Game of Thrones - HBO part 2 - Part 4

[mr. peasant]

When we watched it last night, my friend, who has never read the books and only watched S1 once, got immediately that Sandor was scared of the fire. A guy with half his face burned off by his older brother tended to stick in her mind.

I thought the scene with Sandor and Sansa was fine--though I prefer its more menacing version in the book complete with the song.

I do agree with the last point you made. But I think the show's writers just decided to include that detail from the book as an easter egg. It's too hard to explain as it's unrelated to the plot and pace of the story, so book fans can catch it, but it's not a big deal that non-readers missed it. But I see your point in that regard.

As I mentioned to another poster, some of my friends and Otakuassemble (an unspoiled reviewer who shares his in-depth analysis/thoughts on each episode) completely missed them. Likewise, I feel the Sandor-Sansa hadn't been sufficiently established to flow well into this scene. Before now, all we saw was that Tyrion and Sandor treated her better than others (namely: did not actively abuse her). Sandor wanting to take Sansa with him strikes of a stronger relationship than that.

You cannot put it on the writers and directors if everyone doesn't get everything. This thread has shown you plenty of people without foreknowledge that understood it without any trouble. What makes those that missed it more correct?

And its out of left field. We have the story, which they dedicated a nice bit of time to, and we have the several ques in this very episode.

And of course it wasn't the fighting. We know it doesn't effect him.

I agree, they can't be responsible to make everyone understand and those who didn't aren't necessarily correct. Just that when there are, including an analytical reviewer, it does raise the question. And in this case, there is a case to be made for there being a lack of foreshadowing.

I'm curious to know in which scenes these cues take place; since I too missed those. If it was only when he had his breakdown and nothing before that, it comes across a lot more like an ass-pull, with the show giving Sandor Weaknesses as the Plot Demands, since there have been plenty of scenes (including this very episode: see the scene where Joffrey makes Sansa kiss his sword) where Sandor is in the vicinity of large, open fires and he seemed fine with them.

I love how you bring fighting his brother and protecting the king, like they are some random acts of kindness. The man he hates more then any other and his employer.

He could have waited until after Gregor killed Loras - fewer obstacles, more justified to fight, etc - or not even bother to wait for a reason to attack Gregor. All this shows that he has a sense of decorum about him over what is and isn't appropriate behaviour. It might be different from yours and mine, or others from Westeros, but it's there.

That heavy cloak, was apart of the armor!!!!

Lots of people wear cloaks (as can be seen in your pic). Meanwhile, the one and way Loras wore completely obscured his armour:

 

[Pink Ranger]

I'd just like to say that since I've been a member of the Hype, I've always been able to check out every thread on the forum from work without incident.

Until today.

For the first time in history, a Hype thread has been filtered out via my office's internet policing program, for sexual content (presumably language) no less. And it is this thread!

Great work, guys! Tyrion would be proud.

 

[DACrowe]

Big spoilers for those avoiding.

Spoiler

I think that we are going to see the Red Wedding in the second to last episode next season, with Joffrey's poisoning to end the season. Which I think means that we aren't going to see Stannis come to the realm's aid before the second half of season 4.

That's how I think it should play out too. If Season 3 just ends on [blackout]the Red Wedding[/blackout], people may leave the show in droves.

 

[Thundercrack85]

So, what will this season end on now? Sort of just had the climax.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

set up for the next season most likely. that's how these hbo shows go generally. same with true blood.

 

[DACrowe]

As I mentioned to another poster, some of my friends and Otakuassemble (an unspoiled reviewer who shares his in-depth analysis/thoughts on each episode) completely missed them. Likewise, I feel the Sandor-Sansa hadn't been sufficiently established to flow well into this scene. Before now, all we saw was that Tyrion and Sandor treated her better than others (namely: did not actively abuse her). Sandor wanting to take Sansa with him strikes of a stronger relationship than that.

Well they never had a "strong" relationship. They had more scenes in the book, but it was mostly him taking a creepy, leering interest in a young girl going through puberty. He calls her "little bird" a lot and turns a blind eye that she's going to the godswood every night (something I bet they're saving for Season 3), but other than giving her his cloak and advising her after a Joffrey beating in AGOT (both of which are on the show), he never seems like a positive figure to her. In the show, they made him more heroic having him save her from being gang raped in the riot (in the book it was Lollys, who had been raped multiple times by the time Sandor saved her). That's why him coming to her room drunk is more menacing than anything else. Sansa, nor the reader, never knows what his intention is and there's a chance if her song hadn't been so sweet and innocent, he may have raped her.

In the show, they tone that down to him genuinely asking to take her with him. In the show, he seems to simply feel sorry for her and wants to protect her. He has fewer scenes with her, but they're far less ambiguous than they were in the book which implied something far more sinister. At least, that's how I read it.

 

[Poeman]

So, what will this season end on now? Sort of just had the climax.

Bro, get ready...All signs point to one cliffhanger of a mothereffin ending.



And who are you, the proud lord said, that I must bow so low? Only a cat of a different coat, that's all the truth I know. In a coat of gold or a coat of red, a lion still has claws, And mine are long and sharp, my lord, as long and sharp as yours. And so he spoke, and so he spoke, that lord of Castamere, But now the rains weep o'er his hall, with no one there to hear. Yes now the rains weep o'er his hall, and not a soul to hear.

 

[DACrowe]

I'd just like to say that since I've been a member of the Hype, I've always been able to check out every thread on the forum from work without incident.

Until today.

For the first time in history, a Hype thread has been filtered out via my office's internet policing program, for sexual content (presumably language) no less. And it is this thread!

Great work, guys! Tyrion would be proud.

Thanks.

Cheers, guys! Raise your glasses to the god of **** and wine!

 

[Poeman]

I'd just like to say that since I've been a member of the Hype, I've always been able to check out every thread on the forum from work without incident.

Until today.

For the first time in history, a Hype thread has been filtered out via my office's internet policing program, for sexual content (presumably language) no less. And it is this thread!

Great work, guys! Tyrion would be proud.

Impin' ain't easy.

/thread.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Thanks.

Cheers, guys! Raise your glasses to the god of **** and wine!

Yeah ... I'm guessing it's stuff like this that tripped the censors.

I think we all know who's the troublemaker now!

 

[DACrowe]

So, what will this season end on now? Sort of just had the climax.

Jon, Theon and especially Dany all should have their own climaxes coming up (at least they do in the book). Also, I hope they do more with Arya as they kind of skimmed over her literary climax in ACOK (her escape in Harrenhal involves her and Jaqen together single-handidly overthrowing the Lannisters and killing 9 or 10 people together).

But yes, the final scene will be a major climax and no character's story will be over....unless some of them aren't coming back.

It should be interesting. I feel like the last episode should be at least 90 minutes, so it'll be interesting to see if they can squeeze it into 70 minutes for the finale.

 

[RockSP]

Jon, Theon and especially Dany all should have their own climaxes coming up

...too easy.

 

[DACrowe]

...too easy.

More problems for Pink Ranger, I suppose.

 

[Drizzle]

That's how I think it should play out too. If Season 3 just ends on [blackout]the Red Wedding[/blackout], people may leave the show in droves.

They wouldn't leave the show in droves. They'd be shocked as all hell, as those who read the book were, but I think they would still stay. The only character death that would make people leave the show is [BLACKOUT]Tyrion, but I'm pretty sure that if GRRM plans to kill him, it wouldn't be until the end of the last book. Much as I would hate to see that happen.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[mr. peasant]

Well they never had a "strong" relationship. They had more scenes in the book, but it was mostly him taking a creepy, leering interest in a young girl going through puberty. He calls her "little bird" a lot and turns a blind eye that she's going to the godswood every night (something I bet they're saving for Season 3), but other than giving her his cloak and advising her after a Joffrey beating in AGOT (both of which are on the show), he never seems like a positive figure to her. In the show, they made him more heroic having him save her from being gang raped in the riot (in the book it was Lollys, who had been raped multiple times by the time Sandor saved her). That's why him coming to her room drunk is more menacing than anything else. Sansa, nor the reader, never knows what his intention is and there's a chance if her song hadn't been so sweet and innocent, he may have raped her.

In the show, they tone that down to him genuinely asking to take her with him. In the show, he seems to simply feel sorry for her and wants to protect her. He has fewer scenes with her, but they're far less ambiguous than they were in the book which implied something far more sinister. At least, that's how I read it.

If I remember right, Sandor did rescue Sansa during the riots. That said, I'd say that's a fair assessment of Sandor - especially within the books - in isolation. However, one must take it in context of everything else in the show. For instance, Cersei also refers to Sansa as 'little dove' making this use of 'little bird' by Sandor less unique; giving it potentially a disparaging tone.

Also, I do not count the events in the books as canon or evidence when judging the show (unless evaluating whether the show succeeded in replicating the relevant scene from the book) since the show must stand on its own merits. The few scenes Sandor is in in the show don't provide much insight into the character - certainly not any fixation towards Sansa - and instead simply show him as a brute who is not needlessly cruel. Hence, my criticism that the scene was delivered with insufficient build-up for its intensity. Think about it... Sandor is overcome by fear, flees the battlefield and he (immediately?) thinks of going to Sansa to offer taking her with him?!

 

[Poeman]

They wouldn't leave the show in droves. They'd be shocked as all hell, as those who read the book were, but I think they would still stay. The only character death that would make people leave the show is [BLACKOUT]Tyrion, but I'm pretty sure that if GRRM plans to kill him, it wouldn't be until the end of the last book. Much as I would hate to see that happen.[/BLACKOUT]

Well if [blackout] RW is near the end of season 3, expect it to be episode 9 and Joffrey's death will be the season finale[/blackout]

 

[rayc1971]

Well if [blackout] RW is near the end of season 3, expect it to be episode 9 and Joffrey's death will be the season finale[/blackout]

thats how it will play out for eppy 9 and 10 in season3.

 

[childeroland]

A question: chronologically, do [BLACKOUT]the three blasts [/BLACKOUT] at the Fist of the First Men take place before or after [BLACKOUT]the Red Wedding[/BLACKOUT]? I'm still a little shaky on book 3's timeline.

 

[Kane52630]

Just got done watching the Battle of Blackwater, pretty epic. I must say the last few minutes had me cringing.

 

[rayc1971]

blackwater really makes me want to see a prequel movie.i want to see robert anf ned when they were younger and took down the mad king.stannis is a bad ass imagine a young robert with his war hammer.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

A question: chronologically, do [BLACKOUT]the three blasts [/BLACKOUT] at the Fist of the First Men take place before or after [BLACKOUT]the Red Wedding[/BLACKOUT]? I'm still a little shaky on book 3's timeline.

[blackout]The three blasts take place before, it is the prologue of A Storm of Swords. The Red Wedding occurs about 1/3rd into the book.[/blackout]

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That's how I think it should play out too. If Season 3 just ends on [blackout]the Red Wedding[/blackout], people may leave the show in droves.

I agree, especially considering some of the reaction I heard last night. Plenty of my friends and family loved the episode, but man were they angry that the Lannisters somehow figured out a way to win again.

A question: chronologically, do [BLACKOUT]the three blasts [/BLACKOUT] at the Fist of the First Men take place before or after [BLACKOUT]the Red Wedding[/BLACKOUT]? I'm still a little shaky on book 3's timeline.

Well before. It is the first thing that happens in ASOS.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

blackwater really makes me want to see a prequel movie.i want to see robert anf ned when they were younger and took down the mad king.stannis is a bad ass imagine a young robert with his war hammer.

Rhaegar > That brute Robert.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I would KILL for a 1 season prequel series. But I know that will never happen.

 

[childeroland]

Well before. It is the first thing that happens in ASOS.

Thanks.