Game of Thrones - HBO part 2 - Part 3

[Spidey-Bat]

So who is ready for our weekly fight?

Here is my problem with tonight's episode:

It was good...but it drags so much, wastes so much time.

LOL I cannot get this complaint at all. I looked at my clock and saw there was 15 min and I thought, "Damn, it's almost over!"

For example: Tyrion was awesome as always. But what was his plot? Him consolidating more power in in King's Landing. Gaining more influence, spies, allies and power. It's basically a repeat of last week's episode. Tyrion uses his cunning to gain more power, root out a spy, etc. Did we really need to see it yet again? Instead of showing two episodes where Tyrion does almost the exact same thing, show one episode where he does the same thing in fewer scenes, less words, etc.

The point is to show how corrupt King's Landing is. You basically see why Ned couldn't survive it. Both of these instances were different. Before, you learned Pycelle has been loyal to the Lannisters since Tywin was hand for Aerys years ago (very important [blackout]Pycelle persuaded Aerys to open the gates of King's Landing when Tywin arrived during Robert's Rebellion. However, Tywin sacked the city, Jaime killed Aerys, and Rhaegar's wife and children were murdered[/blackout]). Here, you see how Cersei has gotten Lancel wrapped around her finger and now Tyrion has done the same.

Same with the ending. From what I understand [blackout]the shadow creature that the witch gave birth to, assassinates Renly[/blackout] so show it! instead of spending the final 15 minutes with conversation building up to it and ending the episode on revealing a plot device, show the plot device used and move the plot forward. Go from point A to point B rather than one hour of running place between the two.

It wasn't 15 min and they showed the build up because there was characterization. You learned more about both men. Stannis repaid Davos' heroism during the siege of Storm's End by making him a lord and giving him land, but he doesn't believe it absolves him of his crimes as a smuggler so he cut off his fingertips for it. Davos is fiercely loyal to Stannis for all he has given him and his family and accepts the punishment for it.

Then just go to the scene. Show it tonight instead of stretching out an entire episode building up to it.

Spoiler

It's a major turning point in the book and series early on. It's important to see the scene itself and the fallout directly after in one episode because there is a lot of it.

Also, it's called a cliffhanger. Like the previous week with Jon getting caught and clubbed by Craster.

 

[Drizzle]

Great episode. I was hoping they would show [BLACKOUT]Renly's death[/BLACKOUT] at the end, but I guess they're saving that until next week.

I sense another epic Joffrey slapdown courtesy of Tyrion is imminent after what he put the ****es through. Speaking of Tyrion, I loved his monologue to Lancel.

Finally Dany gets to do something this season. At this point, it's "Show us the dragons. No? Okay, maybe next episode." Just based on what happens in the books, I'm not really going to care much about her story arc until next season.

I loved the last scene with Melisandre giving birth. I found it to be creepier than any of the whitewalker scenes.

And what, they couldn't show Ned's bones? Did they exhaust the budget already?

 

[Project862006]

anyone notice how much creepier this episode was than previous

from the birth
to the rat torture
to the ****e abuse

 

[Stringer]

Ugh I should not have highlighted any of the spoilers on this page.

 

[cyborg ninja 14]

Then just go to the scene. Show it tonight instead of stretching out an entire episode building up to it.

Nah, it's a good cliffhanger.

 

[smashmode]

Get ready for 7 more years of this kind of tv Matt

 

[rayc1971]

tyrion is a boss! how much more sadistic can joffrey get someone kick his ass please!

 

[chaseter]

Ohhh a demon baby. I thought Goffrey was going to make that one prostitute use the horned end on the other prostitute if you catch my drift.

 

[Kane52630]

....So apparently she gave birth to the smoke monster from Lost? lol

 

[chaseter]

First I was like: "TITTAYS!"

Then I was like: "WTF!?"

 

[DACrowe]

Quick thoughts on the episode.

That was a pretty great episode (beyond two small complaints I'll get to in a second). I really appreciated the building of Tyrion and Sansa's relationship, as well as the Imp putting down Joffrey yet again. I'm glad they toned that scene down given Sophie Turner is 16 (it's much worse in the book) and that they let Bronn shine. It's good Dany finally had something to do and you can really feel the story wheels turning. Every scene with Arya is great. I'm so glad they got the awfulness of Gregor Clegane and the Tickler in the show (I was afraid it'd be cut with the cutting of Arya's further adventures). Finally hearing her little "prayer" was great. Every time we cut to Harrenhal in all its grotesque horror, the more enthralling the show was. Also, having Littlefinger deliver Ned's bones to Cat and be the one to discuss Jaime with her (instead of some insignificant Lannister cousin) was a nice touch. In fact, pretty much all of the stuff in Renly's camp was great, especially his showdown with Stannis and Melissandre. It seems they're changing Robb's romantic storyline a lot, but I"m not against it....yet. It was so thinly developed in the book, I have an open mind to see where it goes.

Now my two gripes. First is the level of gratuity in Joffrey abusing the prostitutes scene. Yes, Joffrey is a little bastard and is played perfectly. However, given that we just had the scene with him torturing poor Sansa, did we need to see him go sado-maschistic on those girls? It doesn't advance the story and merely fills the T&A quota HBO requires of nearly all its shows. Though seeing Joffrey being into bondage did make sense ( ). My guess is after toning down the Sansa scene, HBO needed to make up for it in other ways.

The other was the cliffhanger. I loved the birth of the shadowbaby. It was appropriately creepy, WTF and evil. However, it is a terrible place to end the episode. Almost anyone can figure out after it ends what comes next with a week between episodes. Honestly, why not take the next three minutes to show what comes directly after that?! Three more minutes would have left audiences stunned instead of scratching their heads. Even if they wanted to save the [blackout]Brienne[/blackout] stuff for next week, they could have ended the episode mid-scene. Ending it there is just frustrating and inevitably makes it easier for audiences to realize what's going to happen when they aren't just shocked at what they're seeing in the immediacy following that.

My thoughts.

 

[chaseter]

I am sure that what happens next will be longer than 3 minutes. Then of course you have the immediate aftermath that needn't wait another week. Plus, I love cliff hangers. I am a masochist like Goffrey.

 

[rayc1971]

so everytime the witch has sex with stannis she makes shadowbabies from his seed? wtf!

 

[DACrowe]

Stannis and Renly's scene was horribly underwhelming compared to the book. Guess they needed to give more time to Joffrey abusing 2 naked women

Since they cut out my favorite line of Stannis', here it is:

Renly: "I've even taken Margaery as my wife. You'll be happy to know she came to me a maid [virgin]"
Stannis: "In your bed she's like to die that way."


Other than that, a great episode. Harrenhal was not what I pictured, much more ruined and disturbing with the prisoners. Seeing Tywin march in was pretty awesome. The beginning with Grey Wind was great, too.

You're just mad that Renly came out looking better in the show. It's okay. That's because he is.

Two bits from that scene I missed:

CATELYN: Listen to yourselves! If you were sons of mine, I would bang your heads together and lock you in a bedchamber until you remembered that you were brothers.
STANNIS: You presume too much, Lady Stark. I am the rightful king, and your son is no less a traitor than my brother here. His day will come as well.

and

Renly's hand slid inside his cloak. Stannis saw, and reached at once for the hilt of his sword, but before he could draw steel his brother produced...a peach. "Would like one, brother?" Renly asked, smiling. "From Higharden. You've never tasted anything so sweet, I promise you." He took a bite. Juice ran from the corner of his mouth.

"I did not come here to eat fruit." Stannis was fuming.

"A man should never refuse to taste a peach," Renly said as he tossed the stone away. "He may never get the chance again. Life is short, Stannis. Remember what the Starks say. Winter is coming." He wiped his mouth with the back of his hand.

"I did not come here to be threatened, either."

"Nor were you," Renly snapped back. "When I make threats, you'll know it. If truth be told, I've never liked you, Stannis. But you are my own blood, and I have no wish to slay you.

That last quote is just a great character moment for both that becomes very important for Stannis later on. I will agree that the show isn't capturing the indignation and wrath of Stannis. I always imagined him as being like Patrick Stewart performing MacBeth. All ego, ambition and wounded pride. On the show, he is just kind of a stiff.

 

[DACrowe]

So who is ready for our weekly fight?

Here is my problem with tonight's episode:

It was good...but it drags so much, wastes so much time. For example: Tyrion was awesome as always. But what was his plot? Him consolidating more power in in King's Landing. Gaining more influence, spies, allies and power. It's basically a repeat of last week's episode. Tyrion uses his cunning to gain more power, root out a spy, etc. Did we really need to see it yet again? Instead of showing two episodes where Tyrion does almost the exact same thing, show one episode where he does the same thing in fewer scenes, less words, etc.

Same with the ending. From what I understand [blackout]the shadow creature that the witch gave birth to, assassinates Renly[/blackout] so show it! instead of spending the final 15 minutes with conversation building up to it and ending the episode on revealing a plot device, show the plot device used and move the plot forward. Go from point A to point B rather than one hour of running place between the two.

I'm starting to think you're looking for reasons to complain about pacing. You've become so determined that this show is moving slowly, you are now watching episodes with the mindset to find something to complain about.

On your weekly complaints.

1) Tyrion running train is great because it shows him thoroughly building power. Last week showed him getting rid of an enemy, gaining an "ally" in Varys, selling Myrcella to Dorne and generally becoming the primary power broker in KL. This week he is now starting to put Cersei in a corner by turning even her lover into his informer. All of which will have a great payoff. To me, you're argument here could be like someone watching S2 of Boardwalk Empire and complaining that every week we only see Nucky make a small move to reclaim his power or avoid going to prison and groaning that we haven't seen him use these moves to take revenge on the Commodore, Eli and Jimmy. It's slow burning with a purpose. If you like BE, I really don't know how you can be complaining about the scenes in KL (well besides the gratuitous sex scenes).

2) I actually agree. ( ) I think showing the payoff of the shadowbaby this week would have been a great ending that would have left audiences gasping. Instead, it leaves them just dumbfounded. What comes next is a better cliffhanger and works better than an episode opener. However, the buildup to the birth of the shadowbaby was great. The whole Davos-Melissandre scene was superb. It may be a "plot device," but it would make Hitchcock weep to waste one without draining it of its appropriate creepy value. The show took advantage of it. I just think the episode could have been 5 minutes longer. Maybe if they cut down the length of the Joffrey S&M scene, it could have fit. Oh well.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

You're just mad that Renly came out looking better in the show. It's okay. That's because he is.

Renly is a king fit only for a fairy tale. He's arrogant, deluded, and ignorant of war. There was a reason the Lannisters feared Stannis more despite his small army. In a nutshell, Renly is a king of the summer but winter is coming.

Two bits from that scene I missed:

CATELYN: Listen to yourselves! If you were sons of mine, I would bang your heads together and lock you in a bedchamber until you remembered that you were brothers.
STANNIS: You presume too much, Lady Stark. I am the rightful king, and your son is no less a traitor than my brother here. His day will come as well.

That last quote is just a great character moment for both that becomes very important for Stannis later on. I will agree that the show isn't capturing the indignation and wrath of Stannis. I always imagined him as being like Patrick Stewart performing MacBeth. All ego, ambition and wounded pride. On the show, he is just kind of a stiff.

They dropped the ball cutting out those parts of their exchange.

 

[Marvolo]

Harrenhall was perfect! That place was creepy as **** and far surpassed what i had imagined! Another great episode!

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'm starting to think you're looking for reasons to complain about pacing. You've become so determined that this show is moving slowly, you are now watching episodes with the mindset to find something to complain about.

On your weekly complaints.

1) Tyrion running train is great because it shows him thoroughly building power. Last week showed him getting rid of an enemy, gaining an "ally" in Varys, selling Myrcella to Dorne and generally becoming the primary power broker in KL. This week he is now starting to put Cersei in a corner by turning even her lover into his informer. All of which will have a great payoff. To me, you're argument here could be like someone watching S2 of Boardwalk Empire and complaining that every week we only see Nucky make a small move to reclaim his power or avoid going to prison and groaning that we haven't seen him use these moves to take revenge on the Commodore, Eli and Jimmy. It's slow burning with a purpose. If you like BE, I really don't know how you can be complaining about the scenes in KL (well besides the gratuitous sex scenes).

2) I actually agree. ( ) I think showing the payoff of the shadowbaby this week would have been a great ending that would have left audiences gasping. Instead, it leaves them just dumbfounded. What comes next is a better cliffhanger and works better than an episode opener. However, the buildup to the birth of the shadowbaby was great. The whole Davos-Melissandre scene was superb. It may be a "plot device," but it would make Hitchcock weep to waste one without draining it of its appropriate creepy value. The show took advantage of it. I just think the episode could have been 5 minutes longer. Maybe if they cut down the length of the Joffrey S&M scene, it could have fit. Oh well.

The episodes are mapped out in such a way that cutting scenes does not push up and or back other things. The episode clocked in at around 50 minutes minus the credits. If they wanted that as the finale they could have had it. They must want to start the next episode with that scene.

As to the pacing, I think they have are finally getting it right. The first two episodes were wonky because they felt the need to show too many characters. The last two weeks the episodes have had far more focus and the show is back to its best for it.

By the way, Carice is the perfect Mel. Her two scenes tonight are up there with my favorites of the show.

 

[Sawyer]

[YT]y_fQGq2sy1A[/YT]
Awww Rickon.....

Now, granted, I've only just started on the first book, so I can't speak for them, but the poor kid seems like such an afterthought in the series. It's like, if one were to go down a list of Ned Stark's children, it'd be....

the King of the North
the Bastard
the prissy wannabe princess
the tomboy
the one who got pushed out of a window after witnessing the Kingslayer sticking it to his sister
.................
.................
.................
.................
... oh, yeah, and Rickon exists too, I guess.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I didn't care much for Renly, but that exchange with Stannis was pretty good. Few more scenes like that, and I'd buy him as a king.

The scene with Robb and the... nurse lady was strange though. She's going to mouth off to a king, a king who just won a big battle.

 

[Marvolo]

It definitely wasn't one of Robb's more kingly moments. If he wants to be king he needs to act like a king. Letting a nurse talk down to you isn't acting like a king. I mean its good to hear others opinions, but you have to command respect to be a king. He should have kindly but sternly put her in her place and moved on, especially considering his men could hear that conversation. His men don't need to see their leader and king being berated by a nurse. When she questioned his motives he could have said he was fighting for the freedom of the North, and walked away. It would have been better than what he said.

 

[DACrowe]

Renly is a king fit only for a fairy tale. He's arrogant, deluded, and ignorant of war. There was a reason the Lannisters feared Stannis more despite his small army. In a nutshell, Renly is a king of the summer but winter is coming.

Tyrion Lannister feared Renly coming up the Rose Road more until Stannis approached Storm's End instead of King's Landing (all condensed for obvious reasons on the show). Renly is a king who actually has ideas about serving the realm and improving Westros (even if it is ego stroking). Sure he is arrogant, but he is far better than Joffrey or Stannis for the Iron Throne. I know you love Stannis, but he is a bound up, brittle ego that is ready to break at all times. Sure, he is action at the end of ASOS is a great noble thing, but it's only after [blackout]he loses most of his forces on the Blackwater.[/blackout] Stannis only cares about getting what is his "by rights." It is as much about ego as with Renly, but he has no interest in the realm during ACOK and most of ASOS. It is all about him and he is too prickly and off-putting to rule. I don't think either Baratheon brother could actually hold the throne for very long.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It definitely wasn't one of Robb's more kingly moments. If he wants to be king he needs to act like a king. Letting a nurse talk down to you isn't acting like a king. I mean its good to hear others opinions, but you have to command respect to be a king. He should have kindly but sternly put her in her place and moved on, especially considering his men could hear that conversation. His men don't need to see their leader and king being berated by a nurse. When she questioned his motives he could have said he was fighting for the freedom of the North, and walked away. It would have been better than what he said.

He is his father's son. Ned and his boys don't treat the opposite sex like that. She was right and as hard as he tried, he had to accept it. If it had been a man, he would of probably asked for a duel.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Tyrion Lannister feared Renly coming up the Rose Road more until Stannis approached Storm's End instead of King's Landing (all condensed for obvious reasons on the show). Renly is a king who actually has ideas about serving the realm and improving Westros (even if it is ego stroking). Sure he is arrogant, but he is far better than Joffrey or Stannis for the Iron Throne. I know you love Stannis, but he is a bound up, brittle ego that is ready to break at all times. Sure, he is action at the end of ASOS is a great noble thing, but it's only after [blackout]he loses most of his forces on the Blackwater.[/blackout] Stannis only cares about getting what is his "by rights." It is as much about ego as with Renly, but he has no interest in the realm during ACOK and most of ASOS. It is all about him and he is too prickly and off-putting to rule. I don't think either Baratheon brother could actually hold the throne for very long.

Completely disagree with your description of Stannis. If Stannis was that, Davos would not be as loyal to him as he is. Stannis believes in the truth, justice and his duty. His problem is he is stern and cold, but his heart is in the right place. He is very much a less likable Ned.

He believes in what is right, and what is right is his behind on the Iron Throne. If it wasn't his right he wouldn't be fighting this war.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I did like how even though Renly insulted him, he only took offense to being called a ham.

This episode had a lot of seemingly random moments. A nurse berating a king, and then Tywin Lannister just showing up for no reason.

I also have to wonder about Miss Targaryen and the Dothraki, when exactly do they finally become part of the main storyline again? Seems like they're getting further and further away from the main plot.