Game of Thrones - Book Readers' Thread - - - - - - - - Part 25

[Reek]

Professeor Ollena Umbridge

 

[Reek]

if a centaur were to hang dong... would it be the horses dong or the humans

 

[Perfect Cell]

The bottom half is the horse half, so... that would be horse, and the inflated sense of self-worth would be human.

 

[Reek]

i cant help but think some would get the short end of the... dong... and be made fun of

 

[Perfect Cell]

Sure, but those centaurs just end up writing movie reviews to compensate.

 

[Reek]

ThePenileOne

 

[Infinity9999x]

It's because Euron "Crow's Eye" Greyjoy of the books has been split on the show between Euron Greyjoy and the Night King. And as others have said, the show depiction of Euron is basically taking on the elements of Victarion to replace the Lovecraftian aspects of his character.

And going by the leaks [blackout] a bit of Young Griff as well. [/blackout]

Yep. And I don't necessarily mind that. I think it was you that I was discussing Euron with last year Roose. And while your points did really make me appreciate the creative creepiness GRRM installed into Euron in the books...so much of me was incredibly annoyed with being introduced an entirely new villain in Book 4, (and having him take up many chapters that appeared to have no connection to the overall main plot thread) that I couldn't really enjoy him while reading it.

There are many things the show does that really bug me, but I have enjoyed that they're moving the main plot forward and consolidating things. GRRM is getting dangerously close to Robert Jordan territory. He's created a wonderfully complex world, but he needs to realize you don't need to include the entire world in your story...not when you still have a story to finish.

 

[Loki882]

Euron feels like a "well we don't have Ramsey around anymore, so we need a new cackling psycho" type of character. And while the actor plays it well-enough, he comes across as too much like Ramsey for my tastes, at least right now.

 

[stillanerd]

It's because Euron "Crow's Eye" Greyjoy of the books has been split on the show between Euron Greyjoy and the Night King. And as others have said, the show depiction of Euron is basically taking on the elements of Victarion to replace the Lovecraftian aspects of his character.

And going by the leaks [blackout] a bit of Young Griff as well. [/blackout]

Which makes sense in light of how the show appears to have

Spoiler

combined Dany's and Griff/Aegon's plot together. If that's the case, then I thin the broad outline for the books will be that both the Martells and Tyrells will unite behind Griff/Aegon and the Golden Company, thus making it look as if Griff/Aegon's path to the Iron Throne is all but assured only for all three houses/armies to lose in some fashion.

Also, perhaps instead of Euron vs Asha, it's Euron vs. Victarion.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Yep. And I don't necessarily mind that. I think it was you that I was discussing Euron with last year Roose. And while your points did really make me appreciate the creative creepiness GRRM installed into Euron in the books...so much of me was incredibly annoyed with being introduced an entirely new villain in Book 4, (and having him take up many chapters that appeared to have no connection to the overall main plot thread) that I couldn't really enjoy him while reading it.

There are many things the show does that really bug me, but I have enjoyed that they're moving the main plot forward and consolidating things. GRRM is getting dangerously close to Robert Jordan territory. He's created a wonderfully complex world, but he needs to realize you don't need to include the entire world in your story...not when you still have a story to finish.

They did a similar thing to the Night King in the show, having him show up more towards the middle of the story and have him in the background until slowly building in prominence, but they can get away with it a little bit more I think. Euron in the book's is supposed to represent the "Night's King" for the modern age, but his connection to the Others and his role isn't immediately shown. With the show character Night King you know right away that he's with the White Walkers, he's not being perceived through the eyes of uncertain narrators/family members and we know in no uncertain terms who he is and what he means for the story.

Which makes sense in light of how the show appears to have

Spoiler

combined Dany's and Griff/Aegon's plot together. If that's the case, then I thin the broad outline for the books will be that both the Martells and Tyrells will unite behind Griff/Aegon and the Golden Company, thus making it look as if Griff/Aegon's path to the Iron Throne is all but assured only for all three houses/armies to lose in some fashion.

Also, perhaps instead of Euron vs Asha, it's Euron vs. Victarion.

This is my thinking too.

Spoiler

I think when Griff/Aegon march on Kings Landing the Tyrells will swiftly turn on the Lannisters and let the invaders inside the city. Arianne seems like she might be marrying Aegon (especially since she seems to be worried about the idea of Quentyn getting one over her by marrying Dany) so that'll bring the Martells onboard. Right now I think Cersei will escape, but her power base is pretty compromised.

 

[TheFuture]

What do we expect from the Golden Company lads? Introduced for a worthwhile purpose or just a handy "name" army to reinforce Cersei's ranks.

I don't expect a Blackfyre introduction to the show mythos but perhaps a more generalised blood tie to any Targaryen "bastard". Will certainly be interesting to see what happens if Jon's parentage becomes common knowledge next season.

 

[Marvolo]

With so few episodes left (9) I think it's foolish to introduce the Golden Company. The show has enough **** to deal with and wrap up already without introducing a whole new faction for Cersei to use against the good guys.

 

[Reek]

Didn't they introduce the golden company in season 4? I thought (show wise) Stannis took Davos advice, hired the golden company with money he got from the iron bank, and attacked Mance.

 

[TheFuture]

Yeah I agree, Euron and Cersei should be the last great human threat without any further support outside of probably the iron bank.

 

[Marvolo]

Didn't they introduce the golden company in season 4? I thought (show wise) Stannis took Davos advice, hired the golden company with money he got from the iron bank, and attacked Mance.

He hired mercs (I can't remember if it was the GC), but whoever he hired they were only mentioned. We never actually saw them.

 

[Reek]

We saw them attack Mance... and then throughout season 5 up until Stannis burned Shireen and they dipped out... But yea it was never stated if it was the golden company... i just always figured it was since Davos made the point "its ok to use blood magic but not sellswords?" (referring to the golden company)....

Then he went and paid Salador Saan... I assumed the whole time his fleet took the GC beyond the wall... now I'll be disappointed if it wasn't and blame you for ruining my week.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Going by the leaks [blackout] Euron is sent to fetch them at the end of Season 7 with his Iron Fleet [/blackout], I think that Cersei may have brought about her own downfall there.

 

[TheFuture]

A hilarious Braveheart-esque double cross on the battle field would do quite nicely. Was hoping we'd get that last season.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Didn't they introduce the golden company in season 4? I thought (show wise) Stannis took Davos advice, hired the golden company with money he got from the iron bank, and attacked Mance.

It was mentioned only. And at the time, I recall seeing bts images of golden skulls on a pike, but of the sellswords Stannis had on the show, they only mentioned the Stormcrows.

I don't expect the GC to be more than new grunts. I doubt they retain theire backstory, if I'm honest.

 

[Roose Bolton]

They may mention that the Golden Company was founded by Westerosi exiles and the general notion that they have an old grudge against House Targaryen. That's really all you need to know about them without the full Blackfyre storyline being adapted, that are that they're a strong military force.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

^ That'd be a way to do it.

 

[godisawesome]

They may mention that the Golden Company was founded by Westerosi exiles and the general notion that they have an old grudge against House Targaryen. That's really all you need to know about them without the full Blackfyre storyline being adapted, that are that they're a strong military force.

Agreed. Though I'd maybe go further and have it made clear their history involves some land hunger to accompanying the grudge, and maybe even have Cersei promise to raise them as the new lords of Westeros if she wins.

Okay, here's a theory put forth by a listener on my favorite GOT podcast (Baldmove) that I'm going to put in spoilers since I believe the leaks have confirmed part of it outright:

Spoiler

Is it possible that not only will Cersei make it out of this season and gain the Gold Company, but actually outlast the White Walkers to become the final, if less formidable, opponent? The idea was patterned after Babylon 5, where the Shadow War was won mid-season-5 and the final arcs dealt with a Minbari Civil War and the Liberation of Earth from Clarke's Regime.

I could see them doing something like this, though almost as a matter of course, the good guys will have to lose a lot to once more even the playing fields, and by that, I mean the dragons dying in the Long Night.

 

[Roose Bolton]

My personal view is that

Spoiler

After Jaime leaves her, Cersei fully loses herself to madness. Euron's already worked his way into her graces by taking advantage of her precarious mental state, using the death of Myrcella and the subsequent "justice" he gave her as a means to win her trust. Jaime and Tycho Nestoris have both warned her about what kind of man he is, but so far she's operated under the belief that he's loyal and that she can control him without having to give him what he wants. I think with Jaime out of the picture she'll come to rely on him completely, and in her desperation forget that she's allowed a monster into her home and her heart. He's no good for her, and I do believe he'll knowingly lead her into her self-destruction.

Now, Euron in the books is a figure more akin to Nyarlathotep, Randall Flagg and in some ways, Saruman the White. The show has eskewed the supernatural and apocalyptic leanings of the character, but I could still see him serving as something of a satan figure, pushing Cersei further and further to the point of madness for Jaime and Tyrion to confront. The two of them domineering the South could be an effective "Scouring of the Shire" type moment for the last few episodes of the show.

 

[TheFuture]

My personal view is that

Spoiler

After Jaime leaves her, Cersei fully loses herself to madness. Euron's already worked his way into her graces by taking advantage of her precarious mental state, using the death of Myrcella and the subsequent "justice" he gave her as a means to win her trust. Jaime and Tycho Nestoris have both warned her about what kind of man he is, but so far she's operated under the belief that he's loyal and that she can control him without having to give him what he wants. I think with Jaime out of the picture she'll come to rely on him completely, and in her desperation forget that she's allowed a monster into her home and her heart. He's no good for her, and I do believe he'll knowingly lead her into her self-destruction.

Now, Euron in the books is a figure more akin to Nyarlathotep, Randall Flagg and in some ways, Saruman the White. The show has eskewed the supernatural and apocalyptic leanings of the character, but I could still see him serving as something of a satan figure, pushing Cersei further and further to the point of madness for Jaime and Tyrion to confront. The two of them domineering the South could be an effective "Scouring of the Shire" type moment for the last few episodes of the show.

I can see that in the books as GRRM has built up Cersei as the type of ****wit who would end up as the unwitting play thing of Euron.

But the show has built up Cersei as this unbelievably shrewd and smart individual to the point that it's likelier that Euron will become her unwitting play thing. He's better this season, but he's still just this utter ****wit who doesn't have much about him beyond savagery in battle and as a charismatic leader.

You can see it already where Cersei gets him all cock eyed by telling him she'll give him what he wants after the war is over.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I can see that in the books as GRRM has built up Cersei as the type of ****wit who would end up as the unwitting play thing of Euron.

But the show has built up Cersei as this unbelievably shrewd and smart individual to the point that it's likelier that Euron will become her unwitting play thing. He's better this season, but he's still just this utter ****wit who doesn't have much about him beyond savagery in battle and as a charismatic leader.

You can see it already where Cersei gets him all cock eyed by telling him she'll give him what he wants after the war is over.

I think at her best, yes, but I think the character's going through a devolution this season and will continue to do so. Not for nothing did Tycho Nestoris point out that Cersei's military power is entirely dependent on Euron's loyalty which he and Jaime have continually noted was fickle at best. You don't introduce that chekov's gun without firing it at some point.