Game of Thrones - HBO part 2 - Part 3

[Marvin]

this show is off the chain

 

[chaseter]

If you were a "masochist", you would be the one in the bed with a scepter up your hole . . . Joffrey is a sadist.

Goffrey is a sadist, I am a masochist.

 

[Jordacar]

Some thoughts from last night:

-Yikes. Davos is so not hitting that. (And to think Melisandre and the gall to be all seductive beforehand. Ugh.)
-Tyrion continues to be my favorite character ever. I'll never get tired of him calling any and every jerkass on their BS in the awesomest way possible. And his crack about Pycelle's hair made me lol.
-Looks like Joffrey's already picked his favorite nameday present. Think maybe he's compensating for something with that gigantic crossbow? (Which reminds me of Yoren's last words: "I hate crossbows! Takes too long to load!")
-I'm getting more into the Baratheons and their feud. Stannis and Renly would each be better than the current king, but they're both still *****ey in their own way so I have no idea where it's going to go from here.
-Tywin riding in like a boss was epic. I've never been so happy to see a Lannister not named Tyrion.
-Daenerys needs to work on those empty threats, but she's off to a promising start.

Also I have a couple minor yes-or-no spoiler questions:
1) Will Arya get Needle back?
2) Will we ever see Ser Barristan again?

 

[FCEEVIPER]

I loving all these redheads in season 2!!

I'm on redhead overload! t:

 

[O'Haire]

Also I have a couple minor yes-or-no spoiler questions:
1) Will Arya get Needle back?
2) Will we ever see Ser Barristan again?

Spoiler

Yes to both

 

[Valaquen]

Some thoughts from last night:
Also I have a couple minor yes-or-no spoiler questions:
1) Will Arya get Needle back?
2) Will we ever see Ser Barristan again?

Spoiler

1) Yes
2) Yes, oh yes!

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I see it more of a **** you message to Tyrion since he stopped him from going further from punishing Sansa so he took it out on the ****es rather than him trying to get his "fix", but I dunno, I felt like since they had Sansa being punished in the very same episode it feels unnecessary to see him doing more evil deeds and at this point, we as a viewer have enough reasons to hate the character, so that scene felt more of hammering it to us with the whole look at this character, he's so evil.

My only problem with the scene is that they didn't follow it up with Tyrion's reaction.

It does seem like these episodes are short compared to most HBO shows. They seem to be around 45-50 minutes which seems short for an HBO hour block show.

The shows run the typical length. Some are longer, some short. All between 48 and 55 minutes.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Ned kills desserters who broke an oath they knew that was punishable by death. He doesn't kill [blackout]his men for unwanted advice or seriously consider feeding nephews (Jon) or innocent babies to the flames because a red priestess/witch he is sleeping with tells him too.[/blackout]

Also, I don't believe he would [blackout]kill his brother[/blackout] for a crown.



He doesi t because he is entitled to it.. But to paraphrase Varys, power is a trick, a shadow on the wall. Just because it should be his by law really means it is his. His claim is weak and he has to rely on evil magic to even come close. I just don't think he is the just and fair lord he imagines himself to be and many do. He is a utilitarian through and through. He will sacrifice anything and every last one of his principles to get his throne. That makes him a self-righteous blowhard to me. He got screwed over by Robert when he got Dragonstone and his younger brother who didn't even fight in the war got Storm's End. He got screwed over again when Robert made Ned Stark Hand instead of him. He is a bruised ego. Maybe when he held Storm's End and took Davos's fingers he was the honorable man. But wounded pride and the seduction of power corrupted him before he ever left Dragonstone, in my opinion.

Stannis doesn't do what he does for a crown. He does it because it is what is right according to his code, just like Ned. Stannis and Mel have both warned Renly. He could have taken the deal. He didn't. He was already breaking the law by opposing his brother.

And his claim is not weak. That he doesn't have an army big enough because he doesn't kiss everyone's backside, doesn't mean his claim is weak. His is the best claim.

My point is, that the Baratheons only got the throne because the public backed them. They are usurpers. If the public doesn't want them, then they have no legitimate claim.

The same can be about the Targaryens. The kingdoms of Westeros were fine until the crazies showed up.

And even still, there is no Targaryen heirs left, outside of the Baratheons. Females can not sit on the Iron Throne.

Well unless [BLACKOUT]Rhaegar and Lyanna did marry and Jon is their son. [/BLACKOUT]

 

[Marvolo]

Im a Stannis fan. The crown is legitimately and by law his, and imo he's the best choice out of those fighting for the iron throne.

 

[DACrowe]

I'll say it one last time. It being "his by rights" is irrelevant. As Varys said, power is a trick and men see it where they want to. The reason Stannis is ineffective as a ruler and always will be is that nobody sees him as a leader other than Melissandre and Davos. As a general? Sure. But he doesn't command loyalty, respect or even fear per se. He commands the minimum amount of respect for his station, because he only has the minimum level of toleration for everyone around him. That's why things never go quite his way. It's why Robert hated him. It's why Ned was the second in command in the war and the first choice for Hand over him. It's why his home lands all turned their back on him and went to Renly.

And he compensates for this how? By breaking the law in a much more profound way. [blackout]Fratricide and kinslaying is far more frowned upon in Westeros than realpolitik.[/blackout] If you like Ned or hated the Mad King, and even Jaime Lannister fell into the latter, than saying it is Stannis "by rights" is moot.

 

[Marvolo]

Honestly I don't care about all that. For me he is a very interesting character. As for the crown, the people of westeros would have demanded him had they known Joffry was born of incest. However the war broke out and the Lannisters spun everything and took control. By law Stannis still has the only legitimate claim. Right now in the current political climate that law means squat but me as an impartial reader who can see all the angles and past the lies and double dealings can see that Stannis is still the only legitimate claim. You are looking at him and the situation as the Westorossi see him given the political climate . I'm looking at him and situation as I see him without all that crap. The things that you said make him illegitimate are illegitimate themselves so he still has more claim than anyone else.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I'll say it one last time. It being "his by rights" is irrelevant. As Varys said, power is a trick and men see it where they want to.

Vary's riddle is about perception. The Iron Throne is rightfully Stannis' whether or not people believe it or care.

The reason Stannis is ineffective as a ruler and always will be is that nobody sees him as a leader other than Melissandre and Davos. As a general? Sure. But he doesn't command loyalty, respect or even fear per se. He commands the minimum amount of respect for his station, because he only has the minimum level of toleration for everyone around him. That's why things never go quite his way. It's why Robert hated him. It's why Ned was the second in command in the war and the first choice for Hand over him. It's why his home lands all turned their back on him and went to Renly.

Other people do accept Stannis as a ruler, they just aren't featured as prominently as Davos and Mel.

Ned was second in command during the rebellion because Robert was leading the Stormland army and needed Stannis to hold Storm's End. He never cared for Stannis because he replaced him with Ned having been fostered together by Jon Arryn.

He may not be the perfect ruler but no one is.

And he compensates for this how? By breaking the law in a much more profound way. [blackout]Fratricide and kinslaying is far more frowned upon in Westeros than realpolitik.[/blackout] If you like Ned or hated the Mad King, and even Jaime Lannister fell into the latter, than saying it is Stannis "by rights" is moot.

[blackout]It isn't kinslaying. Murder is a crime, execution is a punishment. Renly defied his brother and his king, he knew the consequences.[/blackout]

 

[Thundercrack85]

Whatever happened to the ol' speech on horseback to the troops? Rally them and stuff. We need some of that.

 

[DIRECTOR]

man, if i was in Joffery's place with those two ladies......... wheeewwww you do not want to be in mind right now!

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'll say it one last time. It being "his by rights" is irrelevant. As Varys said, power is a trick and men see it where they want to. The reason Stannis is ineffective as a ruler and always will be is that nobody sees him as a leader other than Melissandre and Davos. As a general? Sure. But he doesn't command loyalty, respect or even fear per se. He commands the minimum amount of respect for his station, because he only has the minimum level of toleration for everyone around him. That's why things never go quite his way. It's why Robert hated him. It's why Ned was the second in command in the war and the first choice for Hand over him. It's why his home lands all turned their back on him and went to Renly.

And he compensates for this how? By breaking the law in a much more profound way. [blackout]Fratricide and kinslaying is far more frowned upon in Westeros than realpolitik.[/blackout] If you like Ned or hated the Mad King, and even Jaime Lannister fell into the latter, than saying it is Stannis "by rights" is moot.

Then every time Ned executed a man, he was committing murder, depending on who you ask.

I will never take Robert's view on anyone. He lacks the honesty or perspective of men like Ned or Ser Barristan. Just look at his views on Lyanna and Rhaegar. Does anyone really think Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna?

Renly is committing treason. The King of Westeros has every right to take his head. He has been given the chance to repent. He has refused. What happens from this point on is his fault. He arrogant ass is so sure that his big army is going to protect him and slaughter his brother and his men.

 

[Victarion]

How does Cersei feel about Joffrey? I can't tell if she's uncomfortable around him or not...

 

[DarthSkywalker]

How does Cersei feel about Joffrey? I can't tell if she's uncomfortable around him or not...

She loves him and his siblings with all her being. That blinds her most of the time to the fact that he is the new Mad King.

 

[Thundercrack85]

While I know they're following the book, I don't get why they don't just kill Joffrey, lock Cersei in a tower, and put his nice, dumb little brother on the throne.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

While I know they're following the book, I don't get why they don't just kill Joffrey, lock Cersei in a tower, and put his nice, dumb little brother on the throne.

Who is the "they" in that sentence?

 

[Matt]

Then every time Ned executed a man, he was committing murder, depending on who you ask.

I will never take Robert's view on anyone. He lacks the honesty or perspective of men like Ned or Ser Barristan. Just look at his views on Lyanna and Rhaegar. Does anyone really think Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna?

Renly is committing treason. The King of Westeros has every right to take his head. He has been given the chance to repent. He has refused. What happens from this point on is his fault. He arrogant ass is so sure that his big army is going to protect him and slaughter his brother and his men.

I'm not exactly versed on the lore of Game of Thrones but by your logic, there is no rightful king of Westeros. After all, your argument seems to be that the will of the people does not matter, only tradition and who tradition says is the rightful king. Therefore Robert and Ned were committing treason when they overthrew Dany's father, even though the people wanted the Mad King overthrown. It matters not, because he was rightful king. So, the last real legitimate king of Westeros was Viserys. When he died the royal bloodline died. Therefore anyone, be it Renly, Stannis, or even Theon's father has just as much of a rightful claim as anyone else. Unless of course Jon Snow is really [blackout]Rhaegar's legitimate son, but that would be moot as he has given up any claim to nobility when taking the oath and there is not a king to pardon him.[/blackout]

 

[Thundercrack85]

Who is the "they" in that sentence?

Tyrion and Tywin. Or really, anyone sane on the Lannister side. For a puppet, Joffrey is a real nuisance.

 

[Matt]

Tyrion and Tywin. Or really, anyone sane on the Lannister side. For a puppet, Joffrey is a real nuisance.

Well Tyrion really doesn't have the power to pull off such a move, does he?

As for Tywin, why would he? It really doesn't fit his agenda. He seems to like the fact that his family is ruling the country. Hell, I'm surprised he didn't try to assassinate Robert and take over years ago.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well Tyrion really doesn't have the power to pull off such a move, does he?

As for Tywin, why would he? It really doesn't fit his agenda. He seems to like the fact that his family is ruling the country. Hell, I'm surprised he didn't try to assassinate Robert and take over years ago.

He could get two prostitutes into the princes' room, surely he could place an assassin. Given Joffrey's... combat "skills", it wouldn't even take a very good assassin.

I don't know, for some reason Tywin doesn't seem like the nice grandfather type. I could be very wrong though. Is he aware of Joffrey's real parentage?

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I'm not exactly versed on the lore of Game of Thrones but by your logic, there is no rightful king of Westeros. After all, your argument seems to be that the will of the people does not matter, only tradition and who tradition says is the rightful king. Therefore Robert and Ned were committing treason when they overthrew Dany's father, even though the people wanted the Mad King overthrown. It matters not, because he was rightful king. So, the last real legitimate king of Westeros was Viserys. When he died the royal bloodline died. Therefore anyone, be it Renly, Stannis, or even Theon's father has just as much of a rightful claim as anyone else. Unless of course Jon Snow is really [blackout]Rhaegar's legitimate son, but that would be moot as he has given up any claim to nobility when taking the oath and there is not a king to pardon him.[/blackout]

Once Aerys was overthrown, the Targaryens were exiles and lost all claims to any titles or land in Westeros to the Baratheons. Robert won it and it's rightfully Stannis' since Joffrey and his siblings are bastards.

Also, Balon Greyjoy doesn't want the Iron Throne, he wants to be an independent king, like Robb, and dominion of the North as well as the Iron Islands.

Tyrion and Tywin. Or really, anyone sane on the Lannister side. For a puppet, Joffrey is a real nuisance.

Neither will do it. Tyrion is loyal to his family and they all do Tywin's bidding anyway.

 

[Matt]

He could get two prostitutes into the princes' room, surely he could place an assassin. Given Joffrey's... combat "skills", it wouldn't even take a very good assassin.

I don't know, for some reason Tywin doesn't seem like the nice grandfather type. I could be very wrong though. Is he aware of Joffrey's real parentage?

I'm not really sure what Tywin's goal is, but I assume power. Once the war ends he will return to KL and effectively be king. Why kill Joffrey and cause more unrest when Joffrey is effectively his puppet?