Gotham Gotham Season 1, Episode 5 "Viper" General Discussion

[TheBat812]

I have a feeling they're slowly building up e nygma so they can introduce him into a storyline that has been building, but probably not until penguin is more established in the mob scene.

 

[The Joker]

This episode was a mixed bag for me. I enjoyed Penguin and as usual he was the highlight, and the whole Maroni angle was entertaining. I loved seeing Bruce and Alfred working together. The corruption in W.E. is an interesting development. The venom introduction was pretty neat.

Not sure I liked seeing Falcone being such a softie over his mother to a random stranger. The scene with the old man taking the venom was so cheesy. Fish Mooney is getting more corny every week. Jada's acting is slipping, too.

I still have not been wowed by McKenzie as Gordon. Logue is great as Bullock though.

 

[flickchick85]

All of Joss Whedon's previous shows were good straight out of the gate. AoS wasn't.

Really? I thought it was a pretty widely accepted belief that Whedon's shows always get off to unimpressive starts and take a little time to find their footing. I've heard that claim all the time throughout the years, even before I started watching his shows. Once I finally did, I totally agreed with it. I mean, let's be real, when people want to show their friends an episode of Buffy that best represents the show, they'll never choose the pilot. And frankly, that would apply to all of his shows. The best pilot of a Joss Whedon show was Firefly's, and of course, the network never aired that one as a pilot. All of his other shows got off to pretty weak starts, imo, ESPECIALLY when compared to what the shows would eventually become. He even had to warn his fans to stick with Dollhouse for several episodes before it ever aired due to all the network interference he was getting at the beginning. While AoS is not completely a Joss Whedon show, it does follow that model, though I think it took a little longer to find its footing than his other stuff...with the possible exception of Angel (almost the entire 1st season of that one feels like filler compared to...everything that came after). But like his other stuff, AoS has found its footing and become a much better show than the pilot let on, and what's encouraging is that it now feels like it's just getting warmed up.

It's basically because of Joss Whedon's shows that I've now learned to never judge a show by its pilot. I always give 'em time to find themselves. That's why I've stuck with Gotham (and tbh, it's still why I'm sticking with Gotham, because it's still not "there" yet, imo) and many other shows that I've come to love.

 

[DrMylesOBoogie]

This was the most solid episode. It seemed to find the balance of sharing the screen time with the ensemble cast. Bullock and Gordon were great. Both adding subtle nuanced comedy to some of their scenes that I really liked. Penguin consistently brilliant. But the most encouraging aspect was the portrayal of Bruce Wayne. He's more like the troubled genius we know from the comics than any other live action interpretation we've seen. Alfred is a lot less irritating too so I hope this show continues to improve in the aspects that it already has.

 

[DigificWriter]

Really? I thought it was a pretty widely accepted belief that Whedon's shows always get off to unimpressive starts and take a little time to find their footing. I've heard that claim all the time throughout the years, even before I started watching his shows. Once I finally did, I totally agreed with it. I mean, let's be real, when people want to show their friends an episode of Buffy that best represents the show, they'll never choose the pilot. And frankly, that would apply to all of his shows. The best pilot of a Joss Whedon show was Firefly's, and of course, the network never aired that one as a pilot. All of his other shows got off to pretty weak starts, imo, ESPECIALLY when compared to what the shows would eventually become. He even had to warn his fans to stick with Dollhouse for several episodes before it ever aired due to all the network interference he was getting at the beginning. While AoS is not completely a Joss Whedon show, it does follow that model, though I think it took a little longer to find its footing than his other stuff...with the possible exception of Angel (almost the entire 1st season of that one feels like filler compared to...everything that came after). But like his other stuff, AoS has found its footing and become a much better show than the pilot let on, and what's encouraging is that it now feels like it's just getting warmed up.

It's basically because of Joss Whedon's shows that I've now learned to never judge a show by its pilot. I always give 'em time to find themselves. That's why I've stuck with Gotham (and tbh, it's still why I'm sticking with Gotham, because it's still not "there" yet, imo) and many other shows that I've come to love.

Hmm. You raise some good points, so maybe I'm alone in feeling like all of Joss' pilot episodes prior to AoS were excellent.

 

[Frodo]

Hmm. You raise some good points, so maybe I'm alone in feeling like all of Joss' pilot episodes prior to AoS were excellent.

To fair, the Buffy pilot was a hit and was well liked right out of the gate so the show didn't have to struggle to find its audience. Dollhouse was always kinda controversial and problematic so it was kinda fighting an uphill battle though it did seem Nikita incorporated a few aspects of it into its show. I think Angel did alright.

I do think Gotham has alot more going for it than AOS did in its first season. I think Gotham has the elements there to be a good show, it just needs to trim the fat and hone its storytelling more. AOS was banking on the popularity of the MCU without many real compelling characters or elements beyond that imo, and you mainly had fanboys really interested in it. Gotham is more popular with the GA and the mainstream so its got that going for it.

 

[Charlatan]

This was the most solid episode. It seemed to find the balance of sharing the screen time with the ensemble cast. Bullock and Gordon were great. Both adding subtle nuanced comedy to some of their scenes that I really liked. Penguin consistently brilliant. But the most encouraging aspect was the portrayal of Bruce Wayne. He's more like the troubled genius we know from the comics than any other live action interpretation we've seen. Alfred is a lot less irritating too so I hope this show continues to improve in the aspects that it already has.

yeah I'm really liking the Bruce/Alfred interaction. Hate Jada and the Fish Mooney character. The sooner she's gone the better. Bullock was more tolerable this episode because he's not hitting the audience over the head every scene that he's a "corrupt cop ,yet still cares". That one note is getting boring.
Need more background on Alfred,Selena and Barbara.

 

[scifiwolf]

"WHAT'S ALTRUISM!"

Liking this show a bit more every week. It's funny that some people think Jada's getting worse in the overacting department. I find her getting better. It feels a bit less like hamming and more like inhabiting the character. I think she has a ways to go to find the character, but I see more subtlety already than she exhibited in the pilot.

Also loving the Bruce Wayne stuff. I feel like this show is going to avoid so many of the pitfalls and traps that Smallville fell into by introducing character developments too soon, or even at all. I think the ensemble nature of the show is helping with his story too. So many characters to focus on, they don't have to do a lot to get a lot out of Bruce. Same thing really goes for every other major character. I find that they seem to be doing more with less in terms of screentime.

 

[The Shape]

Yeah, I'm not getting the hate for Jada's character. She's clearly a villain that has her own schtick. Is she over-the-top and hammy? Sure, but that's kindof why I like it. Her vocal inflections, hand movements, facial expressions -- all have been consistent so far and I'm enjoying what she's been doing so far. For a one-shot villain who's likely going to die this season, I don't think she's bad at all. Definitely fits with the vibe of the show so far and is a nice contrast the the more reserved/collected Falcone.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

John Doman will always be Caesar to me...

 

[shauner111]

Yeah, but I actually enjoy Jada Pinkett-Smith as Fish. I do not buy David Zayas as a mob boss for one second. He doesn't even try to change his accent for one, and secondly I've never been terribly impressed with him as an actor. Not on Dexter, certainly not on this show. The moments where he had to play "threatening" just came off as goofy to me, because he's a goofy actor playing a role he's miscast as. They could've done much, much better.

I do like Falcone though.

I liked him as Batista in Dexter. But impressed with his acting? Not really. He's basically Batista with a nice suit in this show. But i can't say that i mind his Maroni.

Jada is annoying but im giving this little story a chance, involving her "weapon".

Something about Cobblepot's hair/look that annoys me lol. But the guy is nailing this role, and Penguin is always the highlight each week.

Other than him, i find the acting overall in Gotham to be very poor. Id say poor to average. And when Ben McKenzie is at his best, or the young Bruce, it's slightly above average. Nobody really makes me go "that's a good performance".

Bullock is growing on me more and more. He has great chemistry with Gordon. Im not fond of the dialogue in this show but the lines they write for Bullock are actually great and funny. I wish that pair was on a different kind of Gotham series to be honest.

The actor playing Nygma seems to be playing it straighter each week. Maybe they asked him to tone it down after the pilot. But i find this character, or maybe it's the actor, quite boring.

I thought the whole Viper plot was horrible and cheesy. If i want to watch a good cartoon, ill watch B:TAS.

The Bruce/Alfred bits don't really interest me. I find it's a waste of time, it's not leading anywhere, he's not going to become Batman on this show, he's not leaving to go train. At least we won't see it. So it's just going to be little Bruce trying to act like a detective even though he's 11 or 12. Not a fan of the actor playign Alfred because he has no dynamics. It's always the same expression on his face. I do like the direction they're taking him now though. He's warming up to Bruce. That's a plus.

The cinematography, especially in the final scene was amazing. GREAT stuff there.

 

[Naked Shia]

I like how crazy this show can get. The viper was used well in that regard. They are not afraid to be totally comic booky. The old man on viper was pure gold.

 

[Breogan]

did anyone else catch that brief shot of the tv Bruce was watching?
it seemed he was watching zorro or something, it was quick but, I definitely saw a man in a black cape

Yes I did

The other dude was Zorro imo

Totally missed it, Is it possible to do a screen cap?
What scenes did this come between? I did a quick look back at the Bruce Alfred scenes and didn't even notice a TV
Is it before or after the don't put anything in the fire scene?

 

[Naked Shia]

ya, it was zorro allright, wich I lik'd.

 

[Kane52630]

 

[Comics]

nerd!!

 

[Kane52630]

http://kane52630.tumblr.com/post/100881070289/s01-e05-viper-gotham

 

[Lencho01]

Gordon should've kept quiet and just grab Selina... while enjoying his lunch.

 

[Breogan]

Nice capture, can't tell if that's legit Zorro?, they'd probably have to secure rights.
Like the Balloonman Lamont kills Lt. Cranston, it's another definite nod/homage.

 

[Comics]

Nice capture, can't tell if that's legit Zorro?, they'd probably have to secure rights.
Like the Balloonman Lamont kills Lt. Cranston, it's another definite nod/homage.

Sorry, excuse my ignorance. Can you explain?

 

[The Guard]

Lamont Cranston is the alter ego of the pulp character/Batman-precursor and influence The Shadow. And the look the Balloonman takes on with the wide-brimmed hat, dark coat and bandanna...that's the basic look for The Shadow.

 

[Breogan]

Sorry, excuse my ignorance. Can you explain?

Lamont Cranston is the alter ego of the pulp character/Batman-precursor and influence The Shadow. And the look the Balloonman takes on with the wide-brimmed hat, dark coat and bandanna...that's the basic look for The Shadow.

Yep, and along with the visual a little more is woven in with the actual name drops - The Balloon man is actually called Davis Lamont. When he kills Lieutenant Cranston is when he is dressed as the Shadow lookalike.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Just getting caught up on this episode and it was a thoroughly enjoyable 45 minutes. This show really has been getting better and better every week.

Some observations:

• Bruce finally got out of that room, even if it was only for a short period of time. It interesting to see him taking charge of the company and ruffling some feathers.

• I'm really warming up to Fish Mooney. JPS has toned down the vampiness and found a consistent groove with the character. She has been less in your face in these past two episodes and it's fun to see her scheming her way through the Gotham underworld.

• As always, it's fun in this post-Nolan world to see a show that isn't afraid to embrace it's cartoony comic book roots. The ''Viper'' drug was goofy in execution, but still quite entertaining and disgusting.

• There's the Alfred I know and love. I'm all for change but I don't ever want to see Alfred being a dick to Bruce. Like Fish, they've toned him down quite a bit.

• I'm not sure why Penguin had to go and reveal himself like that to Maroni. Couldn't he have gotten on his good side just by helping him break into the casino? I don't get why he would jepordize his plans in that manner.

• Beautiful ending. I already feel a little sorry for Falcone.

 

[NoLaNitE007]

Good episode. Things are heating up!

You can feel the eerie tension with the scenes with Sal, Jim and Penguin. Falcone is being lured in...

Good scenes with Gordon and Bullock again. There are developing a good chemistry.

BenM was humorous this time around and I want to see more of that.

 

[NoLaNitE007]

Just getting caught up on this episode and it was a thoroughly enjoyable 45 minutes. This show really has been getting better and better every week.

Some observations:

• Bruce finally got out of that room, even if it was only for a short period of time. It interesting to see him taking charge of the company and ruffling some feathers.

• I'm really warming up to Fish Mooney. JPS has toned down the vampiness and found a consistent groove with the character. She has been less in your face in these past two episodes and it's fun to see her scheming her way through the Gotham underworld.

• As always, it's fun in this post-Nolan world to see a show that isn't afraid to embrace it's cartoony comic book roots. The ''Viper'' drug was goofy in execution, but still quite entertaining and disgusting.

• There's the Alfred I know and love. I'm all for change but I don't ever want to see Alfred being a dick to Bruce. Like Fish, they've toned him down quite a bit.

• I'm not sure why Penguin had to go and reveal himself like that to Maroni. Couldn't he have gotten on his good side just by helping him break into the casino? I don't get why he would jepordize his plans in that manner.

• Beautiful ending. I already feel a little sorry for Falcone.

Agreed!