BvS Henry Cavill IS Superman - - - - - - - - Part 22

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I won't lie that I would have enjoyed MoS more if 1) a bit more attention had been given to character development, 2) the characters were rendered a bit warmer and more relatable, 3) color wasn't desaturated/blue-gray tinged. I would have. Those to me are things that would have made the film more enjoyable for me personally.

Our reasons are pretty much same. :cwink:

Also i didn't like Clark always find himself in the middle of a major accident. I mean drowning, tornado, oil rig... What is this, Final Destination? :o
 
Well stated. I don't totally agree but good points.

The color palette is an issue for me. Not that they have to go bright but go lighter. The dark colors were an issue in SR for me. Maybe my eyes aren't as good as others, but in the cave scene from SR with Superman crawling I had a hard time making it out. Things were too dark. Take a snap of that scene and lighten it up some and wow. You see things in the scene you hadn't before.

MoS has a kind of washed out, dreary look that seems to suck the life out of people. For example a still from the film compared with a warmer version via Picasa:

lois-lane-in-mos-desaturated-and-resaturated.png


Tbh, literal darkness is an issue for me (as you describe) in the Nolan Batman trilogy! There are so many scenes that are set at night, in the dark, that especially given the speed of the action, it is sometimes hard (for me) to tell what the heck is going on. I don't want to have to work that hard to figure out what is happening in a scene visually. But maybe that's just a sensory perception deficit that I have personally.
 
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Our reasons are pretty much same. :cwink:

Also i didn't like Clark always find himself in the middle of a major accident. I mean drowning, tornado, oil rig... What is this, Final Destination? :o

Well, another way of looking at those things is that they're intended mostly to illustrate how this new Superman is finding himself, or giving a context to that self-discovery. For example, the two highly controversial scenes involving Jonathan that ask whether Clark should save lives versus expose his identity as an alien (the bus of school children and Jonathan's life in his death scene) I think serve mainly to frame the type of world that the Superman archetype is entering in the DCEU: one in which there are not perfect solutions, and often a choice is forced between two bad ones. A world in which it is impossible to always find some sort of superhuman workaround to make everything turn out alright.
 
For MoS it has a kind of washed out, dreary look that seems to suck the life out of people. For example a still from the film compared with a warmer version via Picasa:

lois-lane-in-mos-desaturated-and-resaturated.png


Tbh, literal darkness is an issue for me (as you describe) in the Nolan Batman trilogy! There are so many scenes that are set at night, in the dark, that especially given the speed of the action, it is sometimes hard (for me) to tell what the heck is going on. I don't want to have to work that hard to figure out what is happening in a scene visually. But maybe that's just a sensory perception deficit that I have personally.

It might worked better for a movie like X-Files than Superman. Who knows maybe they wanted it that way because it gives kinda sci-fi feeling...something little cold, distant, alienesque feeling.

Still i'd prefer this dry look over straight to DVD/television look of MCU :oldrazz:
 
I won't lie that I would have enjoyed MoS more if 1) a bit more attention had been given to character development, 2) the characters were rendered a bit warmer and more relatable, 3) color wasn't desaturated/blue-gray tinged. I would have. Those to me are things that would have made the film more enjoyable for me personally.

But that said, I'm also an apologist for why those things weren't done. I personally loved the world-building in MoS same as I do for the Fellowship of the Ring (both book and film). There are some very coherent and detailed symbolic mythic and archetypal themes that I'm positive are deliberately woven throughout this film,* that sets up BvS and the the story arcs beyond into the JL. MoS launches a very grand vision: it sets the stage for superheroes as myths and archetypes being relocated into our modern real world--and in order to break free from the past mold for Superman, it is a tense and gritty world of difficult choices. We see Superman as an exemplar of that in this film. To my eye, Superman is also reframed in this film to start (i.e., the character is for sure going to grow and evolve in subsequent films) more as a lost and wandering soul in the tradition of a Greek demigod hero. It is not a world of good feels.

In order to achieve that Snyder sacrificed telling a story that could have been more of an intimate, in-depth character study filled with warmth and relatabilty (such as Captain America: The First Avenger, let's say). Tonally it would have been difficult, although not at all impossible. But length-wise, though, to do that would have given us a 3+ hour movie, i.e., if the other elements I just mentioned are to remain intact. And overall I'm glad those themes are there--if one or the other has to be sacrificed I'd rather keep the world-building and mythic theme elements. The broader and deeper agenda for this approach to storytelling of superhero myths is very satisfying to me. I'm so glad that direction was taken.

So that takes care of (1) and (2) for me. YMMV, obviously--and clearly, roughly about half of the fan base doesn't like it (or bitterly hates it). If you don't like it, I'm probably not going to change your mind. I can only tell you why I like it and hope that you can see how it could be appreciated that way.

For (3) above... I think the color palette is probably intended to emphasize that Superman, as an archetype, is now being reborn into a more serious world endued with weighty themes and consequences to actions, where perfect choices often won't be available, i.e., that is morally gray. So I can appreciate the film conceptually that way. It doesn't ruin my experience of the film. But do I like it aesthetically? Not at all. And I actually don't see it as necessary, either. I do one day hope to see a version of MoS with the color's corrected in order to compare, in any event.

Anyway, when I watch the film now my focus is on appreciating how it reinvents the Superman myth. But I still find that there is a surprising amount of personal character development to be seen for Superman, and that he and other characters do have some warmth and relatability to them. It just gets kind of overshadowed by the weightier thematic stuff and the color desaturation. I guess what I'm saying is that if Snyder had found a way to keep everything that I love about this film conceptually, and render it a bit warmer way that personalized the characters more, I would love it even more. But even as it is, with the admitted flaws it has I still 95% love what is there.

*We even have a Joseph Campbell quote literally woven into Superman's iconic "S" insignia!

Character development and reliability are two sides of the same coin. One flows from the other.

At the end of MOS I was not as into the characters as I should have been but that was because character development did not get enough attention.
 
I think Clark & Lois relationship can be handled a lot better. Also Jonathan Kent. That damn Jonathan Kent. I find that tornado scene ridiculous.
 
Character development and reliability are two sides of the same coin. One flows from the other.

At the end of MOS I was not as into the characters as I should have been but that was because character development did not get enough attention.

Yep, I agree. I am willing to forgive that, though, for all the riches that I feel the film does still have, though.

Not to get too carried away, but it ironically mirrors the main tension in the movie. Superman is dealing with a world in which tough choices have to be made with less than perfect outcomes. The film itself sacrifices the elements that we're talking about here in order to give us the broader and deeper themes that the universe will be built upon. The resulting deficits in the film sort of mirror the central dilemma that the character faces.
 
Whether the Empire cover was just sloppy marketing work or actually has significance for the film, Cavill be playing at least 3 roles in BvS. Superman, knightmare Superman and Clark Kent.

How he interprets each "role" and differentiates between them will be interesting to watch.
 
I think Clark & Lois relationship can be handled a lot better. Also Jonathan Kent. That damn Jonathan Kent. I find that tornado scene ridiculous.

The tornado scene works for me when I view it as illustrating that in this more serious and realer (is that a word?) world that the Superman archetype is inhabiting, bad things are certain happen that are unfair, and choices are forced in which there is only a less bad outcome. For me, it all works toward that archetype having to be reborn into this new world and find a new identity within it. I mean, yes, that is a littler cerebral, I admit. But as a device for that purpose, it passes muster for me. It's a little jarring, but I think Snyder wants to jar us with it.
 
Whether the Empire cover was just sloppy marketing work or actually has significance for the film, Cavill be playing at least 3 roles in BvS. Superman, knightmare Superman and Clark Kent.

How he interprets each "role" and differentiates between them will be interesting to watch.

Yes! Definitely! Very much looking forward to that too.
 
I think Clark & Lois relationship can be handled a lot better. Also Jonathan Kent. That damn Jonathan Kent. I find that tornado scene ridiculous.

I'm going to have to take a few deep breaths... Because that scene was downright stupid. It made both father and son look like morons. Its just another attempt for a writer to be dramatic and Shakespearean that ends up just being laughably bad. There are a few things I have to rewrite in my head to enjoy MOS: recasting Lois Lane and the tornado scene are at the top of the list.
 
Can we please not talk about the tornado scene again in the HENRY CAVILL thread.
 
MoS has a kind of washed out, dreary look that seems to suck the life out of people. For example a still from the film compared with a warmer version via Picasa:

lois-lane-in-mos-desaturated-and-resaturated.png


Tbh, literal darkness is an issue for me (as you describe) in the Nolan Batman trilogy! There are so many scenes that are set at night, in the dark, that especially given the speed of the action, it is sometimes hard (for me) to tell what the heck is going on. I don't want to have to work that hard to figure out what is happening in a scene visually. But maybe that's just a sensory perception deficit that I have personally.

... which was probably a good thing as the fight choreography was so bad. In the well lit shots it was plainly obvious that punches were landing inches away from any target.
 
I'm going to have to take a few deep breaths... Because that scene was downright stupid. It made both father and son look like morons. Its just another attempt for a writer to be dramatic and Shakespearean that ends up just being laughably bad. There are a few things I have to rewrite in my head to enjoy MOS: recasting Lois Lane and the tornado scene are at the top of the list.

(shrug) I like the tornado scene.
 
I'm going to have to take a few deep breaths... Because that scene was downright stupid. It made both father and son look like morons. Its just another attempt for a writer to be dramatic and Shakespearean that ends up just being laughably bad. There are a few things I have to rewrite in my head to enjoy MOS: recasting Lois Lane and the tornado scene are at the top of the list.

If I may ask, what is your beef with Amy Adams? Do you just not like her as an actress, or do you just feel she was miscast as Lois Lane?
 
If I may ask, what is your beef with Amy Adams? Do you just not like her as an actress, or do you just feel she was miscast as Lois Lane?

Usually it's because she's not brunette for some, although I'm not saying that's the reason on this occasion. Personally for me Amy Adams Lois Lane is one of the best versions of the character. I'd only put Erica Durance over her.
 
If I may ask, what is your beef with Amy Adams? Do you just not like her as an actress, or do you just feel she was miscast as Lois Lane?

Look at her list of actors she want's for Lois. Amy Adams is a better actress than all of then. :funny:
 
Natalie Dormer, the weasel nose chick for starters.
 
MoS has a kind of washed out, dreary look that seems to suck the life out of people. For example a still from the film compared with a warmer version via Picasa:

lois-lane-in-mos-desaturated-and-resaturated.png


Tbh, literal darkness is an issue for me (as you describe) in the Nolan Batman trilogy! There are so many scenes that are set at night, in the dark, that especially given the speed of the action, it is sometimes hard (for me) to tell what the heck is going on. I don't want to have to work that hard to figure out what is happening in a scene visually. But maybe that's just a sensory perception deficit that I have personally.
The one on the right reminds me of Smallville.
 
Dossn't matter, Amy Adams is here to stay. If you don't like it. That's your issue. Can't make someone like something they don't only they can do that
 
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