten by the Silver Surfer with a single punch.

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/2213/silversurferv3105p12mk3.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5638/silversurferv3105p13ak7.jpg

Speaking of Ronan, we've seen him do far better against the combined Fantastic Four than The Super Skrull has.

The Invisible Woman ALONE has beaten the Super Skrull.

Thoughts?

The problem is in all those fights Super Skrull apparently opted not to use his forcefields. I certainly believe that Super Skrull without forcefields would be a medium (that's why Skrullian Skymaster, who was never shown to have forcefields, is a med). But anyone who has Skrull in the DTL would surely have him use his forcefields, and use them intelligently.

I think a comparison between Super Skrull and Mimic is reasonable.

Super Skrull has:
- Invisible Woman's forcefields (medium level)
- Thing's strength/durability (medium level)
- Mr. Fantastic's elasticity (reg level)
- Human Torch's flame (reg level)
- Skrull shapeshifting (reg level)

To me, the powers of two mediums and three regs are good enough to make an uber -- especially when you consider that he supposedly has amped-up versions of the FF's powers.

Mimic (Exiles) has:
- 50% Collosus's strength/durability (reg level at 50%)
- 50% Northstar's speed and flight (reg level even at 100%)
- 50% Cyclops' optic blast (reg level even at 100%)
- healing factor (50% Wolverine + 50% Deadpool) and bone claws (adds up to one reg)
- ability to copy a mutant power (not that useful since he only copies mutants, he only gets them at 50% of the original, he can't copy ubers under DTL rules since he's a medium, and he must drop a powerset to do it)

So Mimic adds up to about 5 regs, which is clearly weaker than Super Skrull's 2 mediums and three regs. Other versions of AOA Mimic substitute Beast's strength/agility or Angel's flight for one of the other powers, which isn't really a step up. 616 Mimic is (and has always been) an uber, because he has Jean Grey's power.

Anyway, I agree that Super Skrull won't be used much as an uber, but making him a medium would just shift things so that Invisible Woman was a pointless medium to take. (You can point out her beating him if you want, but DTL owners will use Skrull's powerset better than he sometimes does, and there's no way they'd be better off with Sue.) As it is now, there's a Super Skrull without Sue's forcefields who's a medium (Skrullian Skymaster), there's Sue with her forcefields as a medium (in both good and evil versions), and there's a character with both powers as an uber, namely Super Skrull. I don't really see a problem with that.

 

[Dark Gog]

Ranking for the following?

-The Exemplars
-Gilgamesh (I'm guessing people will instinctively say uber, but what was the extent of his powers, other than strength?)
-The Mandarin (Uber?)
-Iron Man with Mother Box
-The Crimson Avenger
-Anti-Fate
-Nabu
-Typhon
-Metron (Mid-tier? Uber? Tuber?)
-The Black Swan
-Big Barda
-Tim Hunter (Young and alternate versions.)
-Vixen (Current.)

Naturally, I had a slew of others until it came time to writing them down.

The only ones I'm personally looking into getting at the moment are Stark and CA. (And maybe Metron as a Mid.)


I had a few questions regarding Black Alice's use in this thing as well, and skimming backposts at random, I wonder if everyone were fully aware of her abilities when they signed-off on her. Posts like this lend me the impression they might not have been:

Not universally. I'm pretty sure everyone who can copy unlimited numbers of powers and keep them indefinitely would be considered too uber. Amazo, Composite Man, and Super Adaptoid have all been ruled too uber.

Exiles Mimic is allowed as a medium, since he only copies up to five powers and his starting powers are all reg-level (even Colossus power might be reg since Mimic only gets it at 50% strength). 616 Mimic is allowed as an uber, since he starts with Jean Grey's power. So far as I know Paragon is still allowed as an uber even though he can copy unlimited powers, since he has no starting powers and he loses any copied powers if you go out of range (plus he can't copy androids, weapons, tech, etc.)

In any case, I was wondering about the potential for latteral advancement for characters once on the battle-field. In particular, I'm asking for clarification as to the limits of the less potent power-copiers (Vixen and Animal Man are not normally as formidable as others, but if an opponent fields a higher-ranked character they can duplicate, or possibly if the arena calls for it, should they not be allowed to capitalize on it?), and amalgams (one of my characters this week holds the power to make chimeras).


On an unrelated not, perhaps the Update thread should contain detailed info and/or links on future locations.

 

[Who?]

Hmphffff. I was going to ask about the Exemplars....

Was there any limit to CA? Did the guns ever fail to kill someone?

 

[DTL Commish]

Week 2 voting is now over.


I'll post the week 3 matches tomorrow. But everyone should know who they're fighting already.