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Discussion in 'Gotham' started by Sawyer, Sep 17, 2014.
Teddybearman will own and eat all
That's how i feel about corny nonsense. If i was seven maybe i would appreciate the Balloon Man more. Or the TeddyBear Man could take his place, and maybe ill be into it.
People fear bats and they've been associated with evil. His motives are pure. A balloon is something you pop at a kids birthday party. A weather balloon can't hold a person in the air like that. Balloon Man sparks the vigilante idea in Bruce's head? He's killing off mobsters? Who wrote this, the cartoon cat?
A killer clown? a clown is something you have at kids birthday party.
A corrupt business man who acts like a penguin? A cat burglar who also dresses up as a cat? Who the hell writes this stuff? a 8 year old?
I don't think so at all, the focus is crystal clear on slowly showing the descent of Gotham into a place that will become so bad it needs the batman, and is meanwhile showing Gordon's uncompromisingly idealistic attitude shift to understand that maybe this city only has a chance with help from outsider the system as Bruce grows to believe he's that force. Flash was wrapped up in a very very tidy bow and they made it a fun episode, while this is a much more extended storyline.
The balloon man was something straight out of btas, and ya it was funny seeing a dude hanging and screaming 100 ft in the air, but frankly that seems like something Gotham WOULD have. But the character was important in many ways - he was just a nobody who wanted to do good for he city and wipe out the corrupt and will have a profound impact on both Gordon and bruce.
I hear you, but I think Batman's costume/look is a reflection of the dark romanticism or Gothicism that's associated with the lore. There's a certain level of supernatural or mystical phenomena in the comic books that's almost intrinsic to the nature of how he's presented in that fictional world. When you take him out of that environment (where there's no Superman; no Wonder Woman; no Doctor Fate), then you have to change the rules a little bit; and that becomes a real challenge.
Grounding him in reality is great, but if you steer too far in that direction, then you have to start answering certain questions. There's no safety net. You can't say that he dresses up like a bat because he resides in a world with a bunch of aliens, amazons, ghosts, and demons unless you've established that such creatures exist in your narrative. So, then people start looking at him differently. He's the only guy on the planet who dresses this way. He must be completely bonkers. It's a very tricky formula to get right on film.
Thank you, sir.
I think the reason that certain people "hate on" this show more than the Flash has a lot to do with the Nolan trilogy. As good as the films were, it's uber-realistic approach is only one interpretation of Batman. But when Gotham goes and does something like The Balloonman, even though it's closer to the source it comes off as drastically different, and a lot of people here view "different" as "wrong". Flash, meanwhile, has always been outlandish and mildly cheesy, therefore it's accepted.
I think it's because the producers of the show aren't quite sure what they want it to be just yet, and that's unfortunate. On the one hand, there's violence, blood and suggestive themes; on the other, you have these really kitschy villains that appear to be designed solely for kids (like the weird couple from episode two). It goes up and down. The tone isn't consistent.
Inconsistency is at the root of almost all its problems. It's a little too worried about making sure you remember that this is Batman and not with being its own story that would be watchable even if it wasn't called Gotham.
I think it's improving. This episode almost had me pulled in on its own merits. But it has to be willing to follow its own strengths, even if that takes it way off the beaten path and by Season 2 barely contains any direct Batman references.
I'm terrified it will be about the Joker by episode 6.
Oh well, im done with this show. Maybe ill watch it if im bored on Monday nights, maybe i wont watch anything until episode 7, maybe i wont watch it until the whole season is on Netflix. Maybe ill never see another episode again. Either way, im done discussing this show that doesn't know if it wants to be a kiddie show or some mediocre cop drama. And im certainly done talking with people on here who think it's amazing. I dont know what kind of tv or film you folks watch, but it's certainly nothing i can relate to. So im checking out. Back to the other sections of the forum.
I agree about the tone.
It seems to shift between feeling like a regular police drama and something more Batman-ish, instead of finding a way to blend the two together in a consistent way.
Also, by proxy allow me to convey some of my wife's opinions, which she kept asserting over the dialogue...
- Ben McKenzie is a weak actor who keeps making a "growly face" in every situation
- Erin Richards is also a weak actor and the whole lesbian sideplot is lame and probably an attempt to pass the Turing Test
- Jade Pinkett Smith has a bumpy back
- Why is Alfred such a jerk?
- The Cat girl looks totally like a cat, even down to the bridge of the nose. She actually has an interesting role in everything, too, and doesn't seem shoehorned in.
- The dialogue was really bad but is improving
- "Who's that guy?" (asked about every single character)
I think that's everything she said. I was trying to watch the show...
What does she think about young Bruce?
She just makes a scrunchy face.
Okay, I think we get it. No more kiddie shows for you. Thanks. Move it along.
You're describing over 90% of Batman comic books ever written. Penguin, Riddler, Catwoman, Joker et all are all kitschy characters even when they're written completely straight.
The tone of this show is my favorite thing about it. There's definitely room for improvement, but I think they've started off really well.
While I'll agree that Erin Richards isn't a great actress, as long as she keeps showing up with no pants on, she can have all the screen time she wants.
Three episodes in and I'm still coming back. Given that I haven't gotten into the habit of watching a TV show in years, with the exception of Doctor Who, that's something, at least for me.
I agree Fish is wearing thin quickly. On the other hand Cobblepot is a joy, I love every scene with him. Gordon, who struck me as the least interesting character on the show during the pilot, is starting to grow on me. Again on the other hand, Bullock is wearing on me, too.
For some reason, I just cannot, cannot, cannot get into the kid playing Bruce Wayne. Maybe if he ever got some screen time when he wasn't in the study with Alfred that might change.
The Balloonman concept sounded goofy but I thought it was executed well. I agree they are going for an increasing level of crazy and even foreshadowing it heavily through Cobblepot's rants. With some luck the series lasts long enough to execute that aim.
Scarface and The Ventriloquist is a goofy concept, but I'd give my right arm to see him onscreen.
I pretty much loved this episode.
In my opinion, THIS is exactly what the show should be aiming for every week. The tone is a nice mix between playful and dark (campy dark, but dark). It seems some people have been so indoctrinated by the Nolan films that they can't embrace a version of Batman's world that truly wishes to present and ackowledge the absurd. The Batman mythos has been interpreted a multitude of ways, but this show is a step too far or something? Weird.
The Balloonman was creepy and a little fantastical, which not only made the episode stand out more but also made tracks in giving Gordon a more interesting adversary to go up against. I actually wouldn't mind if Gordon started to develop his own little rogues gallery on this show. I know some complain about McKenzie being stiff, but he's basically playing the straight man to all the wacky around him, so I'll cut him some slack. I'm enjoying his portrayal and certainly want to see him evolve as the show progresses.
As usual, the stuff with The Penguin was alot of fun. It'll be intriguing to see how the relationship with Maroni blossoms moving forward... perhaps he'll have more significant success usurping him than he did Mooney. As for Fish, I enjoyed her quite a bit in this episode. Pinkett-Smith was once again toned down and seems to be settling into the role better. Nobody minds a bit of over-acting, but she simply laid it on too thick in last weeks installment. She was more interesting and commanding this time around.
The stuff with Barbara (Does she do anything other than lie around that apartment half naked all day?) and Montoya isn't all that interesting. They were lesbians... I get it!! They have to start revealing more of their backstory in order to keep us engaged. What's up with this dark drugged-filled past that Barbara is alluding to and why is she letting this crazy ex bust into her home every second day?
Alfred finally came across as more likeable in this episode (Perhaps the change in writer helped?) and I praticularly enjoyed the scene with both him and Master Bruce duelling. I have to say David Mazouz is fantastic and they nicely forshadowed Batman without hitting us over the head.
This show is now three episodes in and it still has me gripped. This episode was wonderfully written and shot with great visual flair. The cast are getting better and better every week and the show is finally (hopefully) finding some firm footing.
I'll be more than happy to keep visiting Gotham every Monday night.
I actually know nothing of the particular style of any of the Batman movies. I just know that I didn't care for this particular "scary" villain-of-the-week with his balloon schtick. I'm delighted to have already been given a glimpse into future episodes though. With evil creepster villains like Victor Zsasz and possibly Scarecrow and Two-Face showing up, the darkness/violence will surely be returning.
I enjoyed this episode. Watching Bullock get beaten up by the black chick was the funniest part of the episode. The Balloonman was a good concept and executed really well. The actress playing Barbara can't act for toffee. The lesbian sub plot with Montoya is so hokey. I hope they don't drag it out.
The Penguin was as usual a highlight, and his connection with Maroni is really intriguing. As was his cocky showing up at Gordon's place at the end in a fancy new suit, probably purchased from the money Maroni gave him during their little chat.
I really like Falcone in this show. I hope he isn't dispatched too early. I found Alfred more tolerable in this episode. Could have done without the sword fight bit though.
I definitely enjoyed this episode more than the previous two. I liked the concept of the Balloon Man. I'm not sure if that's what people here are referring to as being "kiddy"... but if that's it, dudes, come on, that's a nasty way to kill a person. I didn't see anything kiddy about it.
The whole idea of vigilantes starting to rise in Gotham is a good one and it's a nice foreshadowing for Bruce who will become the ultimate vigilante. In that regard, it was interesting to see how much Gordon disapproves of that concept. It will be interesting to see how his views change and he comes to accept Batman. Assuming, of course, that we ever see Batman in the show - which may never happen.
The lesbian subplot seems like a dead weight that drags the show down. Oh well. I guess that we need "drama at home" for Gordon as well, and in that vein I wonder if Jimbo-The-Lawful-Good-Policeman-Guy knows that Barbara is a stoner t: Hopefully, this thing won't go on for long. Though I'm sure it will.
Harvey Bullock is absolutely the most interesting character in the show so far. He's funny, he's not shoved down our throats and he's played by a good actor. I wonder if he'll undergo some character development or if he'll remain just the funny, slimy secondary anti-hero. Either way I'm fine with it.
The subplot with the mob is beginning to drag for me. The veiled threats between Falcone and Mooney are not that awesome, to be honest. Though I suppose that Maroni could shake things up. There is always Penguin as well. I imagine that with this show, fans of the characters would be happy with the way he gets so much spotlight and is slowly, but obviously shaping up to become quite the threat.
I like the interaction between Alfred and Bruce. Sure, this is a very different Alfred than the fatherly Michael Caine... but he's starting to grow on me. He's not a kind old man, but I believe that he doesn't care any less for Bruce than the other versions of the character.
So, overall, to me this episode was an improvement. Will continue to watch.
I was pleased to see David Zayas as Moroni. Loved him in Dexter.
You think he's THE Moroni? Or maybe his father?