The Dark Knight Rises Ideas For Incorporating Characters Into the Nolanverse

[Rattlehead]

It has to be the Penguin!!!

The Penguin already has his own site.

Penguin Munitions

http://www.penguinmunitions.com

Isn't this the new Batman viral website?

 

[Melkay]

Can anybody tell me why BlackMask is a better character (in any sense) than Cobblepot?

Please.

 

[thedrizzle59]

as a character to be used in a movie, there is so much more you can use with Black Mask. And also its never been done before on a big screen (so you got originality). Black Masks back story mixed with Bruce's has so much there its crazy. In a Nolan Film Black Mask/ Roman Sionis is a perfect movie villain. But if your thinking more toward comics, then yes Cobblepot is comedic, more flushed out and a genuine batman villain!

 

[Harley Quinn]

even though i absolutely hate the mad hatter, he could easily fit in with a few tweaks.

he has OCD and suffers from major paranoia. his obsession with alice in wonderland could stem from the idea that he hates what people of gotham have become. he misses the innocence and child-like qualities in people. meanwhile, he focuses that frustration on parents... he thinks they raise them wrong (maybe a tie into a friendship-bond with gordon's son?) he's creepy, maybe even a pedo.
ever see that movie "little children" with kate winslet? Jackie Earle Haley (cast in the Watchmen) played a child molster trying to fit in with the world, but the world denied him... him ending up doing some really, insane choices at the end of the film. that's how i picture the Mad Hatter to be in a Nolanverse movie.

 

[theJ0K3R]

You would have to take in the fact that the villian(s) would have to be popular to people not well into Batman. The big names, Riddler, Penguin, Catwoman, Mr. Feeze (unlikely), etc.

Also the villian has to be just as epic as Heath's Joker, or it's going to fail. It's sad that Heath isn't around, because how can you follow that act, and the biggest Batman villian of all time? It's hard to follow the Joker and be as successful as The Dark Knight.

The only way I could see it happening is to have both The Riddler and Penguin. Also to have actors like Johnny Depp in the roles.


OFF-Topic: Does anyone know if Daniel-Day Lewis could play a Batman villian and who it could be? I think he could play a Mr. Freeze, but I doubt we will see a Mr. Freeze in a Nolan movie.

 

[Melkay]

as a character to be used in a movie, there is so much more you can use with Black Mask. And also its never been done before on a big screen (so you got originality). Black Masks back story mixed with Bruce's has so much there its crazy. In a Nolan Film Black Mask/ Roman Sionis is a perfect movie villain. But if your thinking more toward comics, then yes Cobblepot is comedic, more flushed out and a genuine batman villain!

Let's get this straight... we're talking about a character who, like Penguin before him, represents the wealthy corporate villain, a reflection of what Bruce Wayne could do with all his resources if he turned out to be corrupted, and who has penchant for trying to attain the elite status that comes with his family name by defeating a business rival, Wayne... all those are things that Cobblepot did before him.
What's left to the character? He wears a black skull mask... and is called BlackMask.
Don't make me laugh. There is an actual concept that comes with the word "originality" and you respect that. Besides, the actual Penguin hasn't been done in any Batman film. And I'm sure you get my point.

Penguin is a character that lends itself to many things that are not comedic at all. Remember Phillip Seymour Hoffman's character in MI3? That was the Penguin. A chubby internation arms dealer with the clean public image of a socialite who attends expensive parties, but also the coldest vilain in the series, an strategic genius who knows how to use technology in his favor.

If someone should rejoin the almost dismantled Gotham mob organization, that should be the Penguin, the calm, collected and ruthless mobster who will not stop at anything to gain power, anm strategic genius capable of not succumbing at the batman, and one who will have so much high-tech weaponry at his disposal that Batman won't have his technological edge anymore over the mob.

That is a formidable foe. And since Oswald was first than Sionis, and Sionis has no better things to offer, Oswald should go first.

Yes, I am a proud Penguin fan. Let's do justice to the character once and for all.

 

[kid dropper]

Aw but dood a black skull hed is like totally xtreme dood!

 

[Melkay]

^ Do not mock the dumb for they will not thy jokes.

 

[ScarecrowMan666]

Can anybody tell me why BlackMask is a better character (in any sense) than Cobblepot?

Please.

Well my dear Melkay, it's probably because Penguin sucks. Out loud. I mean he's the worst of Batman's Rogues, and I'm not talking about his skills either. He's boring, he's fat, and the man thinks he's a flightless arctic bird. So what if he's rich, and has all this pull with the mob, that does not make him an interesting character. I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone, especially someone as intelligent as you would want The Penguin as the villain in the next Batman movie. Can you tell me in any sense why that is so?

 

[hatebox]

Nolan has said he doesn't care much for the Penguin, and I don't blame him. The only way you could make him an interesting character is... well, by making him totally different.

 

[Mistah K88]

Let's get this straight... we're talking about a character who, like Penguin before him, represents the wealthy corporate villain, a reflection of what Bruce Wayne could do with all his resources if he turned out to be corrupted, and who has penchant for trying to attain the elite status that comes with his family name by defeating a business rival, Wayne... all those are things that Cobblepot did before him.
What's left to the character? He wears a black skull mask... and is called BlackMask.
Don't make me laugh. There is an actual concept that comes with the word "originality" and you respect that. Besides, the actual Penguin hasn't been done in any Batman film. And I'm sure you get my point.

Penguin is a character that lends itself to many things that are not comedic at all. Remember Phillip Seymour Hoffman's character in MI3? That was the Penguin. A chubby internation arms dealer with the clean public image of a socialite who attends expensive parties, but also the coldest vilain in the series, an strategic genius who knows how to use technology in his favor.

If someone should rejoin the almost dismantled Gotham mob organization, that should be the Penguin, the calm, collected and ruthless mobster who will not stop at anything to gain power, anm strategic genius capable of not succumbing at the batman, and one who will have so much high-tech weaponry at his disposal that Batman won't have his technological edge anymore over the mob.

That is a formidable foe. And since Oswald was first than Sionis, and Sionis has no better things to offer, Oswald should go first.

Yes, I am a proud Penguin fan. Let's do justice to the character once and for all.

I had to register just to give this guy some applause. I also am a Penguin fan (We're in the minority) and I think ol' Oswald needs to be done some justice. Say what you want, but the "Penguin" in Batman Returns was the Penguin by name only. I wish to see this criminal done as the SANE, pompous, aristocratic mobster he is. The man who can order a man to get brutally tortured to death and then go to the opera. Most of those who dislike the character use the "boring" excuse (which I don't see...but then again it's a matter of opinion), and he's too inane and silly... He did a lot of bird themed crimes back in his heyday, but then again all of the villains had some stupid gimmick at one time or another.

 

[Melkay]

I think ol' Oswald needs to be done some justice. Say what you want, but the "Penguin" in Batman Returns was the Penguin by name only. Most of those who dislike the character use the "boring" excuse (which I don't see...but then again it's a matter of opinion), and he's too inane and silly... He did a lot of bird themed crimes back in his heyday, but then again all of the villains had some stupid gimmick at one time or another.

Most of these people can't go over the many awful interpretations of Penguin they're used to. Most of these people can't imagine a Penguin that's different from the one in The Batman. That's why they always keep hailing Burton's Penguin as the second revelation, the best possible way of making him an interesting character. Disgusting.

I wish to see this criminal done as the SANE, pompous, aristocratic mobster he is. The man who can order a man to get brutally tortured to death and then go to the opera.

Wow. If you're a girl, don't make plans for next year cuz' I'm marrying you. I don't think I've seen anyone with a grasp of what Penguin can and should be in these forums. I can probably count them with the fingers of one hand.

 

[The Guard]

Melkay! Back to back!

Even the 70's and 80's interpretations of The Penguin were more interesting than Black Mask could ever be. Hell, Burton's Penguin was more interesting than Black Mask could ever be.

Black Mask isn't half the character Penguin is. The whole point to Penguin is that he doesn't seem like a threat...and he very much is. He's got all kinds of psychological elements to him that beat the crap out of Black Mask's "parent issues". The Penguin's attempts to conceal his monstrous elements behind a veneer of humanity and charitability hiding a crime kingdom...anything Black Mask has done, odds are, The Penguin has probably already done it, and moved on to doing it better.

Boring?

Really?

We're talking about a guy with trick umbrellas here...

And people, stop talking about Catwoman as an assassin. That's completely missing the point her character. You want assassin in Penguin's employ, use Floyd Lawton, AKA Deadshot.

 

[ThePoisonPuppet]

Has anyone done any good Penguin manips yet? I still have a hard time imagining him not as a cartoon.

 

[kid dropper]

I like Penguin as well, because I am foremost a classicist and i think he has potential if he can be correctly portrayed as an elegant gentleman with beastly looks and tendencies. But i dont think hes up next and heres why.I think since the vacant love interest slot (and todays news which i do believe holds a bit of legitimacy, being as how we keep hearing nolan is a lot farther along than he is letting on)pretty much guarantees Selina's place, and I ve heard nolan and goyer want to tackle the villains previously unused and unknown to the public, I think Black Mask will take the primary villain spot. Especially because of Black Mask' s relationship to selina, I mean having catwoman blast him in the face and bats making the choice to either let it slide or haul her in is great drama. Also i doubt Nolan would tackle the same two villains as Burton did in BR.

 

[Rasputin911]

Penguin should have a scarecrow-type role. Not the lead villain, but important. And he should specifically be an arms dealer/money launderer rather than a generic boss. Like Lau in TDK...but with balls

 

[ReallyCoolGuy]

The Penguin- This isn't a new idea. In the Batman Returns he just a monster basically. I think he would be better if he was a mob boss. He doesn't go by Penguin but that's what his rivals call him and what not.

I like that... I don't see why he has to be deformed (like in Batman Returns) or "quack" all the time (like in Batman: the Movie). He's just a regular member of organized crime with a nickname due to his appearance and waddle...

i.e: Joe Pesci in his prime lol

 

[ThePoisonPuppet]

I think he needs something to make him stand out. You can make him disgusting and decadent without being a monster though. I'd even go so far as to give him some truly outrageous umbrellas (machine guns, or daggers in them) a collection of thousands of birds. Mostly, I want to see him done like these guys.

Spoiler

 

[Melkay]

I disagree. He can stand out by his manners, not only for his appearance and i think that is a very superficial way to approach the character. In Begins, Crane stood out without even doning the mask. In TDK Maroni stood out without even doing anything, just by the smirk.

His actions will make the Penguin stand out. His cold behaviour, his calm demeanor, his intelligence, his ruthlessness... that. Not a big fake nose and a disgusting face. This is Nolan's Batman, not Dick Tracy. Just a guy in an expensive smoking with glasses and an umbrella. No hat, and definetely no cigarrete holder. Normal cigar will be just fine.

EDIT: ... oh, and the aviary. And the trick umbrellas... but nothing cartoonish/burtonian like a helicopter or an hypnotizer. Blades and a machine gun will be just fine, maybe something more techy.

 

[Mistah K88]

Well, you don't think Cobblepot could afford quite a few exotic and expensive birds? I'd like to keep with the clasic tuxedo, top hat, and monocle look because in a way he is overdoing high class...plus Oswald is one of the only people who have a monocle nowadays. He doesn't wear his hat everywhere of course, but it is still a I mean Joker said that the city deserves a better class of criminal... The man feels superior to a good chunk of people, he should at least dress the part. His "deformity" blocking him from TRULY joining the Gotham elite wouldn't really be a physical one. This "deformity" is that he's a criminal, simple as that...being an imperious a-hole helps out too.

"Penguin" is just a nickname like "Godfather" is to Vito Corleone. Penguin is more of a cerebral threat and would be a very different mobster from Falcone and Maroni. Those two relied on the corruption of Gotham and fear. Penguin manipulates and works around the law where he becomes untouchable. He wouldn't really be intimidated by Batman...

His trick umbrellas cannot open, they are just things disguised as umbrellas. Each umbrella has a specific function, so you won't see a knife pop out after the gun function.

 

[Melkay]

Yeah, I really like the birds things. Just as regular pets, of course, nothing too far fetched like trained birds or something like that.

No top hat.
And no monocle.
Nobody can wear a top hat and a monocle without looking stupid. Or BEING stupid, for that matter. I want a very classy and intelligent guy who is well regarded in Gotham's top socialite circles... and a guy who wears a top hat with a monocle is...well, ridiculous. And a ridiculous guy is rejected from these circles. And a Penguin who is not in the high spheres of power is.. well, a character with less power.

Besides, this guy is the contrast to the freaks. He's sane for Christ's sake, he doesn't have a costume and neither should he. He doesn't even go to Arkham when he's arrested, but to Blackgate instead.

Cobblepot feels superior because he IS superior. Because he's the first mob boss in town that's gonna stand up against Batman, make him sweat, and yet not be catched by the bat. He always is gonna have a cover-up, an alibi, and the press is gonna be on his side. He's gonna take all the fractioned mob gangs and he's gonna bring them together.

And why not have a multi-trick umbrella? The guy is a weapons manufacturer, and he's supposed to have techonology on par with Wayne Enterprises. The multi-trick umbrella isn't that difficult.

 

[Mistah K88]

Good question on the umbrella thing...I just thought that it would be odd for the umbrellas to have more than one function...Oh well, It doesn't really have to be explained like Batman's stuff does BRING IT ON!

I do want him to wear a monocle atleast...I mean...he's one of the few famous fictional people who wear one. I don't really see that stuff as costume like but I suppose you are right...I would still like him to have atleast a monocle, throw that bone to me.

I would hope to see some of Bruce's fake little lifestyle a bit more... With the high class people of Gotham. Oswald could talk down to Bruce in an ambiguous way at some gala or something.

 

[hegele]

To be honest i like the colorful characters being interpreted for Nolan's Gotham, not the "bad-ass" characters that are easy. The assassins and such. Black Mask, Deadshot, even Bane. These guys have always been totally boring to me.

 

[ThePoisonPuppet]

I agree the hat isn't needed, and the monocle probably isn't either, but you could make up for it with some little half reading glasses he puts on from time to time.

The cigarette holder is fine as well I think. I mean plenty of people use those. I have a professor I know uses one and famed author Hunter S. Thompson used one as well. (Not that these people are anything like the Penguin, I'm just saying they are not unheard of today). Mostly Pointless though...Arguing between a cigarette holder or cigar really seems like kiddy stuff..

The umbrella I think could have anything short of a helicopter, hypnotizing machine, grenade launcher or laser.

I still think he should be disgusting, like constantly sweating profusely, obese and foul mouthed but the thing about him is, he is popular and loved DESPITE this. He is rich and powerful and he knows exactly where to put his money so it makes him look best. He also knows exactly what to say in public. He is cold, calculating and ruthless of course, but I just really like the aspect of him being sleazy and vile and still always coming out smelling like a rose...A good model for how I picture him, attitude wise, is Richard Nixon, Boss Tweed, or even Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich

 

[StorminNorman]

Has anyone done any good Penguin manips yet? I still have a hard time imagining him not as a cartoon.

Just google Philip Seymore Hoffman Capote. Its not a manip, but it doesn't need to be.

No top hat.
And no monocle.
Nobody can wear a top hat and a monocle without looking stupid. Or BEING stupid, for that matter. I want a very classy and intelligent guy who is well regarded in Gotham's top socialite circles... and a guy who wears a top hat with a monocle is...well, ridiculous. And a ridiculous guy is rejected from these circles. And a Penguin who is not in the high spheres of power is.. well, a character with less power.

I can live without the hat, but the monocle is no problem at all.

And why not have a multi-trick umbrella? The guy is a weapons manufacturer, and he's supposed to have techonology on par with Wayne Enterprises. The multi-trick umbrella isn't that difficult.

I don't want Penguin to be a Weapon's manufacturing giant, keep him as a crime boss/club owner who has a set of cleverly hidden weapons so that he can walk the streets of Gotham without fear from cops or criminals.

To be honest i like the colorful characters being interpreted for Nolan's Gotham, not the "bad-ass" characters that are easy. The assassins and such. Black Mask, Deadshot, even Bane. These guys have always been totally boring to me.

I am going to side with Guard about Black Mask being a stupid man's Penguin, but Deadshot is an interesting villain. I can live without Bane easily, he can be a pretty good villain but he isn't a must. Deathstroke is a guy that fits the category you diss who I think would be an interesting villain.