The Dark Knight Rises Ideas For Incorporating Characters Into the Nolanverse

[theJ0K3R]

But does outside fans of Batman even know who Black Mask is? You have to sell the movie.


But I would love to see a Daniel-Day Lewis' Riddler. That would be awesome. Keep having great actors (not celebrity actors, real actors if you know what I mean) play the villians.

 

[jcady519]

I think you guys are taking this realism thing a little too seriously. I mean come on, Manbat a knockoff Batman? Clayface some ordinary serial killer wearing a mask? You're essentially bastardizing two of the cooler Batman Rogues. To make them any different than they are intended to be would cheapen both characters. Why is that so hard to realize? I would rather them not be in the movie at all than for them to be drastically changed needlessly.

i admit it the manbat idea was kinda dumb but i was talking about the original clayface basil karlo how who was a b list actor whent mad when he heard his movie was being remade put on the mask of the film's villian and started killing the cast and crew.

 

[mrbrownie]

Let's get this straight... we're talking about a character who, like Penguin before him, represents the wealthy corporate villain, a reflection of what Bruce Wayne could do with all his resources if he turned out to be corrupted, and who has penchant for trying to attain the elite status that comes with his family name by defeating a business rival, Wayne... all those are things that Cobblepot did before him.
What's left to the character? He wears a black skull mask... and is called BlackMask.
Don't make me laugh. There is an actual concept that comes with the word "originality" and you respect that. Besides, the actual Penguin hasn't been done in any Batman film. And I'm sure you get my point.

Penguin is a character that lends itself to many things that are not comedic at all. Remember Phillip Seymour Hoffman's character in MI3? That was the Penguin. A chubby internation arms dealer with the clean public image of a socialite who attends expensive parties, but also the coldest vilain in the series, an strategic genius who knows how to use technology in his favor.

If someone should rejoin the almost dismantled Gotham mob organization, that should be the Penguin, the calm, collected and ruthless mobster who will not stop at anything to gain power, anm strategic genius capable of not succumbing at the batman, and one who will have so much high-tech weaponry at his disposal that Batman won't have his technological edge anymore over the mob.

That is a formidable foe. And since Oswald was first than Sionis, and Sionis has no better things to offer, Oswald should go first.

Yes, I am a proud Penguin fan. Let's do justice to the character once and for all.

I'm with you man.
I believe in Oswald Chesterfield Cobblepot!


I always thought he would one of the few people not physically intimidated by Batman. It needs to show some talent in fencing, since I prefer a hidden blade in his umbrella (ella..ella..ella.. oh oh oh) rather than a machine gun. He could spar with Batman, at least enough to escape, or until Batman makes him "squeal" what he needs. And I would think he should dress extremely fancy, there has to be something different about his suit/tuxedo, nothing that may confuse him with a butler or a waiter. I'm A-OK with the monocle, and even if I love the Top Hat, I would understand if it gets left out.

 

[sabetoonth]

which i dont really think could carry a movie i'm not disin or anything i really like clayface but it wouldnt take much investigating to find a digruntled actor with a grudge against people remaking his movies

 

[CaptainClown]

which i dont really think could carry a movie i'm not disin or anything i really like clayface but it wouldnt take much investigating to find a digruntled actor with a grudge against people remaking his movies

That would be the lamest motive to kill people ever...

 

[BestGirl]

I think you guys are taking this realism thing a little too seriously. I mean come on, Manbat a knockoff Batman? Clayface some ordinary serial killer wearing a mask? You're essentially bastardizing two of the cooler Batman Rogues. To make them any different than they are intended to be would cheapen both characters. Why is that so hard to realize? I would rather them not be in the movie at all than for them to be drastically changed needlessly.

Well, Clayface and Man-Bat are unusable in their current form in the Nolanverse. I wouldn't want to see either guy, quite frankly. I'm just trying to come up with some way for these guys to fit into Nolan's world. Consider it an intellectual exercise. t:

 

[DigificWriter]

I decided to divide this into 'top-tier' villains and 'secondary villains'.

Top-tier villains
The Penguin: I've long felt that the most interesting version of The Penguin was the 'Burton Penguin', and would like nothing better than to see a variation on that version of the character incorporated into the 'Nolan-verse'; it would make the character so much more interesting than just your average 'mobster', yet give Nolan and Co. a way to seemlessly integrate him into the existing mythos of their Bat-verse with very little trouble. My ideal 'Nolan-ized' Penguin is a partially physically deformed man whose fortunes rival that of Bruce Wayne's, but who has built said fortunes illicitly. His involvement in the story would see him try and assume part of the mantle left behind by Harvey Dent, while at the same time undermining Gotham society from within the criminal underworld. This would not only allow him to fill the even larger void in Gotham's mob community left after the events of The Dark Knight, but give Nolan and Co. a way to facilitate Batman's re-emergence as the hero Gotham both needs and deserves.

Catwoman: Out of all of Batman's 'top-tier villains', Catwoman needs very little modification from her traditional comic book roots to fit into the 'Nolan-verse'. However, the way I think she can best be utilized is as a secondary villain akin to the Scarecrow in 'Begins' (IOW, as a way to demonstrate how Batman's fugitive status - and the aftermath of the Joker's rampage - has left Gotham's underbelly open to colorful and inventive 'master criminals').

The Riddler: The Riddler is another one of those Batman villains whose origins and mythos would need very little modification to fit into the 'Nolan-verse'. Unlike other people who've tried to modify the character, though, my ideal 'Nolan-ized' Riddler is an amalgamation of the 'Frank Gorshiin' Riddler from the 60s TV series, the 'Jim Carrey Riddler' from Batman Forever, and the DCAU Riddler; a brilliant, if slightly 'off-kilter' man whose eccentricities - coupled with tragedy - have led him to become a master criminal. I think his ideal role is, like Catwoman, to demonstrate the full effects of what The Joker was able to accomplish in The Dark Knight, although he could also work as a more 'primary' villain (ala the Joker and my 'Nolan-ized' Penguin).

Secondary Villains
Clayface:
'Batman Begins' proved that it's not impossible for some of Batman's more 'out-there' antagonists to be treated in a realistic fashion, and, given the technology levels of today's society, it would take very little for a 'Nolan-ized' version of the Clayface character to work. As with The Penguin and the DCAU version of the character, a 'Nolan-ized' Clayface would need to be someone with physical deformities - either 'natural' or caused by circumstance - and his 'powers' would need to be a result of whatever it was he was using to cure his deformities or physical imperfections. For the sake of believability, you could also tie in the nature of his 'powers' to the Fear Gas epidemic from 'Begins'. In terms of finding a role for the character, I think he's best left to being an 'escalation example' villain (ala Catwoman).

Scarface: Given the direction that Nolan and Co. have gone with their Bat-verse, I'm rather surprised that we haven't heard anything about the possibility of the character of Scarface showing up as part of the new film franchise, since he's almost tailor-made for the universe that Nolan and Co. have envisioned, especially in light of what happens in The Dark Knight. As with The Riddler, Scarface could work as either an 'escalation example' villain or a primary villain, depending on the storyline. He's also one of those villains - ala The Joker - whose exact origins wouldn't even need to be explained.

Harley Quinn: If there's one secondary Batman villain who could really come into their own in the 'Nolan-verse', it's Harley. The WB's 'Birds of Prey' TV series had its share of problems, but one of the best things about it, IMO, was its utilization of Harley Quinn, and its explanation of why she was doing what she was doing. A 'Nolan-ized' Harley would need to either be a doctor that The Joker met in Arkham, or else someone who came to Gotham in the aftermath of his (the Joker's) rampage and became obsessed with uncovering his motivations and delving into his psyche, leaving her open to manipulation by him. She could then branch off on her own in an attempt to 'finish what he started', making Batman's life even more difficult, or else be part of a plan for him (The Joker) to break out of Arkham and continue his rampage in person.

 

[DigificWriter]

I posted this in another thread, but I'm going to cross-post it here in more detail. I've long been a fan of The Penguin as a character, and as a concept, but by far my favorite 'iteration' of the character has to be the 'Burton Penguin' from "Batman Returns". Given what Nolan and Co. did in The Dark Knight, anyone who comes into the next Batman film as a primary antagonist (ala The Joker) is going to need something that both sets them apart from what's come before, but that also allows Nolan and Co. to seemlessly integrate them into their universe. A variation on the 'Burton Penguin' is, IMO, the perfect way to accomplish both of these things. My ideal 'Nolan-ized' Penguin is a partially physically deformed man whose fortunes rival that of Bruce Wayne's, but who has built said fortunes illicitly. He comes into Gotham in the aftermath of The Joker's rampage, and sets himself up as someone who could possibly take up part of the mantle left behind by Harvey Dent, although he is simultaneously trying to undermine Gotham society from within the criminal underworld.

By making The Penguin physically deformed, you immediately set him apart from your average Gotham mob boss or socialite, and by having him playing 'the ends against the middle', you create a situation wherein Batman can re-emerge as the hero that Gotham both needs and deserves.

 

[GoldGoblin]

-Catwoman:A catburglar in a museum stealing a valuable item.Batman shows up to stop her,we see that she knows how to fight,that she is infact a challenge for Batman.At the end when you think Batman has the upper hand when he gets her in a half nelson,Catwoman raises one of her arms and shoots out a little stream of smoke that goes into Batman's face.

Batman's grip loosens as he falls to the ground unconscious from the sleeping gas(cat nap).When Batman wakes up,Batman sees that he isn't in his Bat suit,the Catwoman took it along with the valuable item that she came to get from the museum.

But she also knows his secret identity.Catwoman uses the Batsuit and customizes it to make her a Catwoman suit with high tech gadgets.

 

[Artistsean]

I would like to see Penguin done in a way that makes him like a hard core mob boss. In the wake of the Joker he has risen to be the most powerful crime boss in Gothem. He should be a scary mob guy, like a Tony Soprano type.
He could be a response to the Joker and Batman, the escalation of crime. He is not only a mob boss but he conducts business as viciously as the Joker react havoc.
Penguin could even be a side character like the mobsters in the Dark Knight (only sort of showing a new breed in mobster, sort of like the transition from regular mob bosses to monsters like the Joker taking over the crime families of Gothem. Again its escilation. Like Batman, and like the Joker, crime bosses are becoming more extreme.)
One of his quarks is that he loves to dress fancy. Tux and top hat. But his shape makes him look like a penguin, hence the nick name.

Another idea is to have the Penguin be a Night Club owner who is a crime boss secretly, showing how the criminals are hiding now but also showing how Gothem City is still corrupt.

(my first idea makes Penguin more of a threat I think.)

Has anyone seen the Psychology of Batman?
Its a History channel documentry on the psychology of Batman (who would have guessed).
I comes on the Dark Knight on Blue Ray, but was shown on the History channel too.

 

[ScarecrowMan666]

I would probably be most happy if Penguin never made an appearance in one of Nolan's movies. It seems like alot of people think that because Penguin, Catwoman, and Riddler are some of Batman's most known rogues that they must be in the movie. Nolan may very well throw in a left field choice like he did with Ras Al Ghul. I mean he's well known in the comics world, but the average joe had no clue who he was until Begins. That's why I think Black Mask would work really well for the next one. It would give the character more popularity, and I think he would fit Nolan's grim Batverse very well.

 

[Artistsean]

I don't think they should include Penguin because he is known, I think he would work. He is basically human (I don't mean the deformed Burton version), crime boss, and like most of Batman's villains that work best, he is twisted and has soime mental issues, and is sort of a mirror of Bruce.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

I pretty much know they won't appear, but I've always felt Hugo Strange and Mad Hatter provide some of the most psychological threats and modus operandi. Hopefully a Batman film less restricted may focus on one in the future.

 

[Melkay]

It seems like alot of people think that because Penguin, Catwoman, and Riddler are some of Batman's most known rogues that they must be in the movie.

Yes, that's exactly the logic. And I support that.

Nolan may very well throw in a left field choice like he did with Ras Al Ghul. I mean he's well known in the comics world, but the average joe had no clue who he was until Begins.

Ra's al Ghul is not an odd choice at all, in the comics his character is almost as famous as the Penguin.
The really, really average joe doesn't have a clue of anything beyond Batman, Joker and Catwoman, and maybe Alfred. Some people remember the Riddler and the Penguin from the sixties series, but I got to see that most people in the audience didn't even know who Two-Face was. Some fade isolated voices recognized the character ONLY after he tossed the coin to kill Wuertz. It was incredible.
When it comes to comics, there's a huge level of recognition between Ra's Al Ghul and someone like Deathstroke, for example. Or between Deathstroke and Anarky.... (I haven't forgotten about that).

So Riddler, Penguin and Catwoman remain as the most probable picks.

That's why I think Black Mask would work really well for the next one. It would give the character more popularity, and I think he would fit Nolan's grim Batverse very well.

He wouldn't fit as much as the Penguin, since Cobblepot can be played more low-key than Sionis (who wears a black skull mask and leads a cult, after all).
Besides, more popularity is exactly what I wouldn't give to the character. Not only I believe he is popular enough already, but I don't believe too much in his potential. But that's a preference thing, of course.

 

[ThePoisonPuppet]

I prefer Penguin over Black Mask, but what it really comes down to me it is aboutwho works better for the plot and tone of the film. I don't like this format of trying to tell stories around characters we like. I think it leads to people trying to cram too much into something and sacrificing story for random "lets show off how cool this guy is" moments.

I'd rather have a story that needs to be told picked, and then sit down and find characters that work for it. Ultimately you might have to make some changes to some characters with this method, but I think it works better to make the overall best movie.

 

[Melkay]

I prefer Penguin over Black Mask, but what it really comes down to me it is aboutwho works better for the plot and tone of the film. I don't like this format of trying to tell stories around characters we like. I think it leads to people trying to cram too much into something and sacrificing story for random "lets show off how cool this guy is" moments.

I'd rather have a story that needs to be told picked, and then sit down and find characters that work for it. Ultimately you might have to make some changes to some characters with this method, but I think it works better to make the overall best movie.

I wholeheartedly agree. But the problem is that Sionis and Cobblepot are too interchangeable. They both represents things like greed and corruption of power and they're boths leaders taking over the mob who are also rich business rivals to Bruce Wayne. Whereas Penguin comes off as more pragmatic and plotter and Black Mask as more vindictive and zealous, they truly have the same function in a story despite their character differences. For one same Story, they would always have the same Role.

Biggest difference people are looking is their visuality, and I feel that while Black Mask's visuality is more exciting, people are not noticing how divorced that look is from his actual role in the story. Yes, it looks more "badass" than the Penguin ("lets show off how cool this guy is" kind of moment) but his looks are also more divorced from his role than Penguins, who is the ultimate representation of corrupting power and greed.

Penguin is more of an icon of his role, and I rather like that he doesn't look so badass, because it grants him a more unassuming appearance... one that is likely to go into background with his actions, which would be more surprising that if he were...say, wearing a big black skull mask.
Black Mask's looks not only are divorced from his role, but also take preponderance over it most of the time.

 

[Artistsean]

But, it sounds like, Both Penguin and Black Mask are some of the villains who would transfer well into the films with little to no changes.
Were as characters like Freeze (who I love as a character) wouldn't fit or work well in the Nolan films.
I too would rather see Penguin, I think he would fit better too. Not only because his looks and such, but also because I think he could fit better into Nolan's overall vision for Batman. (Plus he was talked about on the "Psychology of Batman" which was like Nolan's guide to the Batman character and villains.

I also think that the Riddler and Catwoman would fit best into Nolan's overall vision. And with the way that Nolan does it, I think he could fit all three into one film and still have it work.

 

[[A]]

I meant, make him some random, human, serial killer.
Not a super villain. Make him the actor who wears a clay mask and kills people. But not some major threat, someone battle just stops quickly.

Sold.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Sold.

I don't think you realize the epicness of that post!

 

[[A]]

Probably not!

 

[Shemtov]

Mr. Freeze:
he is a man named Victor Freis.
Hevolontereed for an experiment frozen by Gotham Scientests that involved being cryogenicly frozen for 2 years.
however, when he woke uup he was permanitly scared.
he could not get a job and so toke revenge on The scientests and and also the people of Gotham who would not hire him.
he uses a Formaldehyde dart gun that freezes people in place when hit.


he wears a suuit like this:
http://69.90.174.246/photos/display_pic_with_logo/135580/135580,1197382403,2.jpg

 

[xtiano]

if you want to make a real mr freeze just take his tragic origin. mix it up with a severe case of one of these diseases

http://yourtotalhealth.ivillage.com/sun-heat-allergies.html?pageNum=1#1

give him a cool looking suit that somewhat resembles this.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/2008/0203-cooling_suit.htm

and as for weapons somethign to do with putting people in cryogenic suspension or something to do with CO2 and you have yourselves your mr freeze

 

[Jekyll Faygo]

Child murderer Jervis Tetch targets little blond girls named Alice. Watch "M" and see what potential a similar character could have. A snapshot of him prompts reporters to dub him "The Mad Hatter"
Jeff Daniels or Timothy Spalding would be perfect.

 

[BobJM]

I think you mean Timothy Spall. I like him for the role, as well.

 

[Jekyll Faygo]

Yeah, Spall, I was trying to think of that forever! Could be a good way to open the film. Batman's is tracking him while simultaneously avoided the police who keep closing in on him.