Game of Thrones - HBO part 2 - Part 8

[nite-owl]

 

[TheFuture]

I actually like that they are senseless. Characters make mistakes and they pay for them dearly regardless of if they are supposed to be the 'good guys'.

I also like like that the deaths have repercussions. Robert, Ned, Robb, ect their deaths have caused effects felt throughout the GoT universe.

It's not that I don't like it, I like that deaths in this show are real in a way. A reality of life is that not everyone will die in a blaze of glory, and not everyone gets what they deserve (Ned) or the closure/happiness that they need (Robb failing to avenge his father and continue the Stark line with Talisa). It's genius in a way because it makes the loss all the more devastating, and I'm pretty sure Martin just recently alluded to that in an interview.

I mean, I can think of countless situations in TV and movies where tragedy struck, but the blow was softened to a certain extent because they did something for the greater good. There's no such consolation with GoT, and again, it's a testament to the genius of Martin because no show or movie has ever had me as depressed as this. The funniest thing about it all is that I wouldn't have even described Robb, Catelyn or Talisa as being anywhere near my favourite characters.

 

[Kane52630]

 

[Mjölnir]

Richard Griffiths died a couple months ago.

I hope we see the Red Viper

The Red Viper is being cast for next season so it's a lock.

 

[Silvermoon]

Wondered how long before someone made a gif out of that. I love how she crosses her eyes during "so dead" *lol*

 

[Mr.?]

Hilarious

 

[Hyde]

I started watching this show a couple of weeks ago, and I'm FINALLY caught up with the rest of you. All I can say is... ****.

Unfortunately I had

Spoiler

Robb Stark's death

spoiled for me but I didn't know about the others. This is such an incredible show.

Screw you Walking Dead

 

[The Navigator]

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I think part of the problem with people getting worked up about this series is that they view it as a traditional fantasy series, when it is really more of a gangster series set in a fantasy setting. It is more Boardwalk Empire than Lord of the Rings.

Of course, real history is filled with this sort of thing as well.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

I like it because despite all its fantasy elements it's soberingly realistic in the sense the good guys don't always win, in fact they mostly lose. And when they lose it's not some grand, cinematic sacrifice with poignant last words, but stupid, senseless deaths that could have been avoided with some common sense. And the Lannisters aren't strictly evil and the Starks aren't strictly good. Let's remember how this show started; with Ned Stark beheading some poor guy for deserting his regiment after he saw a white walker. How would you have viewed Ned Stark if you were that guy's wife or mom?

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

I think part of the problem with people getting worked up about this series is that they view it as a traditional fantasy series, when it is really more of a gangster series set in a fantasy setting. It is more Boardwalk Empire than Lord of the Rings.

Of course, real history is filled with this sort of thing as well.

Indeed. Google "black dinner."

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

What the hell....? Did she do a reaction video or something? Where is this from?

 

[roach]

I like it because despite all its fantasy elements it's soberingly realistic in the sense the good guys don't always win, in fact they mostly lose. And when they lose it's not some grand, cinematic sacrifice with poignant last words, but stupid, senseless deaths that could have been avoided with some common sense. And the Lannisters aren't strictly evil and the Starks aren't strictly good. Let's remember how this show started; with Ned Stark beheading some poor guy for deserting his regiment after he saw a white walker. How would you have viewed Ned Stark if you were that guy's wife or mom?

If the guy was on the wall then his wife and mom didn't matter or were dead.

 

[Silvermoon]

What the hell....? Did she do a reaction video or something? Where is this from?

https://***********/Maisie_Williams/status/341687811667267584

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

If the guy was on the wall then his wife and mom didn't matter or were dead.

Okay, but my point is that morality is definitely not as black and white as some of you perceive it. The Starks have done some pretty crappy things as well.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Indeed. Google "black dinner."

Yep.

Just take a look at the list of Scottish monarchs and see their fates.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Also a lot of mafia hits (both real and fictional) have happened over a dinner table.

 

[Kane52630]

...that's not what I got when I google searched "black dinner."

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Yes, I said he would be both. My comment about not mentioning it was referring to the books, as the northerners never actually use the title. The Riverlands lord is always actively called Lord Paramount though.

I think lord paramount is the generic title, the Riverlands just use it. I was looking at others, I noticed that the Tyrells are High Marshal of the Reach. Either way, I think we're in agreement.

It was very late when I posted that so I meant Lord Reaper of Pyke rather than "King of..." but no, the Greyjoys aren't Lord Paramounts. That was lost when they lost the Riverlands. They are still seen as a great house but there are more of those than there are Lord Paramounts. There's only six of the latter, which at the start of the story was Stark, Tully, Arryn, Lannister, Baratheon and Tyrell. As said, Greyjoy and Martell have other names for their rule. I don't know if anyone else acknowledge Greyjoy's title but Prince of Dorne is certainly official everywhere.

The Greyjoys are a great house on par with the rest, they just have a very distinct culture and everyone hates them.

That's true that it's a difference but really I don't think it would have changed much. Balon would have reaped the North anyway and while Theon sacking Winterfell was bad for the Stark's image of power I don't think anything would have happened since at that time in Renly would already be in alliance with Robb if he had lived, even if things were done as in the story. The Boltons would not dare to move against Robb then as their motivation is to pick the winning side and get as much out of it as possible. And even if Renly didn't agree to an alliance he'd still take the Throne on his own and Tywin would likely retreat to Casterly Rock to not be stuck between two enemies (and perhaps forced to obey through all his children being hostages).

I'm sure Balon would have invaded the North anyway, but Theon was critical to his plans because of Theon's knowledge of the North. Theon was the one who attacked Winterfell when it wasn't in the Ironborn's plans. So I think his absence from the Ironborn invasion would have meant that Winterfell would have remained a stronghold.

I think it depends on how you see it. As said I don't think that any alliance would have been possible. Asking Stannis made no sense. He had no relevant forces to win anything with and no one likes him. Renly was always the only choice and he died. I don't see the Tyrell army marching up to Robb after that even if a deal had been made.

Declaring for Stannis would have made sense, IMO. He was the rightful king and Ned effectively died for his claim, though I don't recall if Robb et al knew for sure about Cersei's incest. Stannis didn't have the men, but he did have the ships and he's one of the best battle commanders in Westeros (among Tywin and Randyll Tarly). If he had the North and Riverland forces, I think he would have been on equal footing with Renly, even if Renly still had the larger army.

 

[Kane52630]

 

[PWN3R]

It's perfect.

 

[Mjölnir]

I think lord paramount is the generic title, the Riverlands just use it. I was looking at others, I noticed that the Tyrells are High Marshal of the Reach. Either way, I think we're in agreement.

We are in agreement, yes.

The Greyjoys are a great house on par with the rest, they just have a very distinct culture and everyone hates them./QUOTE]
Yes, but they aren't Lords Paramount of anything. They are like the Martells, who also aren't Lords Paramount and have a distinct culture. They aren't as generally disliked though, it's mainly The Reach that has a problem with them.

I'm sure Balon would have invaded the North anyway, but Theon was critical to his plans because of Theon's knowledge of the North. Theon was the one who attacked Winterfell when it wasn't in the Ironborn's plans. So I think his absence from the Ironborn invasion would have meant that Winterfell would have remained a stronghold.

Yes, I pointed out that Winterfell wouldn't have been sacked but also that I don't think that part would have had any significance. It would have come after Robb joined causes with a hypothetical living Renly, which means no one else would have gone against the Starks.

Declaring for Stannis would have made sense, IMO. He was the rightful king and Ned effectively died for his claim, though I don't recall if Robb et al knew for sure about Cersei's incest. Stannis didn't have the men, but he did have the ships and he's one of the best battle commanders in Westeros (among Tywin and Randyll Tarly). If he had the North and Riverland forces, I think he would have been on equal footing with Renly, even if Renly still had the larger army.

I don't think it makes nearly as much sense as joining Renly. With Renly they not only get one that's much easier to deal with, they get someone with a large enough force to end the war.

Stannis would just be an option where you fight another tough war. The North and the Riverlands aren't enough to fight the Reach and the Stormlands (most of them were with Renly) with any big hopes for success. The Lannisters had twice the men they did, with even more on the way, and the Tyrells on their own had a larger force than the Lannisters (and a larger fleet than Stannis if they had it sail to Dragonstone). The only downside for Renly's army is if Mace Tyrell wants to have too much say, rather than leaving it to guys like Randyll Tarly.

Robb made his share of mistakes, but also had some bad luck with Renly, the battle at Stoney Mill etc.

 

[Jordacar]

And Daario Naharis?

The friendzone

Am I the only one who thought this moment was forced? She sent three guys to storm the castle and now there's two. Why shouldn't she ask about the third guy? If Grey Worm and Daario came back and Jorah was lagging behind with the banner, she would've asked about him. Why's he gotta take it so personally??

 

[Anubis]

Cuz she's not that into him.

 

[Crockett]

The friendzone

This reminds me of the Simpsons episode when Bart was replaying the footage of Lisa mentioning to Ralph that she didn't like him and that she only gave a Valentine's card to him because no one else did. You could actually see the moment his heart break.