"Feel the Bern": The BERNIE SANDERS Thread - Part 2

[DarthSkywalker]

I don't see why Bernie would let himself get riled. I remember one of the tweets where Trump was ripping the DNC; he ended it with "Run, Bernie, Run!" Seems like you or me could read that, get the sarcasm, and not give it the time of the day.

Because Bernie is a vain, stubborn, fool.

 

[Bruce Banner]

Because Bernie is a vain, stubborn, fool.

You may be right.
However, in comparison to the other two running, that's not saying much.

EDIT: Not trying to be argumentative with that comment. It is pretty depressing to look at the other two. It's not hard to look through them and see what they are and what they are in it for.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

If anything though Bernie staying in this long clearly shows he is not the man of moral fiber many on the internet like to make him out to be. He's being a petulant child right now when he has clearly lost fair and square yet he refuses to accept reality. He's pulling every dirty trick he claimed Clinton was doing and even went so far as to try and debate Trump when he hasn't even won the nomination. I voted for Bernie and I like a lot of his ideas but his refusal to stand down when the game has been lost clearly shows not all his motives for running are pure.

 

[Victarion]

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/sanders-lawyers-threaten-to-disrupt-dnc-694626371717

I didn't think this would surprise anyone, but news is news.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Sanders fails to oust Clinton backers from convention roles

WASHINGTON (AP) — Democratic officials have rejected Bernie Sanders' request to remove two high-profile Hillary Clinton supporters from leadership positions at the party's summer convention.

Sanders' presidential campaign said in a letter Friday to the Democratic National Committee that Dannel Malloy, Connecticut's governor, and Barney Frank, a former Massachusetts congressman, couldn't be relied upon to perform their roles "fairly and capably while laboring under such deeply held bias."

Malloy is Platform Committee co-chairman. Frank is co-chairman of the Rules Committee.

Democratic officials responded to Sanders' request on Saturday, saying in a letter that Malloy and Frank were elected under party rules and that Sanders wasn't alleging any violations of that process.

The DNC says it reviewed the challenge, found it failed to meet the criteria and "we are compelled to dismiss it."

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a9a3...s-fails-oust-clinton-backers-convention-roles

 

[Kelly]

Well, I agree with ousting Barney Frank......

 

[TheBat812]

If anything though Bernie staying in this long clearly shows he is not the man of moral fiber many on the internet like to make him out to be. He's being a petulant child right now when he has clearly lost fair and square yet he refuses to accept reality. He's pulling every dirty trick he claimed Clinton was doing and even went so far as to try and debate Trump when he hasn't even won the nomination. I voted for Bernie and I like a lot of his ideas but his refusal to stand down when the game has been lost clearly shows not all his motives for running are pure.

I dunno, it seems to me that a man of 'moral fiber' would continue to fight for his beliefs. I understand he'll almost certainly lose in the contested convention, but it would seem that he'd be doing his constituents and the ideals he's pushing for a disservice by pulling out when there's still a technical shot at winning. Remember, he's fighting for a movement, not just a nomination. This takes continued resolve, and not just pulling out of the race because it's politically expedient and expected. Of course, the big problem would be if the Bernie or Busters decide not to vote for Hillary in the general, which is a stupid as hell position to take.

 

[Kelly]

I dunno, it seems to me that a man of 'moral fiber' would continue to fight for his beliefs. I understand he'll almost certainly lose in the contested convention, but it would seem that he'd be doing his constituents and the ideals he's pushing for a disservice by pulling out when there's still a technical shot at winning. Remember, he's fighting for a movement, not just a nomination. This takes continued resolve, and not just pulling out of the race because it's politically expedient and expected. Of course, the big problem would be if the Bernie or Busters decide not to vote for Hillary in the general, which is a stupid as hell position to take.

However, if there is a candidate that shares those beliefs, or at the least, gets us closer to those beliefs....knowing you don't have a chance in hell of winning? Would you try your best to undermine that candidate, when you know that the opposing candidate is fighting for everything that you hate?

When you fight tooth and nail against someone that, at the least, can further your ideals, and do things that counter the integrity you should be showing in order to strengthen your ideals, you come of as a spoiled, rotten, little brat that is in it for themselves. which IMO is exactly how Sanders looks at the moment.

As I said before, I'm not surprised in the least. He isn't a Democrat, therefore he holds no allegiance to that party, even if they share enough of his ideology that he chooses to caucus with them. It's plain and simple, he is willing to throw that party under the bus, allow a candidate that opposes all he supposedly stands for, in order to WIN, at any cost. That is kinda sad.

 

[TheBat812]

However, if there is a candidate that shares those beliefs, or at the least, gets us closer to those beliefs....knowing you don't have a chance in hell of winning? Would you try your best to undermine that candidate, when you know that the opposing candidate is fighting for everything that you hate?

When you fight tooth and nail against someone that, at the least, can further your ideals, and do things that counter the integrity you should be showing in order to strengthen your ideals, you come of as a spoiled, rotten, little brat that is in it for themselves. which IMO is exactly how Sanders looks at the moment.

As I said before, I'm not surprised in the least. He isn't a Democrat, therefore he holds no allegiance to that party, even if they share enough of his ideology that he chooses to caucus with them. It's plain and simple, he is willing to throw that party under the bus, allow a candidate that opposes all he supposedly stands for, in order to WIN, at any cost. That is kinda sad.

Well, I just think the way he views it is a bit different. I've been a Democrat my whole life, but Bernie is the only candidate who actually matches my views in a way that Clinton simply does not. Sure, I will vote for her in the general, but Bernie is talking about bringing us back to being progressives and move more towards a European type principled system - social democracy. This is NOT what she is offering, and Bernie does not see her as being as close to his beliefs as you do. In fact, she has actively been in conflict with his most important talking points, only now she likes to say she's always been in favor of them - despite all her actions going against that claim.

Anyways, if/when he loses, I would be surprised if he didn't try to unite Democrats with Clinton to beat Trump. If he actually does run as an independent, THEN I think it will be a much more mixed bag - it actually would create a divide among the left creating an opening for Trump. THEN I would have an issue with Bernie's tactics.

But I'm half French, and I spent the last two weeks in Cannes talking politics with all kinds of people from around the world, and it's important to remember that to the rest of the world, Bernie is a center-left liberal, Clinton is actually considered center-right, and Trump is far (crazy) right. This is why so many have trouble imagining voting for Clinton after supporting Bernie - her policies and history, just aren't very liberal. Still, incomparably better than Trump.

 

[Kelly]

Well, I just think the way he views it is a bit different. I've been a Democrat my whole life, but Bernie is the only candidate who actually matches my views in a way that Clinton simply does not. Sure, I will vote for her in the general, but Bernie is talking about bringing us back to being progressives and move more towards a European type principled system - social democracy. This is NOT what she is offering, and Bernie does not see her as being as close to his beliefs as you do. In fact, she has actively been in conflict with his most important talking points, only now she likes to say she's always been in favor of them - despite all her actions going against that claim.

Anyways, if/when he loses, I would be surprised if he didn't try to unite Democrats with Clinton to beat Trump. If he actually does run as an independent, THEN I think it will be a much more mixed bag - it actually would create a divide among the left creating an opening for Trump. THEN I would have an issue with Bernie's tactics.

But I'm half French, and I spent the last two weeks in Cannes talking politics with all kinds of people from around the world, and it's important to remember that to the rest of the world, Bernie is a center-left liberal, Clinton is actually considered center-right, and Trump is far (crazy) right. This is why so many have trouble imagining voting for Clinton after supporting Bernie - her policies and history, just aren't very liberal. Still, incomparably better than Trump.

Talking is one thing, actually being able to do it is a totally different situation. Sanders talks a good talk, but it is VERY EVIDENT, that he truly has absolutely no idea or plan on how to implement anything he wants. All he wants to do is throw out the baby AND the bath water and start over, and that IS JUST NOT reality.... I do not believe that with the way he is behaving right now that he is the one to do bring that kind of change. NOR, do I believe that we are in the political climate right now to make drastic changes, and probably won't be for another generation OR TWO to make the changes that he wants to make on day 1. He was never really listened to before, and now he has found "a group"....."a group" of people that are loud, and listen to him....and it has given him that "tingle up his leg" that Obama gave many because it was "exciting", and it sounded "new" and "different"....but the political climate was just not ready for a paradigm shift, and it still isn't there yet....BUT, you want to keep the ball moving that direction, and if Sanders keeps yelling like he is, and grabbing the ball to go and play in his own yard? Then the ball will be lost for another generation because Trump will grab the ball and run like hell.

 

[Victarion]

Isn't it possible that Trump runs it so far to the other side that people become more willing for the shift Bernie's aiming for?

 

[Kelly]

Isn't it possible that Trump runs it so far to the other side that people become more willing for the shift Bernie's aiming for?

That would not be a societal paradigm shift, that would be a reaction. One changes generations, the other does not. You would simply have the reaction that you see in people following Trump just at the other end of the spectrum.

 

[Matt]

I dunno, it seems to me that a man of 'moral fiber' would continue to fight for his beliefs. I understand he'll almost certainly lose in the contested convention, but it would seem that he'd be doing his constituents and the ideals he's pushing for a disservice by pulling out when there's still a technical shot at winning. Remember, he's fighting for a movement, not just a nomination. This takes continued resolve, and not just pulling out of the race because it's politically expedient and expected. Of course, the big problem would be if the Bernie or Busters decide not to vote for Hillary in the general, which is a stupid as hell position to take.

Bernie has "moral fibers" to fight for his beliefs only when it is convenient. For example, Sanders has spent 30 years criticizing the Democratic Party and saying that it is a corrupt institution. When he decides to run for President, he joins the Democratic Party because it would be easier. Wouldn't a man of such strong convictions run as either an independent or as a member of the Socialist Party? He says how important it is for Democrats to join forces behind the nominee to combat Donald Trump in one breath and refers to Clinton as a member of the corrupt establishment in the next. He calls super-delegates an unconstitutional subversion of the will of the voters for half of the primary. When it becomes apparent he cannot win the pledged delegate vote, the popular vote, or a majority of states he calls on super delegates to subvert the will of the people and name him the nominee. Pretty selective moral fibers he's got there.

 

[Slushy]

If anything though Bernie staying in this long clearly shows he is not the man of moral fiber many on the internet like to make him out to be.

At least, he hasn't made a career out of telling lie after lie after lie, flip flop after flip flop after flip flop, but hey let's vote for Hillary because Trump's a "racist".

 

[Schlosser85]

Trump doesn't tell lie after lie and flip flop after flip flop?

 

[Kelly]

At least, he hasn't made a career out of telling lie after lie after lie, flip flop after flip flop after flip flop, but hey let's vote for Hillary because Trump's a "racist".

Seriously?



And those are just a few....

I understand about people evolving in their political thinking....but its funny how his evolved once he began running for the Republican candidacy.

As I called out President Obama's flip flop on "Same sex marriage" he flip flopped when he needed votes, money and backing, and the LGBT vote was not one he had gone after until that time.

 

[childeroland]

Clinton Lead Over Trump Would Grow Without Sanders in The Race

Excerpt:

The latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll shows Hillary Clinton with a narrow three-point lead over Donald Trump, 46 percent to 43 percent. But if Bernie Sanders were out of the race the NBC News political unit estimates her lead would likely be much larger, perhaps up around eight points, 51 percent to 43 percent.

The difference in those two scenarios is one kind of voter that pops in many polls: The Sanders-only supporter.

 

[Marvolo]

At least, he hasn't made a career out of telling lie after lie after lie, flip flop after flip flop after flip flop, but hey let's vote for Hillary because Trump's a "racist".

Trump lies and flip flops too.

Donald Trump supposedly told House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) he supports cutting Social Security but will not admit it publicly because it would hurt his election chances, according to a report in Bloomberg BusinessWeek.

The presumptive Republican presidential nominee reportedly made the comments during a May 12 meeting with Ryan aimed at mending ties between the two top Republican leaders, Bloomberg reported, citing an unnamed source who was in the room. (Ryan has yet to endorse Trump.)

“From a moral standpoint, I believe in it,” Trump said of cutting Social Security. “But you also have to get elected. And there’s no way a Republican is going to beat a Democrat when the Republican is saying, ‘We’re going to cut your Social Security’ and the Democrat is saying, ‘We’re going to keep it and give you more.’ ”

Trump’s professed opposition to cutting Social Security and Medicare has been both a hallmark of his campaign and one of his greatest departures from traditional conservative ideology. And Ryan, who repeatedly criticized Trump before the mogul effectively secured the GOP nomination, has made proposing dramatic reductions in the popular social insurance programs a defining feature of his congressional career.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-supports-cutting-social-security-report-says_us_5749db63e4b0dacf7ad515e4

This is just one of his latest lies in a long history of lying. Trump lies and flip flops like every other successful businessman and politician. I'll take the typical flip flopping and lies of a politician that I know won't take rights, healthcare, social progress etc from Americans over a documented proven liar that is also a racist and a bigot.

 

[auditor]

I'm way less worried about a divided Democratic party than I was a few weeks ago. we're better position for Unity than the Republican party was just a month ago or even the Democratic party was in 08 when Hillary and Obama were battling each other. over the last week and a half Bernie has been gradually changing his tone to guide his supporters over to support Hillary. the Democratic party with throw him a couple bones, and Bernie Sanders will tell his supporters "with Donald Trump as republican nominee, the choice has never been clearer."

Hillary Clinton will win in a landslide against Donald Trump.

 

[auditor]

If anything though Bernie staying in this long clearly shows he is not the man of moral fiber many on the internet like to make him out to be. He's being a petulant child right now when he has clearly lost fair and square yet he refuses to accept reality. He's pulling every dirty trick he claimed Clinton was doing and even went so far as to try and debate Trump when he hasn't even won the nomination. I voted for Bernie and I like a lot of his ideas but his refusal to stand down when the game has been lost clearly shows not all his motives for running are pure.

he's got to keep his supporters interested. if he had dropped out weeks ago his supporters would have just walked away mad. he's doing all kinds of position right now to send his supporters over to support Hillary.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

How so when he as been saying things like he plans on taking it all the way to the convention?

 

[Slushy]

Seriously?

[YT]h-dY77j6uBHI[/YT]

Yup. And I raise you with:

[YT]-dY77j6uBHI[/YT]

Hillary wouldn't know the truth if it bit her in the ass. She's made a career out of being a pathological liar, I don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth. The best part about all this is when she said about Sanders and I quote:

Ahem...

I understand about people evolving in their political thinking....but its funny how his evolved once he began running for the Republican candidacy.

Meh, doesn't bother me. McCain AND Romney did the same exact thing once they got the nom in order to tow the party's line. I believe all three men's beliefs on whatever subject before they became the Presidential choice is how they truly feel.

 

[Matt]

he's got to keep his supporters interested. if he had dropped out weeks ago his supporters would have just walked away mad. he's doing all kinds of position right now to send his supporters over to support Hillary.

He literally just said yesterday on Meet the Press that he will not tell his supporters to support Clinton. It is her job to win them over, not his job to endorse her.

[YT]h-dY77j6uBHI[/YT]

Yup. And I raise you with:

[YT]-dY77j6uBHI[/YT]

Hillary wouldn't know the truth if it bit her in the ass. She's made a career out of being a pathological liar, I don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth. The best part about all this is when she said about Sanders and I quote:

Ahem...



Meh, doesn't bother me. McCain AND Romney did the same exact thing once they got the nom in order to tow the party's line. I believe all three men's beliefs on whatever subject before they became the Presidential choice is how they truly feel.

But doesn't it bother you that in both 2004 and 2008 he was talking about running as a Democrat, donating money to Democratic candidates, and saying all kinds of progressive and populist things? It seems to me that Trump was willing to switch sides and change his ideology based on political convenience at the drop of a dime. He was waiting for the right opportunity to grab power. This is not about "making America great." This is about Donald Trump grabbing power by any means necessary. Say what you will about Clinton, but she has never changed her base ideology or tried to switch parties based on convenience.

 

[auditor]

How so when he as been saying things like he plans on taking it all the way to the convention?

same reason Hillary Clinton said the same thing in 2008. if you want your supporters to keep listening you have to give them hope that the fight isn't over. you gotta make this look good he doesn't want to just give up. his supporters need to believe that he tried and fought to the end. otherwise they will feel like they were betrayed and like they wasted their time volunteering for him.

Bernie Sanders has already come out and stated that the Democratic party has treated him very well and that Hillary Clinton's VP pick will be crucial to winning over his supporters. he gets to help write the party platform this year

 

[auditor]

[YT]h-dY77j6uBHI[/YT]

Yup. And I raise you with:

[YT]-dY77j6uBHI[/YT]

Hillary wouldn't know the truth if it bit her in the ass. She's made a career out of being a pathological liar, I don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth. The best part about all this is when she said about Sanders and I quote:

Ahem...



Meh, doesn't bother me. McCain AND Romney did the same exact thing once they got the nom in order to tow the party's line. I believe all three men's beliefs on whatever subject before they became the Presidential choice is how they truly feel.

he's got toxmake it look good for his supporters. After they throw him a few bones he will endorse her and he will say she won over hi supporters. This is all ritual theater at this point.

Bernie isn't trying to help Trump.