The Dark Knight Establish the Coin in TDK?

[Rezzo]

Don´t think it needs explaining on where it came from, it seems pretty obvious why he would use it to decide whether to do good actions or bad actions

 

[AndrewGilkison]

It wouldn't take Harvey long to explain that it came from his drunken insane father and how it contributed to his abuse.

 

[TheBatman072]

In "Arkham Asylum", it is how is makes all of his decisions, (including whether to go to the bathroom, which is a little extreme for me).

No, no, no. I think you misread it.


Before Harvey was "weened" off the coin, he was perfectly fine making those SIMPLE decisions, like going to the bathroom, eating something. Whatever. It's only after he started using the cards that he became too dependent on them. And therefore couldn't make the small decisions for himself.


His coin has always been his BIG decision maker. Whether or not to kill somebody, how to go about a crime(if there were two choices).

 

[hatesworking]

the 2 ferries might be 2 faces game - who knows for sure? I know everyone is saying its Mister J.

I dont know how 2 faces coin gets scarred but maybe a batarang could do it - but im guessing thats already happening for Mr J cut smile.

 

[Two-Face]

Seeing as how Two-Face is almost certain to make an appearance, (although perhaps a short one), I was interested as to how his coin should be "treated" in TDK. In many of the comics his coin is his moral gauge, his deciding factor in whether to perform "good" or "bad" actions. In The Long Halloween, Harvey says that a mobster was released as if it were decided by the flip of a coin. In "Arkham Asylum", it is how is makes all of his decisions, (including whether to go to the bathroom, which is a little extreme for me). How much of this should be developed in TDK?

Will they explain where it came from?, Will it be mentioned early on in the story?, If so, will it be used throughout or just make a brief "cameo"?, Will it be scratched from the start or will he scratch it on one side only after he is scarred?

What do you think?

I agree, If you need to go to the bathroom, you go no question I always find bit stupid in AA.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

I agree, If you need to go to the bathroom, you go no question I always find bit stupid in AA.

I think that was a device by the writer to make us question whether or not being inside of Arkham was actually helping Harvey get better. It was clearly making him worse.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

I dont know how 2 faces coin gets scarred but maybe a batarang could do it - but im guessing thats already happening for Mr J cut smile.

I imagine Harvey cuts one side of it himself, to reflect his new persona.

 

[General Vulcun]

Maybe they can introduce the coin by way of the ferries. 2 ferries. One with innocents, the other with criminals. In order for the people on one ferrie to survive, they have to blow up the other ferrie. If no one makes the decision in time, everyone on both ferries dies. The criminals have already made their choice in life, but the innocents have a harder one: save their own lives, but loose their innocents by murdering everyone on the other ferrie. If you ask me, it goes well with the "justice decided by the flip of a coin" statement.

Actually, here's a better scenario. What if Joker, who's behind the ferrie attack, forces Harvey to make the decision. He'll have to decide between saving the good and saving the evil, but if he hesitates, then everyone dies. Either way, Harvey is in some way responsible for deaths.

What do you think?

 

[wikum]

Actually, here's a better scenario. What if Joker, who's behind the ferrie attack, forces Harvey to make the decision. He'll have to decide between saving the good and saving the evil, but if he hesitates, then everyone dies. Either way, Harvey is in some way responsible for deaths.

What do you think?

Me likey. One way or another I'm sure Harvey has something to do with the ferry part.

 

[C. Zejr]

Maybe they can introduce the coin by way of the ferries. 2 ferries. One with innocents, the other with criminals. In order for the people on one ferrie to survive, they have to blow up the other ferrie. If no one makes the decision in time, everyone on both ferries dies. The criminals have already made their choice in life, but the innocents have a harder one: save their own lives, but loose their innocents by murdering everyone on the other ferrie. If you ask me, it goes well with the "justice decided by the flip of a coin" statement.

Actually, here's a better scenario. What if Joker, who's behind the ferrie attack, forces Harvey to make the decision. He'll have to decide between saving the good and saving the evil, but if he hesitates, then everyone dies. Either way, Harvey is in some way responsible for deaths.

What do you think?

Nice.

 

[Orko Is King]

Seeing as how Two-Face is almost certain to make an appearance, (although perhaps a short one), I was interested as to how his coin should be "treated" in TDK. In many of the comics his coin is his moral gauge, his deciding factor in whether to perform "good" or "bad" actions. In The Long Halloween, Harvey says that a mobster was released as if it were decided by the flip of a coin. In "Arkham Asylum", it is how is makes all of his decisions, (including whether to go to the bathroom, which is a little extreme for me). How much of this should be developed in TDK?

Will they explain where it came from?, Will it be mentioned early on in the story?, If so, will it be used throughout or just make a brief "cameo"?, Will it be scratched from the start or will he scratch it on one side only after he is scarred?

What do you think?

I think the coin should only be used in situations involved in morality in any way. Going to the bathroom should just be something you do.

 

[smatt584]

No, no, no. I think you misread it.


Before Harvey was "weened" off the coin, he was perfectly fine making those SIMPLE decisions, like going to the bathroom, eating something. Whatever. It's only after he started using the cards that he became too dependent on them. And therefore couldn't make the small decisions for himself.


His coin has always been his BIG decision maker. Whether or not to kill somebody, how to go about a crime(if there were two choices).

I think there is more than one way to interpret it, but he was already dependant on his coin for everything, which only gave him two choices for everything. The doctors gave him the cards to give him more choices for everything, but having to read the cards for every decision, with their larger number of possibilities, took so long that by the time he was able to make a choice as to whether he went to the bathroom or not, he couldn't hold it any longer and simply wet himself. This shouldn't have been a problem if he weren't already using the coin to make this decision. If, in the context of this story, he was making the decision to go to the restroom independantly of his dependancy on his "medium" for his choice, (i.e coin, cards, etc), then he simply would have gone to the restroom. Instead, the doctors gave him so many choices, that the simple decision to use the restroom was so complex with the cards that it simply took too long to decide anything and they effectively crippled him. Batman even says this in so many words. At least that's how i saw the writer's interpretation. For Harvey, a simpler choice was better.

 

[Batman FREAK]

Yeah wasn't there something about him using a die as well instead of the cards? Can't remember exactly...

 

[CinematicESP]

I believe in the comics the coin first belongs to Sal Maroni, his "lucky two-headed coin" or something. Then in the courtroom, Harvey uses the coin as evidence from the scene of the crime, proving Maroni was there, which is when Maroni throws the acid. Seeing as how Maroni is in the film, I have a feeling they might do that exactly. Then Dent keeps the coin, scratches one side, etc.

I'm betting the coin will be used in moral situations, as mentioned before.

 

[Abaddon]

I think the coin belonged to Harvey's dad.

 

[smatt584]

Actually, here's a better scenario. What if Joker, who's behind the ferrie attack, forces Harvey to make the decision. He'll have to decide between saving the good and saving the evil, but if he hesitates, then everyone dies. Either way, Harvey is in some way responsible for deaths.

What do you think?

I think the writers could do something very cool for the movie with this scenario, very cool indeed.

 

[NoName86]

^Hmm, could it be that indeed Harvey has some buried psychological issues, and that perhaps in some way Joker finds out about them, and uses it to his advantage, thus leading us to this scenario of him having to choose?

Food for though I guess.

 

[BubbaGump]

I think the coin belonged to Harvey's dad.

Took the words right out of my...keyboard. It would be interesting to see a flashback of Harvey's Dad explaining the coin to him and telling him all about duality. Everyone's missing the big picture here. It's a two-HEADED coin. It's not like a regular quarter. It should be passed down like an heirloom.

 

[boywonder13]

hmm, i dont know american money very well

but it could be one of the coins that has a symbol of justice on it, and he keeps it with him in his trials, and when he gets the acid on his face some of it gets on the coin.

scarring his sense of justice.

 

[wikum]

^Hmm, could it be that indeed Harvey has some buried psychological issues, and that perhaps in some way Joker finds out about them, and uses it to his advantage, thus leading us to this scenario of him having to choose?

Food for though I guess.

I don't think this is such a good idea. The way I see it is that Harvey goes mad because of Gotham. Not because of a mental problem.

 

[NoName86]

I'm not really saying I adore the idea, as I'd rather have it the same way you said wikum, but it just sounds to me that it could be a route they may very well take. Think Rupert Thorne in the origin of two face episodes on BTAS.

 

[Cristo]

In before the Long Halloween, what was Two-Face's motive with his coin?

 

[Brian Braddock]

I agree, If you need to go to the bathroom, you go no question I always find bit stupid in AA.

Maybe it's not to decide wether to go the bathroom or not but rather:-

"Should I wipe my a$$?"

>flips coin<

"Hmm,That'd be a 'no' then"

>pulls up pants<

t:


Seriously though - I gotta admit - I always preferred the Maroni coin origin as opposed to the abusive father one.

That's personally the way I hope they go.

 

[The Mighty Wind]

I think that was a device by the writer to make us question whether or not being inside of Arkham was actually helping Harvey get better. It was clearly making him worse.

Entirely disagree. In his current situation he was doing worse for purely personal means, but he was no longer a threat and by the end of the story, you could see that he had gained power over the coin and thereby his two-face persona.

I don't think this is such a good idea. The way I see it is that Harvey goes mad because of Gotham. Not because of a mental problem.

I think that there at least needs to be some level of "problem" within Harvey before he finally snapped. I know some, like Stormin' Norman think Harvey should be entirely free of all mental problems prior to the accident but there are a few angles which I think work in context of the Harvey Dent story.

1) Deep seeded schizophrenia: As long as Harvey had complete control over it prior to the accident, he's still just as heroic a character. Much like with Batman, its not who you are underneath, but your actions that define you, especially to the audience.

2) A slowly developing problem: If Harvey starts to unravel in the second act, after having been firmly established as a good guy to begin with, it makes him much more compelling because he begins as someone who is heroic, but through circumstances where he can't make a "right" decision (such as being forced to choose between the two ferries) he slowly begins to get to that point. The acid then changes him from someone who is slowly unravelling into a less decent, but still capable human being into someone whose original persona has completely collapsed.

In my mind, simply taking someone who is the perfect person, able to handle whatever is thrown at him, and have him turn to a life of crime simply because of a horrible accident (which plenty of others remain reasonable human beings after) just does not work in my mind. Instead the story is much more compelling, as with any tragedy, when you can see the gradual decline of the character and the final act which brings about their downfall.

 

[hatesworking]

good ideas all round to everyone

hmmm i must say Tommy Lee Jones sucked as 2 face

TLJ is a a**hole