Gotham Gotham Season 2, Episode 3 "The Last Laugh"

Totally not that surprised in the back of my mind I still felt that Jerome was a Red Herring and the makers of this show said that multiple times that there could be a lot of Red Herrings when it came to the Joker. Im actually glad Jerome wasn't the Joker.
 
To me, this was a great episode and an excellent close to the first myth arc of the season, but the ending does have some weaknesses. I think they did go just a little bit too far into giant neon red herring territory with Jerome. He was so much the Joker that there's a sense of disappointment in him having such a final ending, which does combine with the ending to be a little bit too much of a "see, he inspires the Joker!" mentality to the reveal.

It's a similar issue to the ending of the Red Hood episode from last year; both did a great job building towards what you could presume would be a direct link to the Joker, only for both to be abruptly ended and go with the inspiration route. It's not a bad idea, but I think it would have been stronger to have an open ending to at least one of those threads, and show them coming together now. Perhaps Galavan will create the Red Hood gang using the imagery of the original gang and combining it with Jerome's theatrics to create the fertile land from which the Joker springs.

Having said that, I loved how economical, focused, and efficient this episode was with the cast. Having Alfred, Gordon, and Selina all involved in the situation did wonders for each character's screen time. I especially liked how they used Selina here; her appearance was actually important to the plot. Hopefully, bringing your plot points to occaisional confluences becomes a recurring element of this show's new format. We didn't quite have everyone join together here, but a bulk of the cast was involved in a way that mattered. More of this please.

Okay, on Galavan: I'm definitely smelling more of a Gates of Gotham vs Court of Owls theme with him and his family than Ra's. His mentioning of how his family made the foundation of the city seems more literal than metaphorical.
 
Yup. Anybody can be the Joker. Just like anybody can be Batman. Now people say that when the Joker eventually comes he'll be seen as a copycat of Jerome but Jerome lacked a important trait of the Joker. The clown motif. Sure he laughed but The Joker is much more grander, theatrical, and carrying a symbol of a clown. He would be the next step, the evolution of the idea, making him unique.

Batman Beyond had a different Batman and a gang of Jokerz, it's not new to canon. Earth Two had Martha Wayne as the Joker which is why I'm going with what someone said on another forum- Barbara isn't Harley, she's Joker :cwink:

I thought Jerome was a great Joker but I think it was kinda cool killing him off, like "nope, you didn't guess where that was going so try again".
 
i always have thought Joker was a few yrs older than Bruce. so i would assume around 17-18 in this universe..? good episode. this show is what it is.
 
Cue eyeroll over people pissing and moaning about the ending. It was symbolic, as far as I'm concerned, not literal. It takes the ridiculous "Anyone can be Batman" notion that Nolan tried to sell the audience and flipped it in such a way that it actually makes sense. In Gotham, really anyone can be this vicious killer. That doesn't mean that all those creeps we saw at the end will actually factor into the next handful of episodes. They're clear copycats and will amount to nothing in the end. When all is said and done, the true Joker will take that spark of inspiration and explode it exponentially.
 
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Maybe Nigma will find that Jerome is still alive & help him.
 
RIP Jerome, he was an interesting character. However, I kind of like the direction they are going in with the multiple potential Jokers. Joker is obviously more than just a kid with a laugh and a taste for the theatrical. Its not like Joker will just be a Jerome knock-off, any more than Batman is a secondhand Zorro. Whoever Joker is, he's going to take things to the next level.

All around good episode. They still don't seem to know what to do with the Selina character. Glad to have Harvey back in the game. Not super thrilled with how fast they are killing off characters (especially ones with great potential) but it does keep things interesting.
 
Cue eyeroll over people pissing and moaning about the ending. It was symbolic, as far as I'm concerned, not literal. It takes the ridiculous "Anyone can be Batman" notion that Nolan tried to sell the audience and flipped it in such a way that it actually makes sense. In Gotham, really anyone can be this vicious killer. That doesn't mean that all those creeps we saw at the end will actually factor into the next handful of episodes. They're clear copycats and will amount to nothing in the end. When all is said and done, the true Joker will take that spark of inspiration and explode it exponentially.
It made sense in tdkr. I know what the end of the episode meant. That doesn't change anything.

God bless you! God bless everyone in your life!
 
I thought it was a great twist IMO! I personally like my Joker to have no backstory. I liked the ending too. Oh well maybe I'm just easily pleased.
 
Good episode no doubt , but the last thing this show needs to do is get rid of interesting characters like Jerome , Joker or not. He was the Joker as far as i'm concerned . Then again alot of fans didn't like the idea of Joker having an origin so I guess those fans will be pleased.

I thought it was another bad move by the Gotham producers but they seem to constantly shoot themselves in the foot creatively, so I shouldn't be that surprised. But what's done is done, and I would hope from now on they drop the whole "who is the Joker" stuff and just focus on other future villains

Aside from the Jerome death, I really did like the episode. It was the first time imo that they've successfully blended the different versions of Batman on film and tv without it feeling jarring. The episode evoked the Nolan films, BTAS, Batman Forever, and even the 60's show all at the same time without it feeling all over the place as it normally does when they try to blend the styles.

All in all a great episode, it was just the resolution of the Jerome stuff that seemed like a big mistake to me.
 
Actually now that the ending has sunk in a bit, I'm conflicted. Again, I like my Joker with no backstory, BUT the fact that whoever becomes the Joker now is obviously going to be Jerome's 'successor' seems a bit off. The Joker as a symbol/idea is a one off. AHH so conflicted hahaha.
 
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So much *****ing and whining in this thread. :funny:

I enjoyed this episode.
Really liked that ending personally.
 
Cue eyeroll over people pissing and moaning about the ending. It was symbolic, as far as I'm concerned, not literal. It takes the ridiculous "Anyone can be Batman" notion that Nolan tried to sell the audience and flipped it in such a way that it actually makes sense. In Gotham, really anyone can be this vicious killer. That doesn't mean that all those creeps we saw at the end will actually factor into the next handful of episodes. They're clear copycats and will amount to nothing in the end. When all is said and done, the true Joker will take that spark of inspiration and explode it exponentially.
this
this
****ing this
 
So much *****ing and whining in this thread. :funny:

I enjoyed this episode.
Really liked that ending personally.

It seems those who liked it are moaning about those who didn't like it. The complaint about the episode seem to center around what happened to Jerome more than the episode in general. It seems overall, people liked the episode, but the split reaction is about the twist.
 
I had a blast with the episode overall, the reason why I personally am moaning at the ending is not because Jerome became a symbol, it was the over the top way it was shown at the very end with that montage. Seeing that random little kid cackle like a maniac while watching Jerome on tv just seemed so silly to me and kind of killed my buzz since I was loving the episode. I'm totally cool with Jerome leaving a legacy behind and even inspiring other crazy people. But I think the episode wouldve ended much better if it had cut out that silly montage of people suddenly going nuts and just cut straight to Jerome's creepy smile at the end. Just my two cents.
 
Well, this has been the best episode in some time.

Jerome was spot on for the Joker. His inflections, mannerisms, theatrics even some of the lines he used "ladies and Germs". In fact he was too spot on and whom ever they introduce to be the Joker might take some heat.

But other than that great episode.

Off topic, I have to say seeing Morena made me go back to watch Firefly.. what a beautiful woman.
 
I had a blast with the episode overall, the reason why I personally am moaning at the ending is not because Jerome became a symbol, it was the over the top way it was shown at the very end with that montage. Seeing that random little kid cackle like a maniac while watching Jerome on tv just seemed so silly to me and kind of killed my buzz since I was loving the episode. I'm totally cool with Jerome leaving a legacy behind and even inspiring other crazy people. But I think the episode wouldve ended much better if it had cut out that silly montage of people suddenly going nuts and just cut straight to Jerome's creepy smile at the end. Just my two cents.



Agreed. That's my problem with the ending. Not only the montage, but repeating the voiceover of Jerome's dad to really hammer the idea home.
 
I get the idea behind it and I think its a good one but, I dunno, that montage of scenes with the people just laughing manicly while watching Jerome on tv just seemed SOO over the top, like the show was trying to beat us over the head with its symbolism.

Gotham has never been the most subtle show.
 
I thought it was a great twist IMO! I personally like my Joker to have no backstory. I liked the ending too. Oh well maybe I'm just easily pleased.


Great episode. Do we really know the ending? Is Jerome dead, or not? Will Jim Gordon's girl cheat on him?

I think young Bruce took passed his biggest test. He's no coward. He'll confront evil, even if he's just 15 and un-armed.

Barbara who was one of the worst characters in the first season is suddenly very good.

And I'd love the Penguin's take on Jerome.
 
I wrote this earlier on another site.

Last night’s Gotham was a good episode though I was disappointed in the ending.

I think the writers have just shot themselves in the foot. They made a big mistake killing off Jerome.

Gotham can’t decide if it wants to be a prequel or an AU. They’ve killed off Essen, Maroni, got rid of Falcone, all characters who are around when Batman is active. Maroni is even the reason why Harvey Dent became Two Face. We are never going to see Batman on the show. Bruce is only 12/13 in-show, even if he becomes Batman at 18, that’s still 5-6 years away timeline wise (unless they plan to do a full costumed teenage batman, but logically Alfred wouldn’t allow it). Even if each season was set a year after the last season, we still wouldn’t see Batman until season 6 at the earliest. However season 2 is set only a month after season 1 so Batman is a long way off for Bruce and the audience. There will probably be lengthy time skips somewhere down the line due to the fact that Bruce’s actor isn’t going to stay a boy forever. It also isn’t guaranteed that Gotham will even reach four seasons let alone six. As an AU, Gotham works better. You’ve still got your unchangeable events such as the Wayne murders and Bruce becomes Batman, but there’s more freedom to play around with the characters. Yes you’ve got to get them from point A to point B but how they get there is entirely up to creative decisions.

Jerome has now become an unintentionally sympathetic character. In his first appearance, The blind fortune teller, he seemed crazy because he murdered his mother just because she nagged him to do the dishes. However, with the reveal that she used to beat him as a child with whatever man she had at the time, The blind fortune teller just became Jerome’s snapping point. The Galavans broke the inmates out of Arkham, and manipulated and used them as pawns to achieve their goals. Tabitha was constantly watching them from afar. She was there when they threw the guys off the buildings, she was there at the school bus incident and shot one of them when he got caught. I think Theo planned to kill Jerome from the start of the episode in order to look like a hero. The “Jerome’s waiting outside, make sure he stays focussed” is a dead giveaway. Jerome has always been in the room, but now suddenly he’s being excluded. Jerome’s backstory and line “I’ve met a guy dad, he says he’s going to make me a star” becomes kind of tragic. Jerome was an abused kid who was told by his own father (though he didn’t know that at the time) that no one cared about him, that he didn’t matter. essentially that he was worthless. After he snaps and is sent to Arkham, suddenly he meets someone who tells him that he’s important, that he’s going to matter, that he’s going to be remembered. Of course Jerome would go along with Theo’s plan because at it’s core, it gave him something that he had so desperately craved as a kid, the feeling of being wanted. Also Theo praised the maniax for their actions so again that plays into the desire of wanting to be acknowledged as a person (even if the actions were warped and evil).

Jerome said he was 9 and that his mother had only finished “round 1” of “boozing, boning, and beating up Jerome” with the guy she met. He was 18 when he murdered her. So for 9 years, Jerome put up with it and everyone in the circus turned a blind eye. The one person Jerome did tell what was going on turned round and essentially told him that no one cared about him. It is almost certain that his mother’s abuse continued. The tragedy of that situation is had someone actually taken notice of what was going on and stopped it, Jerome could’ve walked a very different path than what he ended up on. His flair as the magician suggests that maybe he missed his vocation.

Another thing that makes me think Theo set Jerome up to die was that the trapdoor that Barbara escaped through wasn’t that big. It wouldn’t have fit two people through at the same time meaning Jerome and Barbara would’ve had to go first and second. Considering Barbara wasn’t the one Theo killed to look like a hero, it suggests that Barbara was always intended to escape whilst Jerome wasn’t. Theo apologised to a dying Jerome whilst stabbing him, saying it wasn’t what they “rehearsed” but as explained above, I think Theo always intended for Jerome to die, Tabitha knew it and Barbara’s lack of surprise makes me think Barbara knew it too, that’s why Jerome was kept out of the room, that’s why the trapdoor was so small, and that’s why everyone seemed to calm and unbothered by Jerome’s death. That was the plan. Also what made Theo Galavan choose those 6 particular Arkham inmates for his “team”?

The main sticking point for me about Jerome’s death was the fact he was so obviously the Joker. He had all the Joker traits and mannerisms. Teasing that anyone could be the Joker was fine throughout season 1, but when they fleshed out Jerome’s character beyond his first appearance, he was obviously the Joker before he took up the Joker moniker, and having him and Bruce interact now before either of them became their monikers actually sets up an interesting dynamic for their future run in as Batman and the Joker.

Not having Jerome be the Joker actually diminishes the potential Joker in the Gotham universe. Joker dislikes anyone trying to steal his “act” so to have someone become the Joker Because they copied someone else’s act is an insult to the character. Joker is the original and the one and only Joker, Jerome was the original and now Gotham’s actual Joker is just going to be a copy-cat because Jerome did it first.

I get that the writers can’t have Jerome running free all season because that would make Gordon look incompetent, Jerome’s actor has commitments to Shameless, and the writers want to tell other stories this season as well. But why didn’t they have Jerome taken back to Arkham and put in solitary confinement which would’ve probably just added more crazy to the point where he becomes the fully fledged Joker? You’ve kept Jerome alive so you can use him for future appearances, you’ve kept him out of the way so he doesn’t steal the limelight from other characters, and you’ve set up the connection between Batman and the Joker. It’s a win/win on all fronts.

Even if the reason Jerome was killed off was because of the possibility that he might “talk” and reveal Theo Galavan’s duplicitous nature, there is an easy way to write around that and still keep Jerome alive. Either have Jerome refuse to talk because he finds it more amusing to see Gordon running around figuratively blind (perhaps solitary confinement could be the punishment until he talks) or since Theo has covered his tracks well and is now seen as the city hero, who would seriously believe the word of a madman over the denial of a hero who saved a room of people from said madman. Maybe Gordon is the only one who believes Jerome and then is quest for the season is to try and find a shred of evidence to prove Theo Galavan masterminded the Arkham breakout. You’ve then got the Gordon against the city dynamic and perhaps even added contention between Bruce and Gordon because Gordon suspects Galavan whereas Bruce trust Galavan and even looks up to him as a hero.

By killing off Jerome, the writers have missed a golden opportunity and wasted a perfectly good character.

Onto other bits of the show:

Barbara- Barbara is so much more fun now that she is evil and it seems like her relationship with both Theo and Tabitha is going to become a source of contention between the siblings. Barbara is delusional in thinking she and Jim will get back together and you can see why Leslie is concerned for her own safety since Barbara views her as the “other woman”.

Leslie- I like Leslie, she’s one of the more realistic characters on the show. She’s concerned for her own safety from Barbara instead of just shrugging it off yet she’s not cowering in a corner and letting it dominate her life. She’s concerned about Jim but she’s letting him have his own space and work things through on his own without smothering him. It’ll be interesting to see where the Jim/Leslie relationship goes (Again, the show has gone AU in this regard).

Bruce and Alfred- I actually didn’t mind Bruce this episode. His role supported the main story without taking time away from it which I think is the best way to handle Bruce’s character until he starts becoming more interesting in the Batman stakes. Alfred’s crush on Leslie was adorable and his disappointed resignation that she was in a relationship with Jim was funny.

Jim and Bullock- Their partnership works and you could believe how Jim would become almost obsessive about making Jerome pay for killing Essen. I also liked how Bullock went to Penguin and warned him about what he would do to him if Penguin messed around with Jim.

Penguin- Penguin did not approve of Jerome’s way of doing things. It could have set up an interesting rivalry between the two plus if Penguin found out that Theo was the puppet master then you’ve got that added dimension as well. But once again it’s a wasted opportunity.

Selina- I don’t think the writers know exactly what to do with Selina. She disappears and reappears randomly. There’s no storyline for her. She hasn’t even mentioned Ivy even though those two hung out a lot last season.




LOL

For sure. The main villain for now made himself a hero.

I never thought about Jerome's death being a fake murder but I suppose it might be possible ( however remotely) that the knife was coated in something that would make it appear Jerome was dead. However, I think the most easiest explanation is that he is dead.
 
I was really pleased with the episode, especially the ending. Other favorite elements include:
-the possible Powers or Gates connection Galavan has
-the Wild Things (film) tension with Galavan, Barbara, and Galavan's sister
-the composition of the fundraiser scene: it reminded me of a 1970's issue of Detective Comics

The only aspect of the episode I did not like was the return of the puppy love Bruce has on Selina. The scene achieved nothing.
 

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