The Dark Knight Rises Eckhart on Dent returning: "I could not possibly say."

[hatebox]

I don't begrudge anyone having wacky theories as to how Dent could still be alive. But the shot of Gordon in front of a giant picture of Dent strongly hinting it was his funeral seemed pretty damn definitive to me. It'd be far too much of a rug-pulling to have him turn up in the next film.

 

[RoughNTumble]

I always thought it'd be more compelling if harvey survived the fall, but they moved him to a secret cell at arkham so no one knew.

 

[DaveMoral]

What the hell is it exactly that's being discussed? Eckhart clearly is having everyone on by being coy and everyone's falling for it hook, line and sinker.

Clearly this has sparked a discussion of the merits of a returned Two-Face and how that effects the narrative elements of TDK. Does it undermine the whole point of Batman taking the fall for Two-Face's crimes or doesn't it? Would it add something to the story?

Further, with the third film being titled The Dark Knight Rises one has to wonder just exactly what that means. My first impression is that it has something to do with Batman's reputation being cleared in the public eye. So how would Two-Face being alive effect that? Or might it make the title all the more significant?

It's not as if this thread is talking about nothing, regardless of what Eckhart is or isn't doing with his little grin. If he's taking the piss he's taking the piss, but that doesn't invalidate the merits of discussing the possibility of Two-Face being in the movie or the effects that would have both on the trajectory of the new film but also the conclusion of the last film.

If you had your druthers, in the absence of any news, there would be nothing to discuss and thus defeat the point of these discussion boards.

 

[regwec]

Well said, Dave.

I always thought it'd be more compelling if harvey survived the fall, but they moved him to a secret cell at arkham so no one knew.

Hypothetically, I imagined Two Face being held in a comfortable little cell in the Batcave. I can picture him glaring through his dead eye at the coin in Batman's trophy cabinet, beyond the iron bars!

 

[Doctor Who]

I love the new update! Harvey Dent is truly truly dead, and he's never coming back!

But Two-Face on the other hand....... LOL

 

[RustyCage]

I don't begrudge anyone having wacky theories as to how Dent could still be alive. But the shot of Gordon in front of a giant picture of Dent strongly hinting it was his funeral seemed pretty damn definitive to me. It'd be far too much of a rug-pulling to have him turn up in the next film.

I think the rug-pulling is what makes it so great, personally. A good shock like that would make the story arc more intense.

In regard to the shot of Gordon infront of a giant picture of Dent: Your impression of that is exactly what the impression would have hypothetically been intended to be on the people of Gotham if they were covering up his survival. Funerals can be faked. It would obviously be Batman and Gordon's goal to make it convincing.

 

[the amazing fro]

Batman and Gordon faking harvey's death and keeping him prisoner (when the man clearly needs both medical and psychiatric attention)? Seems extremely immoral to me (more-so than lying to an entire city and covering up several murders- the nobility of that seemed to make up for it). But imprisoning Harvey? Is it a step too far? It would be interesting to see the moral implications though.

Dead or not, the legacy of dent is an interesting concept that I hope (and assume) Nolan will carry on with. The ramifications of all the that he did that night should loom over the movie and over batman's soul....

Oooh getting deep there.

 

[Avengers-Report]

I think the rug-pulling is what makes it so great, personally. A good shock like that would make the story arc more intense.

In regard to the shot of Gordon infront of a giant picture of Dent: Your impression of that is exactly what the impression would have hypothetically been intended to be on the people of Gotham if they were covering up his survival. Funerals can be faked. It would obviously be Batman and Gordon's goal to make it convincing.

It's true. If Nolan wanted to convince us he was dead, there are much better ways to do it. The fact that Dent's death is not 100% addressed in the movie breathes a little life into these rumors.

 

[Yurka]

Exactly, the script says his neck breaks and he dies, yet in the movie Batman twists Harveys head, they never state he's dead, its just implied through the funeral scene.

 

[jonathancrane]

It's true. If Nolan wanted to convince us he was dead, there are much better ways to do it. The fact that Dent's death is not 100% addressed in the movie breathes a little life into these rumors.

Very true. It doesn't hurt the chances.

 

[TigerBlood]

I think theres DEFINITELY a strong possibility Two Face will be used in TDKR. Of course Nolan and Eckhart are going to keep saying Harvey is dead bc it's true. Harvey died in the 3rd act of TDK but like everyone has said Harvey Two Face lives on. Still Nolan would never tell you about a massive plot twist in a film he hasn't even started to shoot yet. He didn't acknowledge Two Face's appearance until a few months before the film came out. You think he's going to spoil something people would go nuts for this early or even at all?

 

[Infinity9999x]

The biggest factors against Two-Face at this point are the other villains. I don't think you can include Two-Face, Catwoman, and Bane without one of those characters suffering in terms of screen time and development. I mean, yes, everyone holds up TDK as a good example of how to juggle multiple characters, and Nolan did do that well. But he's never had three major villains in one film before.

I just don't think it would be wise to include Two-Face while still needing to expand upon Bane's and Catwoman's characters. One of them are going to suffer, and odds are, it would be Bane, since he's the easiest to turn into the "brute/muscle" character. And I really don't want to see the character get the short end of the stick yet again.

 

[Saint]

What the hell is it exactly that's being discussed? Eckhart clearly is having everyone on by being coy and everyone's falling for it hook, line and sinker.

Sorry, I thought I made it clear that I don't care whether you value the discussion or not. Others do, and you are free to go elsewhere. The Hype, happily, is a big place, and I'm sure you'll find something out there that pleases you.

 

[RustyCage]

The biggest factors against Two-Face at this point are the other villains. I don't think you can include Two-Face, Catwoman, and Bane without one of those characters suffering in terms of screen time and development. I mean, yes, everyone holds up TDK as a good example of how to juggle multiple characters, and Nolan did do that well. But he's never had three major villains in one film before.

I just don't think it would be wise to include Two-Face while still needing to expand upon Bane's and Catwoman's characters. One of them are going to suffer, and odds are, it would be Bane, since he's the easiest to turn into the "brute/muscle" character. And I really don't want to see the character get the short end of the stick yet again.

I don't see it that way. If anyone were to hypothetically have his screentime shortened by the roster size, I figure Two-Face would be the most likely. He doesn't need as much explanation or introduction, his game would be pretty straight forward.

 

[Avengers-Report]

Very true. It doesn't hurt the chances.

This made me smile

 

[TigerBlood]

The biggest factors against Two-Face at this point are the other villains. I don't think you can include Two-Face, Catwoman, and Bane without one of those characters suffering in terms of screen time and development. I mean, yes, everyone holds up TDK as a good example of how to juggle multiple characters, and Nolan did do that well. But he's never had three major villains in one film before.

I just don't think it would be wise to include Two-Face while still needing to expand upon Bane's and Catwoman's characters. One of them are going to suffer, and odds are, it would be Bane, since he's the easiest to turn into the "brute/muscle" character. And I really don't want to see the character get the short end of the stick yet again.

I think we're in the dark on villains still. Nolan put the Bane and Catwoman thing out there to quench the thirst of the fans. I think we are going to see the most villains out of any Batman film in TDKR. I don't think there is a great possibility Two Face is included but I do think the main villain hasn't been cast yet. I think we'll see Bane, Catwoman, Hugo Strange, Black Mask, Scarecrow, maybe Two Face and a few others here and there. I don't think Bane will be the Joker of this film, I think we'll see him in a Scarecrowesk roll from Batman Begins. Nolan has handled multiple villains perfectly so the more the merrier IMO.

The thing is NO character's arc suffers in a Nolan film. People say Harvey Two Face's arc suffered in TDK. Thats dead wrong. It had all the elements of Two Face from the comics arranged in a way that made it original and fit for Nolan's world. We still got the court room scene, the half/half suit, the scarring, the coin, the insanity, the revenge ect ect. but in Nolan's own way. Yeah he wasn't running around the whole film with his face burned off yeah but how much further could you of brought that arc? If they really were planning on Two Face returning for TDKR, why would you tell everyone in the last scene? You wouldn't. You wouldn't tell anyone until the trailer or the film came out. He left that scene ambiguous on purpose, he's methodical, he wouldn't intentionally make that death scene vague if he didn't want it to look that way and if he goes around to all the interviews and says, "..yes, it was meant to be vague" that opens the Nolan curtain up a little wider than he wants and he would never tip his hand like that. While it's been debated to death (no pun) and multiple people confirming a fake character is dead in a fictional film there is always a chance it's all a swerve. So lets not put a definite on that character being dead yet. Until the series is finished we won't know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08jw37WwBlA

 

[Jokers_Wild]

I think it would be awesome if Two-Face clandestinely used the mob's money to hire and organize a new gang, the primary person hired would be Bane to take down Bats and Gordon, since they've never paid for Rachel's death. In the finale, Two-Face appears as the force behind it all, only to have Catwoman save Batman from him.

 

[Two-Face]

Man You guys putting my hopes up. It would be great to see Two-Face back he's one of the best Batman villains. I'm 50/50 "it can't hurt your chances"

 

[MiniBond]

the more I think about it the more I imagine (not saying it's the truth though) a secret involving two face related to TDK, thus allowing him to return in a flash back!

 

[Infinity9999x]

I think we're in the dark on villains still. Nolan put the Bane and Catwoman thing out there to quench the thirst of the fans. I think we are going to see the most villains out of any Batman film in TDKR. I don't think there is a great possibility Two Face is included but I do think the main villain hasn't been cast yet. I think we'll see Bane, Catwoman, Hugo Strange, Black Mask, Scarecrow, maybe Two Face and a few others here and there. I don't think Bane will be the Joker of this film, I think we'll see him in a Scarecrowesk roll from Batman Begins. Nolan has handled multiple villains perfectly so the more the merrier IMO.

The thing is NO character's arc suffers in a Nolan film. People say Harvey Two Face's arc suffered in TDK. Thats dead wrong. It had all the elements of Two Face from the comics arranged in a way that made it original and fit for Nolan's world. We still got the court room scene, the half/half suit, the scarring, the coin, the insanity, the revenge ect ect. but in Nolan's own way. Yeah he wasn't running around the whole film with his face burned off yeah but how much further could you of brought that arc? If they really were planning on Two Face returning for TDKR, why would you tell everyone in the last scene? You wouldn't. You wouldn't tell anyone until the trailer or the film came out. He left that scene ambiguous on purpose, he's methodical, he wouldn't intentionally make that death scene vague if he didn't want it to look that way and if he goes around to all the interviews and says, "..yes, it was meant to be vague" that opens the Nolan curtain up a little wider than he wants and he would never tip his hand like that. While it's been debated to death (no pun) and multiple people confirming a fake character is dead in a fictional film there is always a chance it's all a swerve. So lets not put a definite on that character being dead yet. Until the series is finished we won't know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08jw37WwBlA

I personally disagree that Two-Face didn't suffer in TDK. Harvey Dent was done beautifully, Two-Face was good, but he had much more potential.

However, I certainly hope we don't have the number of villains in the film that you've mentioned. I'm sorry, but that's just too many villains to do in one film if you expect them to get good character development and a good arc. You've said that no character's arc suffers in a Nolan film? Well, I'd agree that he usually treats his characters well, but sometimes his characters don't really have arcs, because they're side characters. Maroni, The Chechen, Scarecrow, Zsaz, etc. Small characters that don't really evolve much as characters, because they're not the main focus, and because there isn't TIME.

You're talking about having multiple MAIN villains in one film. Two is doable, but three is pushing it, and any more then that I'd say is getting foolish, because just out of necessity of time, someone is going to get the short end of the stick.

 

[El Payaso]

It's true. If Nolan wanted to convince us he was dead, there are much better ways to do it. The fact that Dent's death is not 100% addressed in the movie breathes a little life into these rumors.

It was 120% addressed in the movie. So much that it was his death what made Batman think up all the plan of self-blaming for Dent's murders. And then - again - we saw his funeral. What else could have been done exactly, Dent's corpse with maggots coming out of his skull? Nah.

Plus you don't need anything to breathe life into these rumours. I still remember this exact same debate with Ra's being alive after Batman Begins. Could it have been any more obvious that he died?

 

[Gianakin_]

Besides, it negates the "You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain". Dent/2Face died a hero and Batman is alive to become the villain.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'd love for him to return. I just don't see it.

 

[liov]

I'm in the camp that Eckhart is just messing with the interviewer, and therefore us. He was being coy because he's a charming ****er.

Dent returning would entirely ruin the ending of TDK, and while I'm not saying it's out of the question, I find it highly, highly unlikely we'll be seeing Big Bad Harv in another Nolan film.
There are more factors against him returning than for him returning. Bane, Catwoman, the theoretical possibility of JGL maybe being kind of involved and the added fact that Nolan told Eckhart that he would not be involved in the next film and that his character is dead.

Getting a little more into the character of Two-Face, if Dent is dead, then Two-Face couldn't really exist. Yes, there have been instances where the dark side of Dent has taken over the entire personality, but I don't see Nolan using that.

I suppose in the end, no one knows anything for absolute sure. The debate and discussion are indeed fun though.

 

[El Payaso]

Getting a little more into the character of Two-Face, if Dent is dead, then Two-Face couldn't really exist.

Dent dead makes Two-Face = One-Face.

 

[RustyCage]

"Yes, there have been instances where the dark side of Dent has taken over the entire personality, but I don't see Nolan using that. "

He already did.

Dent died when Rachel died. This isn't the Two-Face from the comics, he doesn't have a split personality gimmick. (Although he could certainly develop one.)

"Dent dead makes Two-Face = One-Face. "

If you're gonna put it that way, he's always been 'One-Face' in TDK. But of course, you'd be ignoring the reasoning they provided for him being called Two-Face in this interpretation.

"Dent returning would entirely ruin the ending of TDK."

Not in my eyes.