Game of Thrones - HBO part 2 - Part 9

[Project862006]

so is the red viper gonna show up next season?

 

[Poeman]

^ ask that question in the books forum, its spoilerish

 

[smashmode]

Game of Thrones wins Critics Choice TV awards for Best Drama:

http://blog.seattlepi.com/thepudger...itics-choice-television-award-for-best-drama/

 

[Pink Ranger]

I hope it wins the Best Drama Emmy this year. The sensational reactions to the Red Wedding have showed the world this isn't just a geek show.

Homeland is sooooo overrated too. I like it, I just don't think it deserves the accolades it gets.

 

[Drz]

Question: Does this universe have any kind of Vampires? Just wondering since it has Giants, Dragons and the Children of the Forest could be considered Elves?

 

[Great Mind(s)]

I would like some kind of vampires to be honest. And/or sea creatures.

 

[Buford The Sly]

I would like some kind of vampires to be honest. And/or sea creatures.

Do cannibals count? Sea creatures? Well, like dragons, they did exist at some point but they've never figured into the story at all. [BLACKOUT]There are Sea Naga (dragon) bones on the Iron Islands that form a type of Cathedral for them.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Victarion]

I got the feeling it had nothing to do with Robb's chances, but Roose not wanting to be brown nosing the Starks the rest of his life. If he's always resented the Starks, maybe with some perceived holier than thou moral high horse standard the Starks can come off with, and he wanted to rise up in the world. I'd say he accomplished that, since now he's the Warden of the North. It seemed more like a move he made to not be stuck in the Westeros version of an office job the rest of his life.

Roose is a spineless punk, though, so I have a hard time giving him any props. I'd easily give Tywin or even Frey more props than I would Roose.

Would a spineless punk have the gall to go against someone who's become a figurehead for the northerners? Nope. I would expect a spineless punk to follow the self-proclaimed King in the North without questioning his king's decisions or offering his help to the king. Roose knew what he wanted and used the situation to claim it.

 

[Mjölnir]

True enough, I meant the noble houses or great houses then.

I assumed as much but it's trickier to know for sure when the story has five different people from four different houses calling themselves king (plus a queen).

 

[Drizzle]

so is the red viper gonna show up next season?

^ ask that question in the books forum, its spoilerish

It's not really spoilerish, but the answer is yes. They've started casting already.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Arya and The Hound little scene was funny, the guy is a comedian.
I bashed Sam the whole season but this time I must give him props.
The small Council scene was nice, Tywin and Tyrion are a great duo.

I understand after Cersei and Tyrion chat that she knows Joffrey will not last long and will be offed when the conflict is over. Am I right ?

 

[Poeman]

It's not really spoilerish, but the answer is yes. They've started casting already.

its a little spoilerish because no many here know who Red Viper is

 

[Pink Ranger]

Arya and The Hound little scene was funny, the guy is a comedian.

I want to see this: The Comedy Central Roast of Tywin Lannister, featuring the other characters as comedians but still kind of in character.

CERSEI: Seriously Dad, you really didn't know that Jaimie and I were ****ing each other? You're more clueless than Renly Baratheon at a strip club.

TYRION: I'm not saying my dad is cheap, but he tells movie ushers that I'm 11 years old just to save five bucks!

PYCELLE: Seriously, my brotha, you gots to loosen up a bit. White Walkers say you're uptight.

HOUND: I'm not saying Tywin was the worst boss I've ever had, but after working for him for 20 years, I wish they'd burn off the other half of my face! Am I right, people?

 

[Buford The Sly]

Arya and The Hound little scene was funny, the guy is a comedian.
I bashed Sam the whole season but this time I must give him props.
The small Council scene was nice, Tywin and Tyrion are a great duo.

I understand after Cersei and Tyrion chat that she knows Joffrey will not last long and will be offed when the conflict is over. Am I right ?

If you really want to know head over to the book thread and we'll tell you.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

If you really want to know head over to the book thread and we'll tell you.

Thanks but I will be fine. I don't want to spoil myself too much.

Edit : My question ( Am I right ? ) was about my understanding of the scene ( dialogue ) not if Joffrey will actually die or not.

 

[Drizzle]

its a little spoilerish because no many here know who Red Viper is

You could say the same thing about Mace Tyrell or Victarion. Just the name doesn't give anything away. If we were going into his backstory and what he does, then we'd be in spoiler territory.

 

[Buford The Sly]

You could say the same thing about Mace Tyrell or Victarion. Just the name doesn't give anything away. If we were going into his backstory and what he does, then we'd be in spoiler territory.

Yeah it'll be posted here anyways when he's been cast. Along with all the new characters coming.

 

[Sawyer]

I want to see this: The Comedy Central Roast of Tywin Lannister, featuring the other characters as comedians but still kind of in character.

CERSEI: Seriously Dad, you really didn't know that Jaimie and I were ****ing each other? You're more clueless than Renly Baratheon at a strip club.

TYRION: I'm not saying my dad is cheap, but he tells movie ushers that I'm 11 years old just to save five bucks!

PYCELLE: Seriously, my brotha, you gots to loosen up a bit. White Walkers say you're uptight.

HOUND: I'm not saying Tywin was the worst boss I've ever had, but after working for him for 20 years, I wish they'd burn off the other half of my face! Am I right, people?

Tywin would simply glare throughout the whole show.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

She's mostly hated for making the wrong decisions and the arguments often sound like they are from people that don't like the characters to have flaws. As for her wish upon Jon, it was in a completely broken down state emotionally so hardly her regular self.

She still hates Jon because he came out of the wrong vagina. She doesn't care that her children love him and that its returned

Robb was also in most need of her children (of the ones she could reach) and the blame she puts on herself for Bran and Rickon is just the kind of blame a mother gets, it was never even remotely realistic that her presence there would have changed anything. I think she's a great character that really feels human, which includes making mistakes.

I would disagree that Robb needed her the most. Her political-savvy was helpful (if only he'd have listened to it), but she ended up being a detriment to him once she let Jaime go. Bran and Rickon needed a mother more than Robb needed another councilor. She's not a terrible character, I just really dislike her.

It's also funny since a good deal of people called the second scene you mention "character assassination". I didn't think so but there was quite an uproar about it.

I thought it was great. We got a sense of how much she disliked Jon without making her out to be cold or heartless. I see some people complain about any change. Like how Arya had her coin-trick/shanking this week instead of during her Harrenhal escape or that she didn't kill The Tickler in a fit of rage. My only complaints are they've cut a lot of Stannis' great, character defining moments/lines.

I think women more easily get hated for mistakes as well though. You rarely hear people attack Ned for bringing home a bastard child to your wife, whom you don't really know that well by then, and refuse to explain yourself or even talk about it at all. That's truly what Catelyn resents with Jon, not really Jon himself.

With Ned, that's pretty much the only bad/dishonorable thing he does in his entire life and as readers, we know of the [blackout]R+L=J theory which absolves him[/blackout].

But, he did see the long game, which is why he wanted to take Casterly Rock. He knew his victories were small, so he was fully aware of it. It's why he wasn't satisfied with those small victories. And really, capturing Casterly Rock would have been a huge victory.

I'm not sure how Tywin was playing the long game. He had an opportunity to nullify all the prowess that Robb had, and took it. I don't see how he could have planned, from the very start, to have one of Robb's own Bannermen backstab him.

No, Robb didn't see the long game. He was a complete reactionary leader. He called his bannermen and went to war to free Ned. When Ned was executed, he let his lords declare him King in the North. His only strategy to gain independence was to beat the Lannisters into submission. He was such an ineffectual ruler that he didn't even tell Edmure, his uncle who grants him the strength of the Riverlands by supporting him, of his plans with luring the Mountain into a trap. Once Tywin goes back to King's Landing, he has no battles to fight, so he can't win the war the way he envisioned. So he thinks of an enormous gamble to take Casterly Rock. If he won, that and the Riverlands are all he has. He doesn't have the means to hold it long-term with the Tyrells supporting the Lannisters. If he lost, all of his men would die and his "kingdom" would continued to be pillaged by Ironborn until the south invaded or the White Walkers came (which would happened even if he did succeed in taking Casterly Rock).

If Robb wanted to defeat the Lannisters (not become independent), he would have bent the knee to Stannis or Renly (preferably Stannis since even Tywin knows he's a man who will fight to the bitter end for his claim), married a Frey, and always kept Theon with him. Regardless of whether the two were like brothers, Balon Greyjoy had no reason to risk his own hide for the Starks (despite thinking of the worst idea of invading the North simply because it has infinitesimal value to the Greyjoys due to it being a tundra with only one major port city, a few small islands far north, and fishing villages).

Would a spineless punk have the gall to go against someone who's become a figurehead for the northerners? Nope. I would expect a spineless punk to follow the self-proclaimed King in the North without questioning his king's decisions or offering his help to the king. Roose knew what he wanted and used the situation to claim it.

Roose Bolton wanted to become Warden of the North so he could bring back his family tradition of flaying people alive. He hated that the Starks outlawed flaying like it was something bad

Oh, and he has a bastard son (backstory spoiler)[blackout]conceived of rape[/blackout] who is the only person in Westeros that makes Joffrey look like a saint.

He is spineless worm because he only turned on Robb because he knew he had the most powerful man in Westeros supporting him.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Roose Bolton wanted to become Warden of the North so he could bring back his family tradition of flaying people alive. He hated that the Starks outlawed flaying like it was something bad

Hey, you've got to respect other people's cultural beliefs. Those racist Starks!

 

[Sawyer]

Hey, you've got to respect other people's cultural beliefs. Those racist Starks!

I can imagine Viserys crying "RACISTS!" if anyone questioned his desire to mate with Dany...

 

[Mjölnir]

She still hates Jon because he came out of the wrong vagina. She doesn't care that her children love him and that its returned

I disagree. I think she just hates what Ned did. She could handle that he was unfaithful as it was a long war and they did not yet know each other, but she sees it as a big insult to her that he brings the child home (he could have sent him to be fostered somewhere else, like Ned himself was) and refuses to discuss it. Jon suffers from it but I think her thoughts are understandable, even if they aren't sympathetic.

I would disagree that Robb needed her the most. Her political-savvy was helpful (if only he'd have listened to it), but she ended up being a detriment to him once she let Jaime go. Bran and Rickon needed a mother more than Robb needed another councilor. She's not a terrible character, I just really dislike her.

The show and book of course differ a bit here. As a book reader I look at her that way and she releases Jaime because she thinks Bran and Rickon are dead and in sorrow and desperation she does what she can to get the remainders of the family back. She was not just another councilor either, she was for example the only one Robb trusted to send to parlay with Renly. The war was important for Bran and Rickon in the long run as well.

I thought it was great. We got a sense of how much she disliked Jon without making her out to be cold or heartless. I see some people complain about any change. Like how Arya had her coin-trick/shanking this week instead of during her Harrenhal escape or that she didn't kill The Tickler in a fit of rage. My only complaints are they've cut a lot of Stannis' great, character defining moments/lines.

They felt that it made her more unlikable and that's why they complained. As said I don't share that view and I think it was a good scene, especially with Michelle's acting.

Stannis has been a bit up and down. They made him into more of a frontline commander at Blackwater than he is in the books, but he lacks some other positive things.

With Ned, that's pretty much the only bad/dishonorable thing he does in his entire life and as readers, we know of the [blackout]R+L=J theory which absolves him[/blackout].

Yes, although [BLACKOUT]it can be seen as a negative that even after he and Catelyn truly fell in love he did never say anything that alleviated her constant pain of having Jon there. He wouldn't have had to tell the whole truth. But he is what he is, honorable to a fault and he held his promise literary. He also rather risks war than to take a peaceful action where they don't give the crown to Stannis.[/BLACKOUT]


I almost answered one of the things you discussed with the other poster but luckily remembered that you haven't finished ADWD.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I disagree. I think she just hates what Ned did. She could handle that he was unfaithful as it was a long war and they did not yet know each other, but she sees it as a big insult to her that he brings the child home (he could have sent him to be fostered somewhere else, like Ned himself was) and refuses to discuss it. Jon suffers from it but I think her thoughts are understandable, even if they aren't sympathetic.

I think a lot of it is because of Ned, but she still doesn't like Jon, especially because he looks more like a Stark than any of her children except Arya.

The show and book of course differ a bit here. As a book reader I look at her that way and she releases Jaime because she thinks Bran and Rickon are dead and in sorrow and desperation she does what she can to get the remainders of the family back. She was not just another councilor either, she was for example the only one Robb trusted to send to parlay with Renly. The war was important for Bran and Rickon in the long run as well.

I think it speaks to how poorly Robb placed his trust in people. Theon betrayed him, Cat failed him (twice in the book), and he had little faith in his own men.

They felt that it made her more unlikable and that's why they complained. As said I don't share that view and I think it was a good scene, especially with Michelle's acting.

I loved it as well. I thought the story was in-character (for show Cat, not book Cat who is crueler) and believable. I think Michelle has made the character so much more likable for me.

Stannis has been a bit up and down. They made him into more of a frontline commander at Blackwater than he is in the books, but he lacks some other positive things.

As I've earlier, it sucks that they've cut so many of his lines that define him. I'm hoping him interacting with [blackout]Jon[/blackout] can make up for that.

Yes, although [BLACKOUT]it can be seen as a negative that even after he and Catelyn truly fell in love he did never say anything that alleviated her constant pain of having Jon there. He wouldn't have had to tell the whole truth. But he is what he is, honorable to a fault and he held his promise literary. He also rather risks war than to take a peaceful action where they don't give the crown to Stannis.[/BLACKOUT]

[blackout]I think he did it mostly to make sure Jon would always be safe.[/blackout]

I almost answered one of the things you discussed with the other poster but luckily remembered that you haven't finished ADWD.

I know what happens though, I just stopped before the second-to-last Dany chapter like 6 months ago and haven't had the time to resume reading. I finally picked it up again though (and Dany did something!).

 

[Mjölnir]

I think a lot of it is because of Ned, but she still doesn't like Jon, especially because he looks more like a Stark than any of her children except Arya.

I agree she doesn't like Jon, but I just think it has come as a result of her being angry at Ned. The real issue has been twisted over time and it's easier to direct it toward the "object".

I think it speaks to how poorly Robb placed his trust in people. Theon betrayed him, Cat failed him (twice in the book), and he had little faith in his own men.

I think Cat could have have gotten everything possible out of a alliance with Renly. It's hard to negotiate with someone that doesn't need anything but she got some decent terms as far as it went and if Robb was smart he'd taken them. Cat failed because of the murder. I don't see anyone else having done any better.

As I've earlier, it sucks that they've cut so many of his lines that define him. I'm hoping him interacting with [blackout]Jon[/blackout] can make up for that.

My guess is that [BLACKOUT]they are playing on his downsides a bit to have a large heroic moment as a savior at the Wall later. I don't know if it will last though as he is pretty hard to deal with for Jon, good offers aside.[/BLACKOUT]

[blackout]I think he did it mostly to make sure Jon would always be safe.[/blackout]

Yes, but it got to the extreme as usual as I don't think a light alternative would have risked much. The complete silence was troublesome, but it's in character.

I know what happens though, I just stopped before the second-to-last Dany chapter like 6 months ago and haven't had the time to resume reading. I finally picked it up again though (and Dany did something!).

Then I'd just add that [BLACKOUT]Roose does have some shreds of noble ideas when it comes to ruling. His "a peaceful land, a quiet people" is actually one of the better ideas rulers in Westeros have when it comes to the lives of the smallfolk, which many other rulers don't care too much about. He is of course not a saint by any means and there will certainly be some horrible things that would never have come under Stark rule, but war is pretty terrible too. And on that topic I think that his talk with Theon about how he knows that there's something deeply wrong with Ramsay, but that it's not realistic to get another heir, is one of my favorite parts of the book.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Roose Bolton]

There is that small, faintest hint of humanity when Roose mentions [blackout] Domeric, who by a means sounded like a normal guy [/blackout]