Gotham Gotham Season 1, Episode 4 "Arkham" General Discussion

[Zordan]

its getting better... I think it will improve more during the season. It def needs to be less cartoony and cheesy.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

I appreciated the cinematography in this episode, even if it was unnatural at times.

 

[Kane52630]

http://kane52630.tumblr.com/post/100002963964/s01-e04-arkham-gotham

 

[Kane52630]

 

[DigificWriter]

It def needs to be less cartoony and cheesy.

Why? It's pulpy Noir, and it's working really well. Anything less than what it is, and the show would lose what makes it worth watching.

It amazes me that people can praise something like Batman TAS for what it did, and yet criticize this show for not only doing the same thing tonally and aesthetically, but doing it BETTER (yes, I said this show is better than Batman TAS, and I'm being completely serious).

This show embraces the Noir and Pulp genres to a degree that BTAS never did, and is giving the television landscape something that you don't normally see: a good, pulpy, serialized Noir show with just enough procedural elements to let new viewers come on board easily.

"Arkham" is a case-in-point example of this, using the plot device of the Arkham District vote as a fulcrum off of which to pivot the ongoing underlying narrative of the Waynes' murder being more than it seemed and to continue to develop its main characters and point them towards becoming the people we know they become, particularly Bruce Wayne and Oswald Cobblepot.

Cobblepot's scheming to get himself into a position of power and Bruce investigating the politics of the Arkham vote and the murders of several councilmen on both sides of the Arkham issue lay the groundwork for where their individual journeys are headed in ways that the first 3 episodes really hadn't, and also help tie together the rest of the episode's plot threads into a nice cohesive package that makes for a very satisfying self-contained narrative that also makes great use of the series' serialized nature.

We're also given some development on the Jim/Barbara 'homefront', and while it might come across to some people as being overly contrived and 'soapy', I personally think it works because it helps to emphasize the internal conflict that Jim is always going to be dealing with, particularly when it comes to navigating his way through the chaos that is Gotham's social and political climate.

I really like Jada Pinkett Smith's portrayal of Fish Mooney, and her seemingly out-of-place role in this episode made for a nice additional layer of storytelling on top of the Arkham issue, and also gave us a nice tie-back (intentional or not) to The Dark Knight, which I thought was neat. It also doesn't hurt that the character of Liza looks like and reminds me of WWE Diva Paige (which is awesome).

I am kind of surprised that we didn't see Selina, Montoya, Allen, or Falcone here (particularly since Falcone was one of the people backing one side of the Arkham issue), but when you've got as big a main and recurring cast as this show does, certain actors are bound not to show up in every episode.

This episode gets a 9.5 out of 10; it's not only Gotham's best episode so far, it's also the best example of what the series is and why it works so phenomenally well.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

This show looks gorgeous. The cinematography is improving week by week.

 

[NoBozos]

There were a couple of cringe spots-one in particular is when Maroni was talking about wanting payback. It sounded like something you would hear in an an old video game

Now that Barbara has gotten out of the apartment they need to figure out how to get Bruce out of that one room.

 

[EssayM]

This was great. Way better than the last episode. The shots are beautiful, the writing's only improved from what was already pretty solid, and there's even actual suspense building up. Even Fish Mooney wasn't half bad in this one; she's always better when they have her be cold and violent. All the villains were cool this week, even Spike Guy. And they brought back Ed!

I need to go lay down, I'm too happy right now.

P.S. That girl that Fish ends up hiring, the singer...could that maybe be a certain clown's girlfriend? She certainly looks the part.

 

[Kane52630]

She did leave the apartment back in the pilot.

 

[Kane52630]

About the singer...isn't that Sara Paxton?

 

[DigificWriter]

About the singer...isn't that Sara Paxton?

No. The actress' name is Mackenzie Leigh.

Spoiler

Sara Paxton will supposedly be playing the original Batgirl, Bette Kane.

 

[famicommander]

(yes, I said this show is better than Batman TAS, and I'm being completely serious).

 

[NoBozos]

Harvey said that guy in the interrogation room was the "clown prince of crime"

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Too bad the assassin was killed. I thought he was great. Would have liked to have seen him as a recurring character.

 

[DigificWriter]

~ snip ~

Post all the spit-take GIFS you want; I stand by what I said.

 

[Wheels]

Perhaps better in the context of fully embracing the pulp/noir stuff, if that what's most important to you then I guess I could see that viewpoint. It's certainly can't be called a better representation of the Batman universe because it's not even been around a season to flesh everything out. I mean if you come to such a conclusion after 4 episodes then good for you I suppose but I can't share that opinion.

 

[shauner111]

Alright guys...im back...yes, the hater of this series. But i have to say something regarding this specific episode..

THIS...

is how it's done!!

For my personal tastes, the tone, the characters they used in this episode, how they were handled? This is what i wanted from the beginning. I didn't like the first few episodes at all and i pissed a few people off on here because of my bashing. I don't have a lot of faith in this series, still. Because i see more of the dumb villains, Scarecrow, Selina, more of this Montoya/Barbara nonsense being used in the future. But for right now, i finished this episode and did a small clap because this is what i wanted, and would continue with (the mob, Penguin, cops) if i was in charge.

Good episode. Now im looking forward to next week. Who knows if ill be disappointed or not, but im happy with this week.

 

[Rorschach2012]

The Penguin is probably my favorite part of the show. Robin Lord Taylor is perfect for the role.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Kane- what is your avatar from? It's really creepy

 

[Kane52630]

Kane- what is your avatar from? It's really creepy

From the cult classic, Halloween III.

 

[The Shape]

For my personal tastes, the tone, the characters they used in this episode, how they were handled? This is what i wanted from the beginning. I didn't like the first few episodes at all and i pissed a few people off on here because of my bashing. I don't have a lot of faith in this series, still. Because i see more of the dumb villains, Scarecrow, Selina, more of this Montoya/Barbara nonsense being used in the future. But for right now, i finished this episode and did a small clap because this is what i wanted, and would continue with (the mob, Penguin, cops) if i was in charge.

Good episode. Now im looking forward to next week. Who knows if ill be disappointed or not, but im happy with this week.

The tone, characters they used, and how they were handled -- all very much in line with what was done in the first three episodes...

 

[Frodo]

I'd say the issue with the show is more un-eveness. Its not the horrid abomination that some fans think it is, but its also not some great re-imaging other fans say it is. Its got some great elements like Bruce/Alfred, Penguin, the Mob, Bullock and Gordon, the rise of the freaks ,but then its got some pretty weak parts like Barbara/Montoya, Fish, the freak of the weeks, dialog, some characterizations, tonal shifts.

I think the main issue is the show finding its voice , which I think it eventually will. I think alot of their problems could be solved with the writing and maybe cutting back on all the storylines they have going on. I would suggest they get some of the writers from the Mentalist to maybe help out with the procedural elements and the dialog.

I thought it had a great pilot. The second episode wasn't that great, the third was much better, and the last episode was 50/50 imo. But again, its the first season so hopefully they'll work out the kinks.

 

[shauner111]

The tone, characters they used, and how they were handled -- all very much in line with what was done in the first three episodes...

Not at all. The tone was not even close to being as messy as the previous three, which had the goofiest villains ive seen in a while, constant winks to the audience with "cats", "riddles" and "penguins". They focused on Gordon, Maroni, Cobblepot, a new villain who was a huge improvement. Fish is always going to be this way, fine, it's over the top, but i wasn't as annoyed this time around. No Selina Kyle who always seems to be in the right place at the right time. No Montoya being a ***** for no reason. Some things could be unnecessary such as the girls chosen by Fish, but it's a mystery, and it could lead to something good or bad. The murders weren't goofy. The mayor was a little more involved. They at least attempted to move this Gordon/Barbara thing forward instead of just treating her like a bisexual pot smoker who is just nosey. For once i felt like she had a point in her argument. The Oswald/Jim stuff is moving along. Alfreds not being a dick to Bruce when he tells him he wants to do more detective work.

It was a solid episode. Of course there's still a couple of lines of dialogue that are hokey but it's better than before. McKenzie's acting is a little one-dimensional here and there but im giving it a good review.

Last weeks episode started off with a huge facepalm by me. That first "death" by the Balloon-Man was the goofiest thing i'd seen since Batman and Robin. This isn't a difference in tone, antagonists, etc? It is.

 

[Just_Human]

There were a couple of cringe spots-one in particular is when Maroni was talking about wanting payback. It sounded like something you would hear in an an old video game .

Haha I felt the same way

Felt like a scene straight out of GTA

 

[CapedCrusader14]

Easily the best episode so far this season and I was seriously considering not continuing the show. Arkham looked beautiful and perfect.