Game of Thrones - HBO part 2 - Part 7

[Sawyer]

Jaime's a complicated fellow. On the surface in season one and in book one you couldn't help but hate the smug bastard, but they way GRRM deconstructed him and bared his soul to the reader over the course of the books changed everything. The show has done a good job doing the same. He is like an onion, or a cake if you prefer. Layers and layers and surprising you when you least expect it. Easily one of my favorite literary characters.

Jaime Lannister: The One True Onion Knight

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Awesome, awesome episode, I was expecting a quieter affair after the amazingly action packed episode of last week but every moment in this episode was superb.

Jon Snow proving himself, The Hound being let off by the god of light but not Arya, Cersei having the smile wiped off her face, along with Tyrion actually showing sympathy for Sansa again. Robb making a difficult decision but coming out with new fighting spirit at the end of it. Stannis' daughter with the Onion Knight.

And the best of all, Jamie's confession to Brienne in the bath, amazing acting and just and just an amazing scene which really made me root for Jamie in a way I never thought possible after hating him in season 1.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I was pleasantly surprised that The Hound won the trial by combat. I thought for sure he was going down in this episode.

 

[Sawyer]

I'm thinking about changing my avvy up with something GOT. I'm thinking either Varys or Tywin, I'm not sure...

 

[Ramsay Snow]

Tywin when saying "You're my daughter!"

Anyway, I'm definitely not changing my avvy.

 

[Sawyer]

I love all of Tywin's stuff, but I do really find myself being drawn to a few of the examples of Varys throwing shade at Littlefinger.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I loved Blackfish decking Karstark across the face when he was backtalking.

Me, too. Blackfish is awesome. He isn't a POV character in the books, but I hope he becomes one in the show like they have with Stannis.

 

[Ramsay Snow]

I love all of Tywin's stuff, but I do really find myself being drawn to a few of the examples of Varys throwing shade at Littlefinger.

what do you mean by "shade"?

 

[Thundercrack85]

I do wish they had shown the Riverland lords pledging fealty to Robb. Sort of feels like I missed an episode.

 

[Sawyer]

what do you mean by "shade"?

A certain brand of attitude that I believe most drag queens excel at. Which is honestly pretty appropriate for Varys.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I'm also wondering what the hell is going on with the Stormlands. In the books that was much clearer. Stannis absorbed his brothers' troops, but lost the battle. Are they still under his rule? Have they gone back to Joffrey?

No one's really mentioned it, far as I remember.

 

[Marvolo]

If I remember correctly, in the book Stannis stuff happens through Davos perspective and Davos isn't with him that much so we don't hear much of what is going on or what he is planning. Then out of nowhere towards the end some **** happens and Stannis rides in out of nowhere and it all becomes clear. The show seems to be following that approach.

 

[Ramsay Snow]

A certain brand of attitude that I believe most drag queens excel at. Which is honestly pretty appropriate for Varys.

Ah I see

I'm also wondering what the hell is going on with the Stormlands. In the books that was much clearer. Stannis absorbed his brothers' troops, but lost the battle. Are they still under his rule? Have they gone back to Joffrey?

No one's really mentioned it, far as I remember.

I assumed they were still with him since he won them from Renly. But not too sure.

I do wish they had shown the Riverland lords pledging fealty to Robb. Sort of feels like I missed an episode.

What do you mean? Do you mean the Tullys?

 

[conan69]

At least Jamie understands the hypocrisy of it all.

Remember his dialogue about "so many vows", theyre bound to clash and contradict with one another.

He really is a great character.

 

[DawnWarrior]

So Jaime is currently being held by Roose Bolton. Meanwhile Theon is currently being held by Bolton's bastard Ramsay. Both of are valuable hostages that Robb wants back under his custody, and the Bolton's are technically loyal to Robb. So why aren't they handing them over? Are the Bolton's just hanging onto them for the lulz?

 

[Spidey-Bat]

The Bolton's sigil is a flayed man. That should give you a clue about their character.

 

[Anubis]

Or biding their time. Waiting to see who comes out on top and having a nice bargaining chip should s**t get hairy.

 

[DACrowe]

Jaime talking about Ned judging Jaime for killing the Mad King without even caring to hear what happened is the reason I hate Ned so much. His holier than thou honor or death mentality was the match that lit the powderkeg. He repeatedly did the honorable thing and it repeatedly ****ed **** up. Killing the Night's Watch deserter before getting to the bottom of what happened beyond the wall, telling Cersie that he knew about the incest, not fleeing the capital with Renly and regrouping etc; all honorable but completely stupid decisions.

Jaime did the right thing by killing the Mad King whereas Ned would have upheld his oath and honor and let the whole of King's Landing burn.

I have to disagree to a point. I think it was a combination of matches lighting the keg. In no small way was Jaime not part of that considering he created the problem by a) ****ing his sister and b) fathering her children, thereby committing treason against the king which inevitably would set his family on a crash course with someone, be it Baratheon, Stark or even Arryn (and as it turned out, it was all of the above).

He also pushed Bran out the window. Yes, he did it to save Cersei and their children's lives (as well as his own), but it was truly the match to the powder keg.

I think Jaime is an infinitely complex figure. One who I really grew to sympathize with and understand while reading ASOS and AFFC. He has most of the best scenes in the latter and, as you know, we are only getting the first glimpse of his depth in the last few weeks.

However, I think too many readers mistake his level of depth or interesting fascination with righteousness or aggrievement. The truth is that characters like Jaime are much more interesting, as we go along, than Ned or Cat. So, their mistakes are often condemned far more harshly. While Jaime's are often glossed over because he is so interesting. Lest we forget, Ned had his son crippled by Jaime and his best friend murdered by Cersei and Lancel. Nor is Jaime beyond reproach in vanity and ego, such as his very next line "BY WHAT RIGHT DOES THE WOLF HAVE TO JUDGE THE LION!"

Just a thought.

 

[Marvolo]

I have to disagree to a point. I think it was a combination of matches lighting the keg. In no small way was Jaime not part of that considering he created the problem by a) ****ing his sister and b) fathering her children, thereby committing treason against the king which inevitably would set his family on a crash course with someone, be it Baratheon, Stark or even Arryn (and as it turned out, it was all of the above).

He also pushed Bran out the window. Yes, he did it to save Cersei and their children's lives (as well as his own), but it was truly the match to the powder keg.

I think Jaime is an infinitely complex figure. One who I really grew to sympathize with and understand while reading ASOS and AFFC. He has most of the best scenes in the latter and, as you know, we are only getting the first glimpse of his depth in the last few weeks.

However, I think too many readers mistake his level of depth or interesting fascination with righteousness or aggrievement. The truth is that characters like Jaime are much more interesting, as we go along, than Ned or Cat. So, their mistakes are often condemned far more harshly. While Jaime's are often glossed over because he is so interesting. Lest we forget, Ned had his son crippled by Jaime and his best friend murdered by Cersei and Lancel. Nor is Jaime beyond reproach in vanity and ego, such as his very next line "BY WHAT RIGHT DOES THE WOLF HAVE TO JUDGE THE LION!"

Just a thought.

When I say Ned was the match I mean it this way, all the stuff you mentioned Jamie and Cersie doing was the powder being heaped on. It didn't have to blow. It could have been cleaned up. Instead Ned came in with his honor and blew all that **** up. Ned could have not told Cersie he knew her secret and went straight to Robert or just not told Cersie at all and taken his time to figure out the best course of action and avoided the treason nonsense and his execution that started the war. Instead he told Cersie because it was "honorable" thing to do which gave her time to scheme a solution. Then he refused to leave with Renly. Then he trusted Peter and the rest is history. Everything he shouldn't have done he did. The man was a fool and all that stuff he did was a match to the powder Cersie and Jaime had been laying down. Instead of using a shovel to clear the powder he took his torch of honor and lit it right up. If he had been smart and played the game like everyone urged him to do he would have had Cersei out on her ass and Robert would have still been King.

 

[Sawyer]

It's the Game of Thrones... some are bound to be better at it than others.

At least Ned wasn't as bad at the game as.......... hold on, I'm thinking...........

 

[DawnWarrior]

It's the Game of Thrones... some are bound to be better at it than others.

At least Ned wasn't as bad at the game as.......... hold on, I'm thinking...........

Theon. He was better than Theon. Right?

 

[Sawyer]

Probably all the Iron Islanders for that matter. As Tyrion said, that was a stupid rebellion.

 

[Siby]

I think Ned is worse than Theon at playing the game. Ned was there from the beginning with Robert's rebellion and saw everything. He knew how things worked and he still screwed it up.

The Starks are your hicks at the country club.

 

[BatmanBeyond]

Ned found Jaime sitting on the Iron Throne with Aerys corpse at his feet. How did Jaime think he would react to that? Besides, what stopped Jaime from telling people about it afterwards? He has only himself to blame for that.

Ned's foolishness got him arrested but he gave in, confessed his crimes, and was going to take the black as the Lannisters wanted. Instead, Joffrey takes his head and provokes a war with the North on top of the Stannis and Renly claiming the throne.

This.

His 'By what right does the wolf judge the lion?' line was kind of silly...I mean, I don't know, maybe it's because you were acting like an arrogant **** throughout season 1, with all that holier than thou ********.

But I do like where they're going with the character and that they're making us empathise with him by offering his perspective on the things that've made him infamous as the Kingslayer.

Also, add me to the list of people who consider Tywin a ****ing boss.

Me, too. Blackfish is awesome. He isn't a POV character in the books, but I hope he becomes one in the show like they have with Stannis.

This too. t:

 

[Ramsay Snow]

Yeah, Ned screwed up like a boss But he didn't seem to want to King's Landing and only did it for his friend. He knew how screwed up it was and he was just too honour-bound. Playing the game just seems to go against his nature and the court intrigues just owned him. But if he didn't go to King's Landing, the story wouldn't have become this interesting haha.