The Dark Knight Rises Ideas For Incorporating Characters Into the Nolanverse

[Melkay]

I don't want Penguin to be a Weapon's manufacturing giant, keep him as a crime boss/club owner who has a set of cleverly hidden weapons so that he can walk the streets of Gotham without fear from cops or criminals.

Why do you want to make him less dangerous? The weapon manufacturing thing is a huge edge over Batman's technological prowess. To stripe him off that would be to make him less threatening.
Besides, why would a rich guy need firearms to "walk the streets"? What is this, NRA advertising? "Protect the 2nd amendment"? The Penguin doesn't "walk the streets", he probably has a Rolls Royce with a driver, and some heavily armed bodyguards.

The umbrellas, of course, are hidden weapons that add extra security, but only for those moments when he has to be alone and still kill some punks. Those few moments when he hs to get blood on his own hands.

I imagined scene a long while ago: a mob members meeting in a storage facility during a rainy day... thugs outside check that no one brings guns to the meeting, and Cobblepot doesn't have any... he just enters with his umbrella.

In the poorly light storage, mobsters are arguing about who controls what zone. Next thing you know, that guy wearing a smoking doesn't like the deal he's being offered and every mob boss at the meeting is killed by machine-gun fire coming out of that umbrella. After everyone's dead, the guy slowly closes his umbrella again, takes a cigarrette from his coat and lights it, and as he's walking away he hears a slight breathing... turns around and sees that one of the mobsters isn't dead yet, Cobblepot walks right to him and says, in a very calm voice...
"After all the years you've been in this city, you haven't learned a single thing about organization"
... he checks the umbrella-gun, has no bullets left...
"And without organization, without unity, can any of you stand against the bat?"
... he looks down at the dying mob, who is still coughing blood and brething heavily...
"No. No, you can't. While I'm making plans, you're all acting as burdens. The good news is that, from now on, I will take care of everything."
... a blade come out of the umbrella, and he finish the job. Takes a white handkerchief and wipes the blade as he comes out of the place, and says:
"You're welcome."
and puts the blade back in the umbrella.

 

[Ledlunar]

I really wouldnt care for penguin,,, he couldnt keep a third movie from sinking below how great The Dark Knight is... they need a intresting villain, with how TDK left off I think Catwoman and the Riddler both work well.. catwoman almost as a female batman copycat.. but who doesnt suck like the guys in TDK and I don't know if there is a manhunt for batman in the next one, I think the fact that Reese was going to reveal who batman is will have to be dealt with I mean Lots of people probably want to kill Batman after all the killing they think he did.... So If they want to go with that too I think the riddler works cause he is pretty much always asking who is batman?... I do hope they recast Joker though,, if they had original plans to use him they should Im sure Heath would want his character story to keep going he created the magic there are still many good talented actors who could pull off recreating what he did.. he left the foot prints someone else just has to walk in them

I don't they need somehting more with him in my books otherwise its

movie 2 joker comes in kills a **** load of people makes dent go nuts then just goes to jail and is gone forever....? meh Either dont make 3 or bring joker back

 

[Ledlunar]

if cobblepott was able to say after all your years in this city he would have been a big deal in begins and obviously jokers meeting with the mobsters in the dark knight... he would be like goldfinger with weapons.... get someone exciting who can be great in a nolan film

 

[Melkay]

Let me reply politely:

Penguin says that because he's new in town, because he's a foreigner. I don't see any good reason to not have the Penguin be a british guy, but anyway, if the next villain is big enough he shouldn't be from Gotham. Except maybe Catwoman.

Penguin should always be one more villain... not the only one, and not the main one.

Don't even get me started on the Joker recast. It was hard enough to take you seriously after the "Catwoman as a female Batman copycat" bit. I'd like to make a "Joker recast" quarantine in the original thread and leave it there.


On to more serious matters, does anyone have a decent copy of this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JvWyFt4AdQ

 

[Ledlunar]

well catwoman pretty much is a batman copy cat read year one, he inspired her and it already showed batman inspired plenty of people to do what he does in TDK

 

[Ledlunar]

I imagined scene a long while ago: a mob members meeting in a storage facility during a rainy day... thugs outside check that no one brings guns to the meeting, and Cobblepot doesn't have any... he just enters with his umbrella.

In the poorly light storage, mobsters are arguing about who controls what zone. Next thing you know, that guy wearing a smoking doesn't like the deal he's being offered and every mob boss at the meeting is killed by machine-gun fire coming out of that umbrella. After everyone's dead, the guy slowly closes his umbrella again, takes a cigarrette from his coat and lights it, and as he's walking away he hears a slight breathing... turns around and sees that one of the mobsters isn't dead yet, Cobblepot walks right to him and says, in a very calm voice...
"After all the years you've been in this city, you haven't learned a single thing about organization"
... he checks the umbrella-gun, has no bullets left...
"And without organization, without unity, can any of you stand against the bat?"
... he looks down at the dying mob, who is still coughing blood and brething heavily...
"No. No, you can't. While I'm making plans, you're all acting as burdens. The good news is that, from now on, I will take care of everything."
... a blade come out of the umbrella, and he finish the job. Takes a white handkerchief and wipes the blade as he comes out of the place, and says:
"You're welcome."
and puts the blade back in the umbrella.

I dont like this its like them trying to do the whole joker mob meeting again with a fat guy with a hidden automatic in his umbrella... he's not cool enough to go in a mo them down, joker did it cool with a pencil.. it would be a lame scene

 

[Melkay]

Only that Catwoman... after being "inspired"... doesn't do what Batman does. She's not a vigilante, she doesn't beat criminals in he spare time. She's a different animal. She's different from him. Essentially different.

Besides, Batman has probably been a catalyst for every major villain in his rogue gallery. He's the very reason for the existence of the 'freaks'. That doesn't count. You need to realize what sets her apart, and how many things are left out of that little "pretty much" of yours.

 

[Melkay]

I dont like this its like them trying to do the whole joker mob meeting again with a fat guy with a hidden automatic in his umbrella... he's not cool enough to go in a mo them down, joker did it cool with a pencil.. it would be a lame scene

Yeah, I guess you're right... it's pretty much the same scene. Of course, after Joker did the cool pencil scene (killing the bodyguard of one boss) he went from there to 'look for a job' and only made it cool again with the grenades act, which served him to walk away unharmed. Penguin is looking for a total massacre, to take full control.

But yeah, one mob meeting, two mob meetings... same trash. We need to kill them all one by one in a montage of all their deaths..., oh, wait, Nolan already did that with Judge Surillo and Commissioner Loeb.

It's tough coming up with something new, isn't it?

 

[Ledlunar]

I guess i didnt word that to well when i said pretty much, I was just stating that she was a reaction to batman... inspired by him.... Lots of batman villains do exist because of batman but she is more intresting cause she really walks the line of good/bad, she does have her own different agenda but of course she does, know one knows who batman is so to just know of batman in the news and whats printed can make someone go out and behave much different then batman as they dont know he's a rich guy with all this money at his disposal she could be like a robin hood stealing from corrupt and rich people to better herself in her fight on crime, and who knows where she stands on not killing

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yeah, I guess you're right... it's pretty much the same scene. Of course, after Joker did the cool pencil scene (killing the bodyguard of one boss) he went from there to 'look for a job' and only made it cool again with the grenades act, which served him to walk away unharmed. Penguin is looking for a total massacre, to take full control.

But yeah, one mob meeting, two mob meetings... same trash. We need to kill them all one by one in a montage of all their deaths..., oh, wait, Nolan already did that with Judge Surillo and Commissioner Loeb.

It's tough coming up with something new, isn't it?

Melkay have you seen "The Long Good Friday" with Bob Hoskins?

Theres a scene in that where he has all his men bring in the rival gang bosses to a abbatoir or dock area with loads of meat and fish, all hanging upside down on the hooks. Something like that could be pretty cool for the Penguin. Maybe one of his fronts is down at the docks, could further link him to a "Penguin" where all the fish is coming in from the trawlers and what not. He has all his rivals hanging up-side down on the hooks, he then proceeds to kill them one by one or something like that.

 

[Ledlunar]

well no i just couldnt see penguin being very deadly or cool, he a fat guy man, wh wants to see batman fighting short fat guys with crazy guns, penguin would totally have a lot of goons

 

[Ace of Knaves]

well no i just couldnt see penguin being very deadly or cool, he a fat guy man, wh wants to see batman fighting short fat guys with crazy guns, penguin would totally have a lot of goons

No what i mean is that is a suitable way for the Penguin to operate. He has his night clubs and fancy restuarants but the place where he gets down to real "business" could be his property at the docks. An abattoir or freeze house whatever they call them. Could make for a great scene where Oswald is at a formal do, and is contacted by his men informing him that they have some rival mob bosses down at the abattoir. He then goes down there in his big fur coat and top hat complaining and moaning about having to leave all the Gotham elite or whatever. As we know Penguin strives to be seen as an legal, elite business man in Gotham. He wants to be the "IT" boy if you will.

 

[perry normal]

I think Robin could work if done right. Some of the ideas tossed around here for re-tools on how Bruce actually comes to take him in are pretty good. The big thing to me is that Batman not just needlessly endanger the life of this kid, which is the most glaring logical problem against Robin. Taking time would be important, I think.

My take is to introduce Robin as a subplot (secondary to the main story about Black Mask perhaps) in the next film-
-As was suggested before, Batman fails to save the Flying Graysons and takes in Dick out of guilt.
-As Bats continues to investigate Zucco (who in this version, is working for Black Mask), Dick is conducting his own rather amateurish attempts to do so.
-This culminates with Dick getting hurt and Batman saving him (a la Dark Victory)
-In the lead up to the climax, Bruce reveals his identity to Dick in the Batcave (again, a la Dark Victory).
-After the climax, and whatever exposition is needed to wrap up the film, we see Dick swearing an oath to fight injustice, etc etc etc.
-In a classic Nolan scene echo (i.e. Alfred bringing Bruce supper after his parents died vs. Alfred bringing Bruce breakfast after Rachel died), the last line of the film is Bruce, perhaps unintentionally, quoting Ra's Al Ghul "Are you ready to begin?"

Robin works on a lot of levels. Most important is hope. Batman saved Gotham's hope at the end of TDK, but does he have any himself? The love of his life is dead. The man he thought could take his place was corrupted and is now also dead. He now feels trapped in this prison of Batman. He can never escape. He starts to become a real Frank Miller-type Batman, just breaking limbs and crippling criminals to punish them and releive his mounting frustrations. When they take Dick in, however, Alfred perhaps is the first to notice the youngster has the same look of determination and rage in his eyes that young Bruce did. In time Bruce comes to realize this. He takes him in to train him, not only so he will have a replacement someday if needed, but also because he knows that if he doesn't, Dick will attempt to do so anyway, and without training, will probably get himself killed. Being able to make a positive influence on the youth's life heals Bruce's pain and guilt somewhat.

Secondly, Robin being a talky, smart ass kid could add some good humour in contrast to grim and brooding Bruce.

The important thing is not to rush it. I hated that Chris O'Donnell's Robin just shows up and is, conveniently, already a martial arts master. If the third film ends with Robin's training beginning, we can see the completion of that training in a fourth film (4-5 years later). In the meantime, in the fourth film, he acts as previously suggested as a Oracle type character, working the computers from the Batcave and feeding Bruce information. Perhaps the fourth film ends with him (having proven himself in some sort of climactic battle i.e. the previously suggested ideas of mobsters attacking Wayne Manor) finally accompanying Batman on a patrol.

 

[Mistah K88]

Selina Kyle would be a rich woman who steals for the thrill of it. Breing chased around by Batman just lights her fire.

I'm debating whether the Gothamites should know that Oswald is a criminal and just can't prove it (rumors floating around). Or if they should be completely in the dark about it. Cobblepot should be letting people know he's a legitamte businessman now. Joker burned half the mob's money, so Penguin is the only one with the cash to control the mob. Heck, even in the Adam West Batman movie, all of the villains used the Penguin's resources.

 

[Victarion]

Melkay have you seen "The Long Good Friday" with Bob Hoskins?

Theres a scene in that where he has all his men bring in the rival gang bosses to a abbatoir or dock area with loads of meat and fish, all hanging upside down on the hooks. Something like that could be pretty cool for the Penguin. Maybe one of his fronts is down at the docks, could further link him to a "Penguin" where all the fish is coming in from the trawlers and what not. He has all his rivals hanging up-side down on the hooks, he then proceeds to kill them one by one or something like that.

I'd like to see this scene included if Penguin is introduced as a mobster.

 

[The Guard]

The top hat wouldn't be neccessary, but if he shows up a scene at a party or event in a tuxedo and tophat, I don't think it would matter. He could have a monocle (reading monocole, perhaps?), he just wouldn't wear it all the time. And there's no reason not to stick with the large nose, etc...just wouldn't be quite so elongated and cartoony.

 

[sabetoonth]

i like that alot

 

[jcady519]

i was thanking if they used black mask he could start off as a nobody then something happens he gose insane and by the end of the movie he is gothams only crime boss. ofcourse he would have to kill his compitien ( i was thanking great white shark) and tortures an important person or two. also he would not get cought or killed in the end and save that for the next film if there would be one

 

[jcady519]

I was thalking about this with my friend the other day and we came to the conclusion that most of batman's villans a just normal humans there ether gangsters or something is wrong with them mentily so most could work and the ones not like the ones listed above could be tweked to fit. for example clay face dose not have to have clay powers he could be the orginal for the comics just a guy in a mask killing people, or manbat could be a nut who puts on a knock off batman custome field his theeth to points and gose out trying to drink people's blood ofcourse he would probley get sick from that.posin ivy could be a eco terrorist who thanks plants talk to her and she tries to posin gotham

 

[BestGirl]

I was thalking about this with my friend the other day and we came to the conclusion that most of batman's villans a just normal humans there ether gangsters or something is wrong with them mentily so most could work and the ones not like the ones listed above could be tweked to fit. for example clay face dose not have to have clay powers he could be the orginal for the comics just a guy in a mask killing people, or manbat could be a nut who puts on a knock off batman custome field his theeth to points and gose out trying to drink people's blood ofcourse he would probley get sick from that.posin ivy could be a eco terrorist who thanks plants talk to her and she tries to posin gotham

Man-Bat would be one of the hardest characters to interpret in the Nolanverse. Maybe he could be like a bizarro Batman and dress up like a bat and commit random crimes. He could even be an evil vigilante who killed his victims instead of turning them into the police.

 

[ScarecrowMan666]

I think you guys are taking this realism thing a little too seriously. I mean come on, Manbat a knockoff Batman? Clayface some ordinary serial killer wearing a mask? You're essentially bastardizing two of the cooler Batman Rogues. To make them any different than they are intended to be would cheapen both characters. Why is that so hard to realize? I would rather them not be in the movie at all than for them to be drastically changed needlessly.

 

[ScarecrowMan666]

I would much rather see Black Mask than Penguin. For one thing Black Mask is actually interesting, whereas Penguin, Well I've made my feelings pretty clear about fat bird man.

 

[The Guard]

Riiiight.

 

[Melkay]

dude, BlackMask is f*** cooool. penguin's just a fat bird man, but blackmask looks creppy, and is slim! he can do more push-up than stupid penguin, dude! blackmask all the way, no some ******ed, fat, extra from Happy Feet.

I wish BlackMask would look at me with those beautiful eyes...*sigh*....

 

[Tonicky]

The Penguin could work if he ditched the Top hat and Penguin was only a nickname used by his Thugs under their breath.

Black Mask could work But he's to much like the Joker.