Game of Thrones - HBO part 2 - Part 4

[Infinity9999x]

Bingo.



The way I see it is, Snape is not a great guy. He was a petty and vile man who took pleasure in torturing a child for the sins of his father. That being said, he was on the heroic side of the war (the Order) and in that regard was a hero. He was a good man but not a nice man.

Yeah, that's more or less how I view him. I did really enjoy seeing how he changed just in the Prince's tale through his memories. He starts out as a man who doesn't care if Lily's son or Husband dies, and only wishes her to live. By the end of the memories, we see a Snape who is horrified at Dumbledore's plan to "raise Harry for slaughter." The one DD/Snape exchange I like best is.
"Come now Severus, how many men and women have you watched die?"
"Lately, only those I could not save."

He had some very heroic moments, and some absolutely vile ones, and that's why I love him.

 

[flickchick85]

But just because an ending is good doesn't justify the rest being bad. If a show is terrible for 8 seasons and then has a tremendous twist ending, does that really justify saying that the entire show is great? No matter how good it becomes in later parts of the story, I'm not going to read a bunch of **** to get there.

I agree with that sentiment, but I'm not talking about the ending, I'm talking about the meat of the whole story. You haven't even read (and the show hasn't even gotten through) the first 3rd of the story. That's more than the bulk of the story you're writing off just because you think so much of the what's included in beginning portion is unimportant, even though you have no way of knowing what's important yet.

For the record, I'm not talking about your complaints about his writing style, which like you said, is a totally valid opinion. If it doesn't hook you, it doesn't hook you. I'm just talking about the general story complaints I've seen you making here over the last few weeks.

 

[Matt]

One could argue that taking three books to get to the meat of the story is a flaw of the writer, eh?

 

[Spidey-Bat]

One could argue that taking three books to get to the meat of the story is a flaw of the writer, eh?

The 3rd book isn't the meat of the story, it's just the best book in the series that is the paragon of his writing. The major event happens about 1/3rd into it. It takes awhile to get there, but the last 2/3rds are just amazing, I couldn't put it down after that.

 

[DACrowe]

I've read enough to have a feel for his writing style. You can disagree with my opinion but that makes it no less valid or accurate than yours. So you and Crowe can write it off as someone who hasn't read the books, but that is fairly snobbish.

I'm not being snobbish. I forgot you read the first book. But you still criticiz the way he lays out the plot in the second book...a book you haven't read and are basing on the show.

Matt, I'm starting to get the feeling you like being contrarian in threads like this.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

One could argue that taking three books to get to the meat of the story is a flaw of the writer, eh?

There is plenty of meat in all of the first three books. The third book just has incredible payoff for stories that started in the first two books. A Game of Thrones is a great story unto itself and ACOK is also pretty darn good. It is the last two books that are borderline terrible.

 

[Matt]

I'm not being snobbish. I forgot you read the first book. But you still criticiz the way he lays out the plot in the second book...a book you haven't read and are basing on the show.

Matt, I'm starting to get the feeling you like being contrarian in threads like this.

I've actually read about half of the second book as well.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I've actually read about half of the second book as well.

So you haven't got to Blackwater?

 

[zanos]

I don't recall any lady from Atlantis in the books. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[mr. peasant]

I don't recall any lady from Atlantis in the books. Can anyone confirm this?

Officially, Talisa of Volantis is a new character for the show. However, it's likely that she is based on a different character from the books. As for whom, it should be obvious if you've read the books. If not, no spoilers for you. t:

 

[Marvolo]

Matt, are you a masochist? You seem to despise this series on one level or another, and yet every week you come back to it and fuss some more. At this point I have to say, you know what you are in for so you have no one to blame but yourself. I'm all for constructive criticism, but this is becoming repetitive. You made a judgment on the books by only reading the first and a bit of book two. It goes to reason that at this point in the show you should have an idea of whether this show is for you. Its like watching a chimp hit itself in the head with a stick. It knows it doesn't like it, but it just keeps doing it. Not calling you a chimp lol, but you get my drift. At what point is this going to be enough?

Why not give it up for a while and in a few seasons come back and give it another go from the beginning? Maybe by then the series will have changed some (not likely) and you will enjoy it more.

 

[Matt]

Matt, are you a masochist? You seem to despise this series on one level or another, and yet every week you come back to it and fuss some more. At this point I have to say, you know what you are in for so you have no one to blame but yourself. I'm all for constructive criticism, but this is becoming repetitive. You made a judgment on the books by only reading the first and a bit of book two. It goes to reason that at this point in the show you should have an idea of whether this show is for you. Its like watching a chimp hit itself in the head with a stick. It knows it doesn't like it, but it just keeps doing it. Not calling you a chimp lol, but you get my drift. At what point is this going to be enough?

Why not give it up for a while and in a few seasons come back and give it another go from the beginning? Maybe by then the series will have changed some (not likely) and you will enjoy it more.

Once I start something I have to finish it.

The only way that I will quit watching a show once it is set to record on my DVR is if there are very rare circumstances that make me so angry that I quit (with The Mentalist for example, the writers backing down and deus exing its tremendous twist from the end season three made me so angry that I've more or less quit watching) or if it is just so bad that I cannot stand the thought of watching another episode (this happened with Covert Affairs and Smallville).


Now with books, I will quit a bit easier because reading takes more of an investment of my time than watching a one hour show. Plus I get so few opportunities to leisure read that I need to be more selective with what I read. That is why I quit the books. TV is less of a time commitment. I can turn something on and do work while I watch. I'm good at multitasking like that.

But yeah, I am very selective about what I watch during pilot season because once I watch past the second episode, I do not quit. I go down with the ship, no matter how bad it gets. This show has done nothing so egregious that I will quit watching in disgust and it is well acted and visually impressive enough to keep me coming back to find out the fates of the few characters whom I like (Tyrion, Arya, Jon Snow and the Onion Knight). This (perhaps misplaced) loyalty and stubbornness is what kept me watching shows that had deteriorated and gotten progressively bad like Monk and Heroes to the end and is why I've yet to quit watching The Walking Dead.

So yeah, I hope that answers your question.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

So you have to torture everyone with your OCD?

 

[Matt]

I'm sorry, I thought that this was a discussion thread on a discussion board that welcomes all opinions. I was unaware that this thread was really titled, "Let's verbally ******e George Martin and the writers of Game of Thrones."

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I am not really a fan of GRRM as you can see from my post on him. But you seem to like to complain about pretty much every aspect of the show and the source material. So it seems it is just your OCD that keeps you watching and posting about it.

 

[Matt]

I've applauded the show on more than a few occasions. I just call it and discuss it like I see it. No harm in that. If people don't like my posts they can skip them. But this thread would be pretty damn boring with everyone saying, "OMGZ! THAT EPISODE WAS TEH AWESOMEZ!" each week.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

This thread doesn't feel like that though. I agree with a lot of complaints, but really enjoy the show overall.

The only problem I really have is with those that complain about aspects of the production. Considering what I have read and heard about it, I am amazed they have done what they have done.

 

[Marvolo]

Once I start something I have to finish it.

The only way that I will quit watching a show once it is set to record on my DVR is if there are very rare circumstances that make me so angry that I quit (with The Mentalist for example, the writers backing down and deus exing its tremendous twist from the end season three made me so angry that I've more or less quit watching) or if it is just so bad that I cannot stand the thought of watching another episode (this happened with Covert Affairs and Smallville).


Now with books, I will quit a bit easier because reading takes more of an investment of my time than watching a one hour show. Plus I get so few opportunities to leisure read that I need to be more selective with what I read. That is why I quit the books. TV is less of a time commitment. I can turn something on and do work while I watch. I'm good at multitasking like that.

But yeah, I am very selective about what I watch during pilot season because once I watch past the second episode, I do not quit. I go down with the ship, no matter how bad it gets. This show has done nothing so egregious that I will quit watching in disgust and it is well acted and visually impressive enough to keep me coming back to find out the fates of the few characters whom I like (Tyrion, Arya, Jon Snow and the Onion Knight). This (perhaps misplaced) loyalty and stubbornness is what kept me watching shows that had deteriorated and gotten progressively bad like Monk and Heroes to the end and is why I've yet to quit watching The Walking Dead.

So yeah, I hope that answers your question.

Damn, that is some serious compulsiveness, no offense. It certainly answers my question. Even if I would like to stick with a show if it doesn't do it for me I quit just because I don't have time to waste on shows I do not like. Right now I'm watching at least 20+ different series on a rotating schedule, and I re-watch my favorite series once a year so you can see where I have trouble fitting shows in. Lol, its a good thing you got DVR.

 

[Matt]

Damn, that is some serious compulsiveness, no offense. It certainly answers my question. Even if I would like to stick with a show if it doesn't do it for me I quit just because I don't have time to waste on shows I do not like. Right now I'm watching at least 20+ different series on a rotating schedule, and I re-watch my favorite series once a year so you can see where I have trouble fitting shows in. Lol, its a good thing you got DVR.

My DVR changed my life.

It really isn't as OCD as it sounds. I am just great at multitasking. If I weren't, I probably wouldn't watch half the shows that I do as my life would be far to hectic to fit them all in. Luckily for me, I can sit down, turn on a TV show and then proceed to balance my checking account, do the books for my business, read to my daughter, write a shopping list, make a budget, respond to emails, read the newspaper, see what is going on with the Hype, get some work done, exercise or do just about anything in between and still be able to give you a scene by scene description of the show that I had just watched once it is over. In fact, if I am only doing one thing at a time, it'll drive me crazy as I feel like I am wasting time.

 

[DACrowe]

I think Matt's point is that if a writer doesn't grab him by the first few books, he's not going to be interested in continuing to read. Which isn't a bad way to look at things. It's the writers job to keep you interested. And he might just not like the writing style. People have different tastes. It's not the end of the world.

Also, going back to DACrowe, I also felt Snape was good. But I wouldn't say he was "pretending" to be horrible. I genuinely think he enjoyed doing some of the more nasty things. That's the fun part of his character. And while there were a good amount of people who were always on the "Snape is good' train, there were also a fair amount of them convinced he was bad. There was tons of debate about it before the 7th book was released. So I would say JKR did a good enough job to get a pretty split opinion on him.

Those people who were convinced Snape was bad clearly have read very little fiction. He had "tragic hero" or "secret good guy" stamped on his head in the first book/film especially when he saves Harry at the stadium and it is later revealed he always cared for Harry's mother. I'm not saying you have to be thick to think Snape was evil....it just means Harry Potter is the only book series or set of films you've ever read or watched.

 

[Matt]

Those people who were convinced Snape was bad clearly have read very little fiction. He had "tragic hero" or "secret good guy" stamped on his head in the first book/film especially when he saves Harry at the stadium and it is later revealed he always cared for Harry's mother. I'm not saying you have to be thick to think Snape was evil....it just means Harry Potter is the only book series or set of films you've ever watched.

Actually, Rowling didn't give any indication that Snape gave two ****s about Lily until the chapter that also revealed he was a secret good guy. Prior to that, he seemed to hate her just as much as he did James. The movie tipped the hand a bit more obviously than the books.

Rowling wrote it in a manner where it could've really gone either way until the end. I mean, killing off the one, undeniably good character (a side from the main three) in the series is a hell of a red herring. But yeah, there were indications that either could have been possible.

As for the other evidence that supports Snape being good, it is all reasonably explained in the second chapter of HBP (which was more or less cut from the movie). The explanation that Snape gives Bellatrix makes it very possible that everything he has done to that point in the series could be reasonably seen actions that are as much to Voldemort's advantage as they are to Harry or Dumbledore's.

 

[Marvolo]

My DVR changed my life.

It really isn't as OCD as it sounds. I am just great at multitasking. If I weren't, I probably wouldn't watch half the shows that I do as my life would be far to hectic to fit them all in. Luckily for me, I can sit down, turn on a TV show and then proceed to balance my checking account, do the books for my business, read to my daughter, write a shopping list, make a budget, respond to emails, read the newspaper, see what is going on with the Hype, get some work done, exercise or do just about anything in between and still be able to give you a scene by scene description of the show that I had just watched once it is over. In fact, if I am only doing one thing at a time, it'll drive me crazy as I feel like I am wasting time.

Lol, that sounds like what I do. Used to I could set down and watch a movie or tv show and do only that. Now I feel the need to at least do one other thing while watching tv or a movie. Granted I'm older so I have more to get done, but even when I have nothing to do I still multi-task while watching tv.

 

[Matt]

Lol, that sounds like what I do. Used to I could set down and watch a movie or tv show and do only that. Now I feel the need to at least do one other thing while watching tv or a movie. Granted I'm older so I have more to get done, but even when I have nothing to do I still multi-task while watching tv.

Age does that to you, my friend. When we realize how little time we have, we try to fit as much into that time as we can, I guess.

 

[chaseter]

By the time we are old, we will have cyborg bodies.

 

[DACrowe]

Once I start something I have to finish it.

The only way that I will quit watching a show once it is set to record on my DVR is if there are very rare circumstances that make me so angry that I quit (with The Mentalist for example, the writers backing down and deus exing its tremendous twist from the end season three made me so angry that I've more or less quit watching) or if it is just so bad that I cannot stand the thought of watching another episode (this happened with Covert Affairs and Smallville).


Now with books, I will quit a bit easier because reading takes more of an investment of my time than watching a one hour show. Plus I get so few opportunities to leisure read that I need to be more selective with what I read. That is why I quit the books. TV is less of a time commitment. I can turn something on and do work while I watch. I'm good at multitasking like that.

But yeah, I am very selective about what I watch during pilot season because once I watch past the second episode, I do not quit. I go down with the ship, no matter how bad it gets. This show has done nothing so egregious that I will quit watching in disgust and it is well acted and visually impressive enough to keep me coming back to find out the fates of the few characters whom I like (Tyrion, Arya, Jon Snow and the Onion Knight). This (perhaps misplaced) loyalty and stubbornness is what kept me watching shows that had deteriorated and gotten progressively bad like Monk and Heroes to the end and is why I've yet to quit watching The Walking Dead.

So yeah, I hope that answers your question.

I seem to recall you quitting Glee mid-season last year. Not that I blame you, because Season 3 was even worse.

I don't think you should quit GOT. Especially this year when there are only two episodes left. However, you may in the future just want to wait until the end of the season and watch the whole season in three or four sittings in as many days. I do think the show flows better when you can watch it over the course of a week instead of 2+ months (much like reading a book and certain other shows like The Tudors or Boardwalk Empire).

If you do do that though, avoid spoilers on the final two episodes like the plague. You should not spoil those for yourself until you watch them.