Game of Thrones - HBO part 2 - Part 3

[Marvolo]

He is his father's son. Ned and his boys don't treat the opposite sex like that. She was right and as hard as he tried, he had to accept it. If it had been a man, he would of probably asked for a duel.

It has nothing to with her being a woman. Its because she is beneath him. Remember this is a medieval caste system. Right or wrong it doesn't matter. Her approach was disrespectful and not how you talk to a king or any superior for that matter. Even if he is a good man and a good king he can't let people beneath him talk down to him. It causes problems in the ranks and can lead to mutiny. Robb has already put his mother in her place for questioning him in front of his men. In the book he was more stern about the point. It makes him look weak when people beneath him question him without his leave to do so. This scene just made him look like a boy scolded.

And no the nurse was not right. This is war and soldiers and innocent people die in war. Her view on the matter was naive. Furthermore Robb's cause is a just cause as far as the North's freedom is concerned.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I did like how even though Renly insulted him, he only took offense to being called a ham.

This episode had a lot of seemingly random moments. A nurse berating a king, and then Tywin Lannister just showing up for no reason.

I also have to wonder about Miss Targaryen and the Dothraki, when exactly do they finally become part of the main storyline again? Seems like they're getting further and further away from the main plot.

Not even the readers of the books know that.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Oh. Great.

Yeah, I'm not saying Robb should have had her taken away for lese majeste or anything. But he could have just said "shut up peasant". You don't mouth off to a king, much less a king who just won a battle. And he looks rather silly arguing with her.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Tyrion Lannister feared Renly coming up the Rose Road more until Stannis approached Storm's End instead of King's Landing (all condensed for obvious reasons on the show).

Stannis was feared more even when he was brooding on Dragonstone. The Lannisters knew Renly was just biding his time with his tournaments in the Reach, waiting for Robb Stark to wear out Tywin. As Donal Noye said, Renly is copper, looks pretty but doesn't hold an edge.

Renly is a king who actually has ideas about serving the realm and improving Westros (even if it is ego stroking). Sure he is arrogant, but he is far better than Joffrey or Stannis for the Iron Throne. I know you love Stannis, but he is a bound up, brittle ego that is ready to break at all times. Sure, he is action at the end of ASOS is a great noble thing, but it's only after [blackout]he loses most of his forces on the Blackwater.[/blackout] Stannis only cares about getting what is his "by rights." It is as much about ego as with Renly, but he has no interest in the realm during ACOK and most of ASOS. It is all about him and he is too prickly and off-putting to rule. I don't think either Baratheon brother could actually hold the throne for very long.

Renly's only idea is charming his way to the Iron Throne, getting favor from the Storm Lords and Mace Tyrell. They may like him but they don't respect him. The Vale, the North, and Dorne certainly didn't care. I would argue Stannis cares about the realm. He fought one rebellion and against another, now he fights against a false king, a usurper, and two rebels. He sees the realm needs order and justice and is willing to deliver it.

Who is more fit to defend the realm from the White Walkers and dragons, Stannis or Renly?

This passage sold me on Stannis:

"I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert. He loved me but little, I know, yet he was my brother. The Lannister woman gave him horns and made a motley fool of him. She may have murdered him as well, as she murdered Jon Arryn and Ned Stark. For such crimes there must be justice. Starting with Cersei and her abominations. But only starting. I mean to scour that court clean. As Robert should have done, after the Trident."

Oh. Great.

Yeah, I'm not saying Robb should have had her taken away for lese majeste or anything. But he could have just said "shut up peasant". You don't mouth off to a king, much less a king who just won a battle. And he looks rather silly arguing with her.

You're forgetting one thing: he isn't her king.

 

[Thundercrack85]

He is a king. Hell even a lord wouldn't put up with that.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It has nothing to with her being a woman. Its because she is beneath him. Remember this is a medieval caste system. Right or wrong it doesn't matter. Her approach was disrespectful and not how you talk to a king or any superior for that matter. Even if he is a good man and a good king he can't let people beneath him talk down to him. It causes problems in the ranks and can lead to mutiny. Robb has already put his mother in her place for questioning him in front of his men. In the book he was more stern about the point. It makes him look weak when people beneath him question him without his leave to do so. This scene just made him look like a boy scolded.

And no the nurse was not right. This is war and soldiers and innocent people die in war. Her view on the matter was naive. Furthermore Robb's cause is a just cause as far as the North's freedom is concerned.

A medieval caste system really doesn't apply to matters of the heart for the Starks. Their status is only relevant when they are trying to defend their pouting or handling their duties. Just look at Ned, his siblings and children.

And yes she was right. Robb is all about being the brave young King leading his men into battle, it is afterall his duty, but he has not one idea what to do once the fighting ends. He has a cause but no resolution. The rules of Inigo Montoya don't really apply when children are dying.

Come next season, this will be even more apparent.

Oh. Great.

Yeah, I'm not saying Robb should have had her taken away for lese majeste or anything. But he could have just said "shut up peasant". You don't mouth off to a king, much less a king who just won a battle. And he looks rather silly arguing with her.

He is clearly smitten. That was the whole point of the scene really. Robb is king, but he is still a boy, and a pretty lady was getting in his grill.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Okay, I can buy that.

 

[Marvolo]

A medieval caste system really doesn't apply to matters of the heart for the Starks. Their status is only relevant when they are trying to defend their pouting or handling their duties. Just look at Ned, his siblings and children. Ned would defend his position, even to a peasant.

And yes she was right. Robb is all about being the brave young King leading his men into battle, it is afterall his duty, but he has not one idea what to do once the fighting ends. He has a cause but no resolution. The rules of Inigo Montoya don't really apply when children are dying.

Come next season, this will be even more apparent.



He is clearly smitten.

You are missing the point. Robb is a KING now. It does not matter if his honor tells him to heed what the nurse said. His position the culture and society demands he show his authority or he can kiss that position good bye. There are things expected of him. He can't play king he has to act like a king. When in positions of power such as this you can not let people talk down to you. At the very least he should have sternly reminded her of her place. What he did was unrealistic given his position and shows he isn't ready to be a king. One of the sacrifices a king must make is doing things he does not like. He showed a weakness tonight.

Having read the books I know what is coming, but that scene made it obvious Robb still doesn't know how to act like a King. In a society like theirs a King who shows weakness will not be king for long. Furthermore a weak and unsure leader makes a weak army and realm.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You are missing the point. Robb is a KING now. It does not matter if his honor tells him to heed what the nurse said. His position the culture and society demands he show his authority or he can kiss that position good bye. There are things expected of him. He can't play king he has to act like a king. When in positions of power such as this you can not let people talk down to you. At the very least he should have sternly reminded her of her place. What he did was unrealistic given his position and shows he isn't ready to be a king. One of the sacrifices a king must make is doing things he does not like. He showed a weakness tonight.

Having read the books I know what is coming, but that scene made it obvious Robbie still doesn't know how to act like a King.

Robb is not simply a king, He is a King of the North. He is Ned Stark's son. When it comes to being a leader of men, he learned it all from his father. Just like Jon. Honor and duty go hand in hand. What need is their to assert his authority on a field nurse? Oh because it looks bad? Do you really think that is something Ned would of instilled in his children? Children that include Jon and Arya?

Also, Robb is an 18 (?) boy on the show is he not? Of course he doesn't know what it means to be a King.

Look at the "Kings" in the universe of ASOIAF. The manual on good Kingship was clearly lost when the Targs showed up and started burning things.

 

[DACrowe]

Completely disagree with your description of Stannis. If Stannis was that, Davos would not be as loyal to him as he is. Stannis believes in the truth, justice and his duty. His problem is he is stern and cold, but his heart is in the right place. He is very much a less likable Ned.

He believes in what is right, and what is right is his behind on the Iron Throne. If it wasn't his right he wouldn't be fighting this war.

[blackout]Ned wouldn't cheat on his wife, murder his brother, consider feeding children and babies to fire and burn his own men alive for giving him unwanted advice. [/blackout]

 

[Primal Slayer]

Another enjoyable episode. That ending was a wtf ending, was not expecting a demonic smoke baby to crawl out of her belly. Not looking foward to next week since I like the character and it will be a sad moment and an ending to something enjoyable.

 

[DACrowe]

Stannis was feared more even when he was brooding on Dragonstone. The Lannisters knew Renly was just biding his time with his tournaments in the Reach, waiting for Robb Stark to wear out Tywin. As Donal Noye said, Renly is copper, looks pretty but doesn't hold an edge.

He also said that Stannis was iron. Tough and strong, but brittle. When pressure is applied, it/he easily breaks.

Renly's only idea is charming his way to the Iron Throne, getting favor from the Storm Lords and Mace Tyrell. They may like him but they don't respect him. The Vale, the North, and Dorne certainly didn't care. I would argue Stannis cares about the realm. He fought one rebellion and against another, now he fights against a false king, a usurper, and two rebels. He sees the realm needs order and justice and is willing to deliver it.

Who is more fit to defend the realm from the White Walkers and dragons, Stannis or Renly?

And Stannis just relies on person to get him the Iron Throne. Melissandre. And to curry her favor he would [blackout]burn babies alive, consider the murder of bastard nephews, cheat on his wife, break his wedding vows, and murder his own brother.[/blackout]

Renly actually spoke of reforming King's Landing in the book and providing new services to the common people. It may have been out of vanity, but he actually wanted to improve the lives of the Westerosi. Stannis only wants what is expected. HIs older brother went to war with the Targaryens and out of duty and loyalty to an elder brother he hated, he joined them. Because of his own suspicions (in the book) and Ned Stark's letter, he knows Joffrey is not his brother's son and therefore wants the Iron Throne because it's his. What does he do want to do with it? He never says. He just wants it because he thinks he's entitled to it.

He only [blackout]went to defend the Wall AFTER losing his ability to take KL on the Blackwater and AFTER Davos reminded him of his duty. Keep in mind, he was five seconds away from setting Davos on fire because he doesn't trust Melissandre.[/blackout]

I honestly think people mix up what Davos sees in Stannis (as Davos is the POV we usually see him from) and Davos's own strong morality with Stannis's. The king's actions, other than one brief selfless moment late in ASOS, are not so noble as he likes to pretend they are or Davos wants to believe they are. That's how I have always viewed him. And again, a man that unloved could never rule for long.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

[blackout]Ned wouldn't cheat on his wife, murder his brother, consider feeding children and babies to fire and burn his own men alive for giving him unwanted advice. [/blackout]

Unless you believe [BLACKOUT]R+L= J[/BLACKOUT], then yes Ned did do that first one.

Ned did what his code asked him to. This is the man who cut off a man's head for running away from the Wall. He would do the same if Benjen or Jon were the deserter. Is that any different from what [BLACKOUT]Stannis does to Renly[/BLACKOUT]? A man committing treason?

The rest, Stannis serves his God just like Ned served his.

He also said that Stannis was iron. Tough and strong, but brittle. When pressure is applied, it/he easily breaks.




And Stannis just relies on person to get him the Iron Throne. Melissandre. And to curry her favor he would [blackout]burn babies alive, consider the murder of bastard nephews, cheat on his wife, break his wedding vows, and murder his own brother.[/blackout]

Renly actually spoke of reforming King's Landing in the book and providing new services to the common people. It may have been out of vanity, but he actually wanted to improve the lives of the Westerosi. Stannis only wants what is expected. HIs older brother went to war with the Targaryens and out of duty and loyalty to an elder brother he hated, he joined them. Because of his own suspicions (in the book) and Ned Stark's letter, he knows Joffrey is not his brother's son and therefore wants the Iron Throne because it's his. What does he do want to do with it? He never says. He just wants it because he thinks he's entitled to it.

He only [blackout]went to defend the Wall AFTER losing his ability to take KL on the Blackwater and AFTER Davos reminded him of his duty. Keep in mind, he was five seconds away from setting Davos on fire because he doesn't trust Melissandre.[/blackout]

I honestly think people mix up what Davos sees in Stannis (as Davos is the POV we usually see him from) and Davos's own strong morality with Stannis's. The king's actions, other than one brief selfless moment late in ASOS, are not so noble as he likes to pretend they are or Davos wants to believe they are. That's how I have always viewed him. And again, a man that unloved could never rule for long.

The thing is, it is Stannis throne. You skip over that fact like it is unimportant. It is the reason Ned and Jon Arryn is dead.

You think he be doing this if it wasn't what was right? That is Stannis in a nutshell and why I love him.

 

[Marvolo]

Robb is not simply a king, He is a King of the North. He is Ned Stark's son. When it comes to being a leader of men, he learned it all from his father. Just like Jon. Honor and duty go hand in hand. What need is their to assert his authority on a field nurse? Oh because it looks bad? Do you really think that is something Ned would of instilled in his children? Children that include Jon and Arya?

Also, Robb is an 18 (?) boy on the show is he not? Of course he doesn't know what it means to be a King.

Look at the "Kings" in the universe of ASOIAF. The manual on good Kingship was clearly lost when the Targs showed up and started burning things.

His father is dead, because he couldn't play the game and was a slave to his honor. Your still missing the point though. I tell you what you go insult a military general about his strategy or reason for fighting and see where that gets you. Now imagine its the middle ages and you just insulted a king. Whatever the general does to you is going to make what the king does to you seem like heaven. Point being, look at any king in the middle ages and show me a person who lived very long after insulting him. You wont find one cause no one was dumb enough to do it and those who were got wiped off the map in nasty unpleasant ways. Its just something you don't do. Had a soldier overheard that exchange it would have been the topic around the tankard. "Hey our king lets nurse wenches talk down to him." Next thing you know whisperings are proclaiming Robb lends his ear to women and he's viewed about as powerful as a wet noodle. In a society where women are viewed as being beneath men a man who listens to them and is talked down to by them is no man let alone a king. Ned Stark is dead and Robb should take a little less advice from him and more from his knowledge of how the realm works.

You act as if the Starks never put a woman in their place. Ned put Cat in her place over Jon and Robb should have put the nurse in her place. No I'm not saying beat, filet, and fry the girl; but a stern word to remind where she stands in the ladder of life wouldnt have been a bad thing. Besides because he didn't she's probably gonna run her mouth off at the wrong Knight or King and then she will be beaten, filleted, and fried. Women's equality and all that great stuff won't get her far in that society. But hey Robb looks a fool and she gets to go on in life to die for insulting someone else. Everybody wins I guess.

 

[chamber-music]

Fun fact everyone the nurse Talisa who Robb seems to be into is played by Charlie Chaplins granddaughter Oona Chaplin.

Jofffery is one sadistic little twerp.

Bronn had the best line of the week. There is no cure for being a ****

The Lannisters need to change their family motto to 'Keeping it in the family'.

Ros is like the small town girl who has dreams of being in the big city and finds out its a hell hole full of scum bags.

So thats how the lost smoke monster came about

Renly should of teamed up with Stannis and Robb. Robb doesn't want to be king or care about being King of the North. Stannis would reward him if he helped him take the Iron Throne anyway.
Renly would just have to bide his time as Stannis would not last on the Iron Throne too long and he would be next in line anyway.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

His father is dead, because he couldn't play the game and was a slave to his honor. Your still missing the point though. I tell you what you go insult a military general about his strategy or reason for fighting and see where that gets you. Now imagine its the middle ages and you just insulted a king. Whatever the general does to you is going to make what the king does to you seem like heaven. Point being, look at any king in the middle ages and show me a person who lived very long after insulting him. You wont find one cause no one was dumb enough to do it and those who were got wiped off the map in nasty unpleasant ways. Its just something you don't do. Had a soldier overheard that exchange it would have been the topic around the tankard. "Hey our king lets nurse wenches talk down to him." Next thing you know whisperings are proclaiming Robb lends his ear to women and he's viewed about as powerful as a wet noodle. In a society where women are viewed as being beneath men a man who listens to them and is talked down to by them is no man let alone a king. Ned Stark is dead and Robb should take a little less advice from him and more from his knowledge of how the realm works.

You act as if the Starks never put a woman in their place. Ned put Cat in her place over Jon and Robb should have put the nurse in her place. No I'm not saying beat, filet, and fry the girl; but a stern word to remind where she stands in the ladder of life wouldnt have been a bad thing. Besides because he didn't she's probably gonna run her mouth off at the wrong Knight or King and then she will be beaten, filleted, and fried. Women's equality and all that great stuff won't get her far in that society. But hey Robb looks a fool and she gets to go on in life to die for insulting someone else. Everybody wins I guess.

Robert put his wife in her place. Where did that get him?

You do realize that most of everything Robb knows about how the realm works comes from his father right? Abandoning his father's teaching would be abandoning everything knows in this regard.

And I think you are missing the point. The first 5 books of the series have shown countless examples of ways to rule. There is a reason this is the War of the Five Kings. Five very different Kings. This is no one way to rule. That Robb doesn't feel the need to "put her in her place" isn't a mark against him. You don't need to slap down every person that gives you lip. The Young Wolf has more then enough cred by being undefeated on the battlefield. Anyone questioning Robb can just say hi to Grey Wind.

And I doubt she need worry about any other King when she is clearly GoT version of [BLACKOUT]Jeyne Westerling[/BLACKOUT].

 

[Marvolo]

Robert put his wife in her place. Where did that get him?

You do realize that most of everything Robb knows about how the realm works comes from his father right? Abandoning his father's teaching would be abandoning everything knows in this regard.

And I think you are missing the point. The first 5 books of the series have shown countless examples of ways to rule. There is a reason this is the War of the Five Kings. Five very different Kings. This is no one way to rule. That Robb doesn't feel the need to "put her in her place" isn't a mark against him. You don't need to slap down every person that gives you lip. The Young Wolf has more then enough cred by being undefeated on the battlefield. Anyone questioning Robb can just say hi to Grey Wind.

And I doubt she need worry about any other King when she is clearly GoT version of [BLACKOUT]Jeyne Westerling[/BLACKOUT].

Your still not seeing my point that every king must act like a king. Whether its a king in a distant galaxy, middle earth, or freaking Narnia you don't let people talk down to you. It goes against what it means to be king in a culture such as this that is to say a king in such a culture is almighty, second to god or gods, above all in the realm etc. To quote the eunich "Power resides were men believe it resides." If a person makes you look like a ***** you aren't very powerful looking now are you? There is an image that must be upheld by all kings no matter where they reside or rule. I know this is a mountain out of a molehill, but for me its about principle more so than the severity of the slight. You let one person get away with it it becomes 2, 10, 100 and so on and so on. Stop it while it is small and easy to take care of before the molehill does in fact become a mountain. That's all I'm saying. I think we've beat this poor horse to death, and we can agree to disagree. It's all good.

One thing, though, please tell me they didn't replace Jeyne with this nurse. Or was that nurse actually Jeyne? The scene certainly played out like Robb was smitten and would take further interest in her.

Edit: Nevermind. I checked it out, and yep that is Jeyne. Well, slap me thrice, and hand me to my moma! Lol, that scene makes a lot more sense now.

 

[Havok83]

Seriously, WTF!?!?!?!?

 

[Crockett]

I wish it ended with what happens afterwards with [BLACKOUT]Renly's death[/BLACKOUT] instead of the one we got, it certainly would've been more shocking but it's all right.

That Joffrey scene however felt tacked on, it feels like the series wants him to be more twisted than he is in the books, like he's the incarnation of evil itself or something, also I'm sure audience hates Joffrey, so why do they have the need to hammering it even more, and I thought the Qarth scene was a bit, awkwardly written.

 

[Buford The Sly]

I get why they changed the order of the shadowbaby, but it's one of the changes that I didn't like. [BLACKOUT]Renly's death was such a shocker in the books. That was a real what the heck just happened moment. I know for budget reasons they probably had to cut the real reason Davos smuggles Melisandre into the cave.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Marvolo]

I wish it ended with what happens afterwards with [BLACKOUT]Renly's death[/BLACKOUT] instead of the one we got, it certainly would've been more shocking but it's all right.

That Joffrey scene however felt tacked on, it feels like the series wants him to be more twisted than he is in the books, like he's the incarnation of evil itself or something, also I'm sure audience hates Joffrey, so why do they have the need to hammering it even more, and I thought the Qarth scene was a bit, awkwardly written.

In the series Rome Augustus was sexually aroused by pain. I don't remember that being in the history books. In the bedroom he liked to be choked and hit and to choke and hit his wife. Seems they are imparting a similar masochist nature upon Joffrey. It certainly makes him more detestable, but at some point it could become laughable that this child would be that demented. He's bordering on Michael Myers sociopathic tendencies. Really, HBO does show a teenager attitude towards sex, and they abuse its use in their shows to impart character growth and development.

 

[conan69]

They might not be changing the order of the shadowbaby.. they might be condensing it into one action, instead of two, due to time constraints. Thats what Im betting on.

I kind of have to agree about Stannis portryal on the show. Im enjoying it, but he's a very complicated character and there seems to be some crucial character stuff missing.

With 10 episodes, and so much to tell, I wish theyd extend the time of these episodes to a bit over a hour (say 1:10 each). Theyre flying by.

 

[Marvolo]

It does seem like these episodes are short compared to most HBO shows. They seem to be around 45-50 minutes which seems short for an HBO hour block show.

 

[conan69]

About Robb,he was stern enough when dealing with getting lip from those around him in the company of others... I think he let that slide because he was alone w/ her, no one was really listening to their conversation,enamored by her and was impartial. Robb was raised to be a soldier, not a king,which we know will cause him some problems later. BTW, The 'They can just say hello to Grey Wind' comment above made me laugh.

 

[Marvolo]

About Robb,he was stern enough when dealing with getting lip from those around him in the company of others... I think he let that slide because he was alone w/ her, no one was really listening to their conversation,enamored by her and was impartial. Robb was raised to be a soldier, not a king,which we know will cause him some problems later. BTW, The 'They can just say hello to Grey Wind' comment above made me laugh.

It's somewhat interesting that the episode opened with play on the ol' "Boy who cried Wolf" tale. Soldier cries wolf, friend doesn't believe him when soldier really hears something, wolf eats both.