Game of Thrones - HBO part 2 - Part 4

[DACrowe]

He faked their deaths, because he thought he'd look too incompetent if he let them get away. Instead, he looks like a vile monster. Which he kind of has become.

 

[DACrowe]

I know the season is not over yet but anyone else get the feeling that the 1st season was the better out of the two?

I still enjoy the show but i had high hopes for season 2 and thought it would really improve over season 1 as most shows do in their second season. I remember some very epic episodes by this point last year. This whole season seems to be mostly just setting things up, which is actually what i thought the 1st season was for.

Different strokes. I think most people tend to only remember episode 9 and 10 from S1. Ned dies, Drogo dies, and dragons are born. There will be some nice "big events" in S2's final episodes but nothing as major as Ned or dragons (though S3's ending will be even bigger than S1's).

However, the rest of S2--what we've seen thus far--is far more satisfying to me than S1. Yes, there is a bit of an overstuffed quality to S2 that will be helped in future seasons when they quit trying to adapt a whole book, and instead focus on certain stories they want to tell. But S2's stories are far more interesting to me and there's a lot more happening. All of S1 feels like a long drawn out build up to me towards Ned being executed and the inevitable war between the Starks and Lannisters that follows. Other than Dany's storyline, everyone else is just kind of standing around waiting as Ned gets closer to the truth until he discovers it in like episode 7 and then the fall out over the two episodes after that.

In S2, there is a lot less set-up. Instead we see the war that S1 built to over its first 9 episodes. We see the Baratheons fighting, we see Renly die, the Iron Islands invade the North, Theon betray Robb and take Winterfell, etc. INdividual returning characters, for the most part, seem to have more to do. Jon Snow in S1 just stood around the Wall sighing about being a virgin bastard. In S2 he is beyond the Wall, ranging, meeting Ygritte, captured by Wildlings and trying to meet their "king." In S1, Arya had a few great scenes with Syrio Forel, but otherwise chased cats and whined about Sansa until episode 10. In S2, Arya has been traveling under a constantly shifting identity, captured, nearly tortured by the Mountain, matched wits with Tywin Lannister and acquired a master assassin to do her bidding.

I mean it's all personal taste, but I think S2 has been better than S1 in every regard, save that I don't think the final episode is going to leave people breathless like it did last year.

 

[DACrowe]

I'm not even sure I understand her plan. Is she trying to trade him? If so, seems like a lot to trust Brienne with (takes a lot of competency). Because simply sending him to King's Landing, or to Tywin is an even dumber idea.

In the show, if Jaime stayed a prisoner much longer, Karstark out of vengeance would have murdered him while Robb was gone. A dead Jaime means for certain that Cersei/Joffrey will murder Sansa (and she believes Arya who isn't there). So, instead of letting that happens, she takes up her deal with Tyrion (as presented by Littlefinger), not Cersei or Jaime, to let Jaime go in exchange for her daughter(s). She also makes Jaime swear by the sword and on his own life that he will never raise hand against the Starks or Tullys (Cat's ancestral family) again. That will likely come up in future episodes.

In the book, Catelyn makes an agreement that Brienne will escort Jaime to Kings Landing where upon his honor he is bound to trade himself for Sansa and Arya. Stupid, you say? Why, yes it is.

Yes and no. At first glance it's stupid, but Cat's decision [blackout]saves a lot of lives in Riverrun. Jaime keeps his oath and ends the siege of Riverrun without firing a shot, executing Edmure Tully, or getting her entire family massacred. If it was just the Freys there, you know that would happen. Jaime also attempts to keep the promise by sending Brienne to find Sansa.[/blackout]

Robb made a much bigger mistake this week.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

He faked their deaths, because he thought he'd look too incompetent if he let them get away. Instead, he looks like a vile monster. Which he kind of has become.

He stills look incompetent since his men ( his Lieutenant at least ) knows the truth. Well so be it but I don't find that very smart at all.

 

[Marvolo]

In the show, if Jaime stayed a prisoner much longer, Karstark out of vengeance would have murdered him while Robb was gone. A dead Jaime means for certain that Cersei/Joffrey will murder Sansa (and she believes Arya who isn't there). So, instead of letting that happens, she takes up her deal with Tyrion (as presented by Littlefinger), not Cersei or Jaime, to let Jaime go in exchange for her daughter(s). She also makes Jaime swear by the sword and on his own life that he will never raise hand against the Starks or Tullys (Cat's ancestral family) again. That will likely come up in future episodes.



Yes and no. At first glance it's stupid, but Cat's decision [blackout]saves a lot of lives in Riverrun. Jaime keeps his oath and ends the siege of Riverrun without firing a shot, executing Edmure Tully, or getting her entire family massacred. If it was just the Freys there, you know that would happen. Jaime also attempts to keep the promise by sending Brienne to find Sansa.[/blackout]

Robb made a much bigger mistake this week.

I just didn't feel like going into all that, but I agree. Lol Rob made a wonderful mistake.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

He stills look incompetent since his men ( his Lieutenant at least ) knows the truth. Well so be it but I don't find that very smart at all.

Well, Theon isn't smart so him doing something stupid is expected.

 

[MarvelKnight]

This show is great.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Jaime talks big. But at least in the show, Ned held his own against him.

He reminds me of the stereotypical jerk jock. Just wait till he sprains his ankle, and becomes completely useless. Surprised it never occurred to them to cut his hands off.

 

[DACrowe]

Jaime talks big. But at least in the show, Ned held his own against him.

He reminds me of the stereotypical jerk jock. Just wait till he sprains his ankle, and becomes completely useless. Surprised it never occurred to them to cut his hands off.

That'd be barbaric. Something the Starks are not.

However, Jaime's sword hand is at the very least one of the five best in Westeros right now.

 

[Pink Ranger]

He reminds me of the stereotypical jerk jock. Just wait till he sprains his ankle, and becomes completely useless. Surprised it never occurred to them to cut his hands off.

Cause anything they do to Jaimie gets done to Sansa and (they think) Arya.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Cause anything they do to Jaimie gets done to Sansa and (they think) Arya.

Considering Joffrey was going to torture her, until Tyrion stepped in, that's not much of an assurance. But I guess that makes sense.

 

[Bruce Malone]

Different strokes. I think most people tend to only remember episode 9 and 10 from S1. Ned dies, Drogo dies, and dragons are born. There will be some nice "big events" in S2's final episodes but nothing as major as Ned or dragons (though S3's ending will be even bigger than S1's).

However, the rest of S2--what we've seen thus far--is far more satisfying to me than S1. Yes, there is a bit of an overstuffed quality to S2 that will be helped in future seasons when they quit trying to adapt a whole book, and instead focus on certain stories they want to tell. But S2's stories are far more interesting to me and there's a lot more happening. All of S1 feels like a long drawn out build up to me towards Ned being executed and the inevitable war between the Starks and Lannisters that follows. Other than Dany's storyline, everyone else is just kind of standing around waiting as Ned gets closer to the truth until he discovers it in like episode 7 and then the fall out over the two episodes after that.

In S2, there is a lot less set-up. Instead we see the war that S1 built to over its first 9 episodes. We see the Baratheons fighting, we see Renly die, the Iron Islands invade the North, Theon betray Robb and take Winterfell, etc. INdividual returning characters, for the most part, seem to have more to do. Jon Snow in S1 just stood around the Wall sighing about being a virgin bastard. In S2 he is beyond the Wall, ranging, meeting Ygritte, captured by Wildlings and trying to meet their "king." In S1, Arya had a few great scenes with Syrio Forel, but otherwise chased cats and whined about Sansa until episode 10. In S2, Arya has been traveling under a constantly shifting identity, captured, nearly tortured by the Mountain, matched wits with Tywin Lannister and acquired a master assassin to do her bidding.

I mean it's all personal taste, but I think S2 has been better than S1 in every regard, save that I don't think the final episode is going to leave people breathless like it did last year.

Perhaps it's all in perspective. I actually became a much bigger fan of season 1 when i re-watched the episodes again. However i would add episode 6 from season 1 as one of the great memorable episodes with the death of vysaries.
It may be the fact that you had read the books before season 1? As someone who didn't the build up to ned's actual death came as a surprise.

I think most would agree as well that dany's story arc over the 1st season was more enjoyable.

Yeah i agree that future season's will benefit when the whole 1 book 1 season philosophy dan and d.b had early on is replaced by adapting the story as a whole.

 

[DACrowe]

Viserys's death was great. I think the death of Renly had as much impact on the story, but the execution of the actual scene was disappointing (though I thought Yoren had a great death scene this season and the birth of the shadow baby was very memorable).

I hadn't read the books before S1. I just think the individual stories are more engrossing in S2. But I will agree that the narrative is simpler and easier-to-follow in the first season. I just like the story better in the second season, even if there hasn't been a Ned-scale scene. Different tastes.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I still think they killed Renly very prematurely. He could have been an interesting (and based on his banter with Stannis, fun) character.

His death was also treated like an afterthought. Nobody really cared, except Brienne. Stannis walked over his corpse, and took control of his army before they body was cold. The people at King's Landing just shrugged, Robb didn't even ask his mother about it (unless I misremember)... and that's it.

 

[ChickenScratch]

I still think they killed Renly very prematurely. He could have been an interesting (and based on his banter with Stannis, fun) character.

His death was also treated like an afterthought. Nobody really cared, except Brienne. Stannis walked over his corpse, and took control of his army before they body was cold. The people at King's Landing just shrugged, Robb didn't even ask his mother about it (unless I misremember)... and that's it.

The "they" who killed Renly you are refering to Is GRRm, and his death is much more interesting story wise I think. I think Brianne and Jamie as a duo could not come about without Renly's death.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I'm not saying keep him alive forever, just don't kill him so early. We barely knew the guy. Then just as he gets real characterization... shadow abomination, death, nobody cares.

 

[ChickenScratch]

Well sorry to tell you, but it's already been published and the story is what it is. We knew the guy lots, there's a whole book and a half (or season and a half if you prefer). His death serves to move the story forward, and he's dead so he's lost the game. That castle intrigue and machinations of everyone wanting power can be tough.

 

[childeroland]

There's too much story they'd have to change if they kept him alive. Even if they'd let him live for a little longer, there's too much other stuff they'd have to push back.

 

[Roose Bolton]

What I'm really excited about seeing, (and will be extremely pissed off if they cut out) is the stuff in the House of the Undying.

Spoiler

I'm reay curious who they cast as Rhaegar and Aerys

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Renly's death, like Ned's, has to happen when it does. There is no changing it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

What I'm really excited about seeing, (and will be extremely pissed off if they cut out) is the stuff in the House of the Undying.

Spoiler

I'm reay curious who they cast as Rhaegar and Aerys

I am 95% sure we are not going to get any character specific visions. [BLACKOUT]If Rhaegar and Aerys were cast, we'd know.[/BLACKOUT] If anything it will be shadowy figures that Dany will mention recognizing.

The only chance I think we will ever have of seeing [BLACKOUT]Rhaegar[/BLACKOUT] is if they make it to the point in the series when Jon learns the truth about his mother and father.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I am 95% sure we are not going to get any character specific visions. [BLACKOUT]If Rhaegar and Aerys were cast, we'd know.[/BLACKOUT] If anything it will be shadowy figures that Dany will mention recognizing.

The only chance I think we will ever have of seeing [BLACKOUT]Rhaegar[/BLACKOUT] is if they make it to the point in the series when Jon learns the truth about his mother and father.

How would they go about cutting out that scene with [BLACKOUT] Rhaegar talking about the prince who was promised and the song of Ice and Fire [/BLACKOUT]

Removing that basically undermines the entire series.

 

[Pink Ranger]

I'm not saying keep him alive forever, just don't kill him so early. We barely knew the guy. Then just as he gets real characterization... shadow abomination, death, nobody cares.

Speaking as an outsider (someone who's never read the books, and likely won't get around to it any time soon) I believe one of the strengths of this story is that it presents plotlines that are somewhat familiar, but then don't turn out the way you want them to. Ned is the one good man in the kingdoms, yet he is killed in a disgraceful manner. The power of story tells us that his sons should then wreak havoc on his killers, but then that doesn't really happen. The power of story tells us that Khal Drogo and his army should already be marching on Westeros, but that doesn't happen.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

How would they go about cutting out that scene with [BLACKOUT] Rhaegar talking about the prince who was promised and the song of Ice and Fire [/BLACKOUT]

Removing that basically undermines the entire series.

Of course it doesn't.

The information has already been made known by Mel and there are plenty of others who talk about the prophecies in their inaccurate ways. The three heads of the dragon can come up many ways.

Also I am sure Dany will hear things and will exposition afterwords.

 

[cyborg ninja 14]

The only chance I think we will ever have of seeing [BLACKOUT]Rhaegar[/BLACKOUT] is if they make it to the point in the series when Jon learns the truth about his mother and father.

The truth that may not be the truth?

Spoiler

I personally don't buy the R+J+J because it's too obvious and I doubt GRRM would just let that be the case since most of the fanbase believes its true. I bet he'll throw a curveball at us when and if he finally reveals his true parentage.