Fant4stic: Reborn! - - - - Part 23

[Spiderine]

Cyclops is under the impression that the vitriol aimed towards this film is due to it being a 20th century fox production, and not because the movie looks nothing like a FF movie. You think it'd be obvious since DOFP was widely acclaimed, most people don't hate Fox on principle, but alas.

Its funny how most of the supporters want to acknowledge that as fact. Nobody gives a damn about the studio, its the weak looking film the studio trying to pass off.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Josh and his team were doing it. But they had to enlist more people. I can't believe at fox's miserly attitude and Josh trying to to do too much. For god sakes, you ain't a brilliant genius filmmaker. At best a talented person...some people bite off more then they can chew

... i don't buy that one bit. sorry. I hate this film, and want to see it burn.. and don't care for Trank either... but went to school for animation. that's not how it works.

it takes a pretty large crew to do a whole film.. hell it took about 3-5 people to do mystique's morphing scenes alone (one of my teachers worked on that animation) for a whole film you need over 20 employees working day and night.. and Trank does not own a special FX house.. it takes time, money, and no one does that in there basement unless they're a student.

have you not seen the giant list of special fx artist in a films credits?

 

[Flint Marko]

... i don't buy that one bit. sorry. I hate this film, and want to see it burn.. and don't care for Trank either... but went to school for animation. that's not how it works.

it takes a pretty large crew to do a whole film.. hell it took about 3-5 people to do mystique's morphing scenes alone (one of my teachers worked on that animation) for a whole film you need over 20 employees working day and night.. and Trank does not own a special FX house.. it takes time, money, and no one does that in there basement unless they're a student.

have you not seen the giant list of special fx artist in a films credits?

I'm not saying I necessarily believe what he's saying, but in his defense, it sort of sounds like what could have happened was Trank went into everything not knowing all that and then found out afterwards that the work was overwhelming. So maybe he thought his team, which could have consisted of 20 employees for all we know, would be capable of getting it done but then found out the workload was too immense.
I'm not saying I buy it, but I ain't overruling it either.

 

[Theweepeople]

Haven't had a rotten rating or a flop for a CBM since 2009. You'd think that'd earn them some goodwill, but alas.

Actually, X-Men origins: Wolverine came out in 2009 so that year is tainted due to that film getting horrible reviews. 2010 was irrelevant since Fox didn't release any CBM that year.

I will give you this much Cyclops. I like most of the films on your list of best Marvel films. The only film that sucked for me was Blade 2. It's obvious that you're not a close minded X-men series fan who hates on other marvel films.

 

[Saitou Hajime]

Haven't had a rotten rating or a flop for a CBM since 2009. You'd think that'd earn them some goodwill, but alas.

Boo-hoo. Marvel hasn't had a rotten rating or flop EVER and people still hate on them.

 

[Flint Marko]

Actually, X-Men origins: Wolverine came out in 2009 so that year is tainted due to that film getting horrible reviews. 2010 was irrelevant since Fox didn't release any CBM that year.

I will give you this much Cyclops. I like most of the films on your list of best Marvel films. The only film that sucked for me was Blade 2. It's obvious that you're not a close minded X-men series fan who hates on other marvel films.

He dislikes almost anything in the MCU by default.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I'm not saying I necessarily believe what he's saying, but in his defense, it sort of sounds like what could have happened was Trank went into everything not knowing all that and then found out afterwards that the work was overwhelming. So maybe he thought his team, which could have consisted of 20 employees for all we know, would be capable of getting it done but then found out the workload was too immense.
I'm not saying I buy it, but I ain't overruling it either.

20s pushing it.. and then you also have to think about where the money is coming from.. doesn't sound like FOX hired the FX team... and Trank doesn't have the money for that. Either this guy isn't getting the facts straight, or he's flat out wrong

 

[Flint Marko]

20s pushing it.. and then you also have to think about where the money is coming from.. doesn't sound like FOX hired the FX team... and Trank doesn't have the money for that. Either this guy isn't getting the facts straight, or he's flat out wrong

Hmmm, true.

 

[Paradox1]

The producers hire everybody on set including the FX team.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

The producers hire everybody on set including the FX team.

exactly. not the director

 

[Tony Stark]

... i don't buy that one bit. sorry. I hate this film, and want to see it burn.. and don't care for Trank either... but went to school for animation. that's not how it works.

it takes a pretty large crew to do a whole film.. hell it took about 3-5 people to do mystique's morphing scenes alone (one of my teachers worked on that animation) for a whole film you need over 20 employees working day and night.. and Trank does not own a special FX house.. it takes time, money, and no one does that in there basement unless they're a student.

have you not seen the giant list of special fx artist in a films credits?

Agreed. Trank was never going to do his on FX. He didn't do it for Chronicle, so why in the heck would anyone think he would try to do it for this.

Look at the effects team for Chronicle. It was a ton of people, and the FX on Chronicle were pretty rudimentary compared to other films.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1706593/fullcredits?ref_=tt_ov_st_sm

Sorry folks this story is BS.

 

[Flint Marko]

Well that's good to know. Truth be told it painted a prettier picture than I was inclined to originally believe, so it isn't all that shocking.

 

[Orba]

... i don't buy that one bit. sorry. I hate this film, and want to see it burn.. and don't care for Trank either... but went to school for animation. that's not how it works.

it takes a pretty large crew to do a whole film.. hell it took about 3-5 people to do mystique's morphing scenes alone (one of my teachers worked on that animation) for a whole film you need over 20 employees working day and night.. and Trank does not own a special FX house.. it takes time, money, and no one does that in there basement unless they're a student.

have you not seen the giant list of special fx artist in a films credits?

I don't believe that it was being suggested that Trank intended to do the fx for the entire film by himself. The way I am reading it is that Trank thought that they could be clever with the fx budget and hire a big good FX studio to do the the very FX heavy shots (probably the Thing, big fights etc) but then save money by doing all of the rest of the fx work without the help of a professional team. All of the little stuff that films are full of but most of the audience never really pay attention to. I'm guessing the idea was that by doing it themselves they could maximize the money they had available for spending on the professional FX work.

The problem is that the work was a lot harder and took far longer that Trank etc thought, resulting in them wasting months. This resulted in Fox being pissed when they found out as they have had to bring in an extra FX team as well as getting the first team to do more work than they were originally contracted for, in order to get the film ready in time. And I wouldn't be surprised if the FX teams aren't charging extra for a last minute rush job.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I think the details of any report or rumor are always going to be a little off. We're getting whisper down the lane, so even something that was exactly right to start will get distorted some by the time it shows up here or on another site.

But if we step back and take a look at the 30,000 foot view, I think we can examine the totality of everything we've seen from all sources and get a general picture of how things may have played out:

1. Leading up to the production of this film, Fox was still trying to get something from Marvel in return for the rights. That was their Plan A and actually making a film was their Plan B.

2. Because they weren't completely committed to actually making the film, they took half-measures. They hired a young director who had made a good film on a shoestring already for them and likely had contractual obligations to make another film if Fox wanted. Because he was young, Fox figured they could string him along as they got their s*** together. They also figured they could keep him in-line and doing their bidding if/when the project really started moving. They chose a 'grounded' script that would allow them to make the film relatively inexpensively if they had to go to Plan B.

3. When Marvel offered nothing and Fox had no choice but to go with Plan B, they realized they weren't really in love with their script or their director. He was more stubborn and difficult to control than they anticipated, and he had more ambition for a film for which low-cost was key than sat well with management.

4. They looked for replacements, but couldn't find anybody willing to wade into that swamp at such a late date. They needed to get started to meet contractual deadlines, so they charged ahead.

5. They sent Simon Kinberg to babysit Trank and keep him in line and on budget, but Trank rebelled against such an insulting move and soon he and management were at odds.

6. Again, because of contractual deadlines and investments that had already been made and because sets were already under construction and participants had dates locked into their schedules, they charged through with filming even though things weren't going smoothly.

7. With a combination of Trank, Kinbeg, second unit directors etc., they managed to get enough on film to move to post-production.

8. As they identified some of the most glaring short-comings in the film, they worked to fix those in post production and did some re-shoots to fill the biggest holes.

9. Trank and Fox also realized that their original plans for people and software for CGI weren't sufficient to get the job done and they looked for alternatives who could jump in quickly and fix things.

10. At this point, Fox and Trank probably don't think much of each other and will probably never work together again. But they have a film to release in 5 months and it's in their mutual benefit to hold their noses and get it done and pretend they're one big happy family as they do that.

I think the interviews over the next few months leading up to release will be interesting, and we'll see Trank and Kinberg squirming and being uncomfortable when they're not outright avoiding the press, but they'll present a general air of cooperation and happiness with how the film came out.

We probably won't get the real story for another 5 years or more, but that will be interesting when it does comes out.

 

[moviedoors]

I must not be reading the same sources, but there seems like a whole lot of assumptions regarding what's going on behind the scenes.

 

[Mr.M]

I must not be reading the same sources, but there seems like a whole lot of assumptions regarding what's going on behind the scenes.

Willie has been following this more closely than anybody based on the public info available. Sounds to me like he's bang on. We have to speculate given the available information, but it is consistent based on everything leading up to then and now post production.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I think the details of any report or rumor are always going to be a little off. We're getting whisper down the lane, so even something that was exactly right to start will get distorted some by the time it shows up here or on another site.

But if we step back and take a look at the 30,000 foot view, I think we can examine the totality of everything we've seen from all sources and get a general picture of how things may have played out:

1. Leading up to the production of this film, Fox was still trying to get something from Marvel in return for the rights. That was their Plan A and actually making a film was their Plan B.

2. Because they weren't completely committed to actually making the film, they took half-measures. They hired a young director who had made a good film on a shoestring already for them and likely had contractual obligations to make another film if Fox wanted. Because he was young, Fox figured they could string him along as they got their s*** together. They also figured they could keep him in-line and doing their bidding if/when the project really started moving. They chose a 'grounded' script that would allow them to make the film relatively inexpensively if they had to go to Plan B.

3. When Marvel offered nothing and Fox had no choice but to go with Plan B, they realized they weren't really in love with their script or their director. He was more stubborn and difficult to control than they anticipated, and he had more ambition for a film for which low-cost was key than sat well with management.

4. They looked for replacements, but couldn't find anybody willing to wade into that swamp at such a late date. They needed to get started to meet contractual deadlines, so they charged ahead.

5. They sent Simon Kinberg to babysit Trank and keep him in line and on budget, but Trank rebelled against such an insulting move and soon he and management were at odds.

6. Again, because of contractual deadlines and investments that had already been made and because sets were already under construction and participants had dates locked into their schedules, they charged through with filming even though things weren't going smoothly.

7. With a combination of Trank, Kinbeg, second unit directors etc., they managed to get enough on film to move to post-production.

8. As they identified some of the most glaring short-comings in the film, they worked to fix those in post production and did some re-shoots to fill the biggest holes.

9. Trank and Fox also realized that their original plans for people and software for CGI weren't sufficient to get the job done and they looked for alternatives who could jump in quickly and fix things.

10. At this point, Fox and Trank probably don't think much of each other and will probably never work together again. But they have a film to release in 5 months and it's in their mutual benefit to hold their noses and get it done and pretend they're one big happy family as they do that.

I think the interviews over the next few months leading up to release will be interesting, and we'll see Trank and Kinberg squirming and being uncomfortable when they're not outright avoiding the press, but they'll present a general air of cooperation and happiness with how the film came out.

We probably won't get the real story for another 5 years or more, but that will be interesting when it does comes out.

i agree with all but the special FX cgi.. there's no way in hell he hired his own team

 

[Tony Stark]

I'm not sure who the original FX shop was. It's possible the production team originally went with Shade VFX who did Chronicle, and Trank was already familiar with. Judging from the FX shots in the trailer, you can see why management wasn't happy. I mentioned the shot of Johnny walking down the hall on fire. The effect is extremely cheap, and a freelancer could probably do a halfway job of replicating the effect. It's just a composite shot of flames ontop of the actor.

They probably went to Weta digital at that point, knowing they could fix what they already had.

Alot of people can come in here and claim that they are close to the production and come up with a half way feasible story, but as Spideyboy mentioned, there's just too many holes in his story, and things that don't jive with how production is done.

 

[Orba]

I don't think it was that they went with a cheap FX team, I think the problem is that Trank etc thought that they could spend most of their FX budget on a good team doing just the big effects shots and that Trank etc could get all of the more minor FX shots done by themselves in order to get the most bang for their buck. The problem is that the plan was stupid.

 

[Tony Stark]

I don't think it was that they went with a cheap FX team, I think the problem is that Trank etc thought that they could spend most of their FX budget on a good team doing just the big effects shots and that Trank etc could get all of the more minor FX shots done by themselves in order to get the most bang for their buck. The problem is that the plan was stupid.

This is why I think the rumor of Ben being able to turn his abilities on and off is probably true. I'm sure he would have wanted to do this to save on effects budget.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Hey, George Lucas and Peter Jackson basically created ILM and WETA respectively to get the kind of effects they wanted at the price they wanted.

It wouldn't surprise me if Trank thinks he's the next George Lucas or Peter Jackson.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I don't think it was that they went with a cheap FX team, I think the problem is that Trank etc thought that they could spend most of their FX budget on a good team doing just the big effects shots and that Trank etc could get all of the more minor FX shots done by themselves in order to get the most bang for their buck. The problem is that the plan was stupid.

again, Directors do not hire post production people or special FX... Producers do that kind of hiring... they are the boss. Not the Director.

people really get this confused... due to high profile directors like Spielberg and Cameron. who basically just go to the studio for money, while they do whatever they please... and then the indie film makers who have free reign on everything.. because the studios have no big stake in it.

Most Directors who are of a lower profile for your average hollywood flick, do not run the show.. it's the producers that do. They do the hiring, the firing, they shell out the money.. and it's not so much one directors film or vision, but a group of people... producers, cinematographers, the director, the writers, etc.. they all come together to get a film made.. it's not one person making all the shots and calls. And they all answer to the Producers who fund the projects... and sometimes the producers have major say.

 

[moviedoors]

I'm just not buying that Trank pulled a fast on the studio. Studios deserve to take a lot of **** for a lot of what they do, but they aren't stupid.

 

[Mr.M]

Even DoFP had Beast in human form for most of the film. At some point, it isn't practical capturing the performance when the actor is carrying all that stuff on him. Then you look at a film like Planet of the Apes and you wonder. But if Ben isn't Thing throughout, it's clearly a plot to save costs, and not the first time Fox tried to pull a fast one on the fans. I don't think that's going to be the case though, especially if they only get their powers an hour into the movie.

 

[cronosred]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRdSxZtUpFk