The Dark Knight Rises Ideas For Incorporating Characters Into the Nolanverse

I think The Riddler should start out as a struggling detective in the police/CSI force who's partner is Essen...Who Gotham police hire to find out who Batman is...Detective Nashton...Then like can interrogate Gordon...Gordon starts to like Essen...Grdon gets divorced...Essen leaves the field...Gordon tells Nashton that he has one more crack at figuring out who Batman is...Tries to pen Batman to Wayne...No evidence though...Nashton goes into a downward spiral into depression or something...Makes the persona...The Riddler...To continue his work on figuring who Batman is...Sends evidence or clues or riddles to Gordon and the police on Batman...In secret...

Basically...He's a crappy detective...Who loses his job and continues his work under a different persona...The Riddler...

I made this off the top of my head...Thought i could work...Thoughts?
 
That sounds like the Ratcatcher idea I pitched. Instead, Otis was an informant working for the Feds. Then he develops the Ratcatcher persona after Bruce is arrested so he can kill him. He ends up trying to lure him out instead.

Yeah... only that I read your idea, and they have nothing to do at all. And the Riddler idea is better.

I read your comments from the Third Title Thread... you REALLY like to think outside the box, don't you?
 
I think The Riddler should start out as a struggling detective in the police/CSI force who's partner is Essen...Who Gotham police hire to find out who Batman is...Detective Nashton...Then like can interrogate Gordon...Gordon starts to like Essen...Grdon gets divorced...Essen leaves the field...Gordon tells Nashton that he has one more crack at figuring out who Batman is...Tries to pen Batman to Wayne...No evidence though...Nashton goes into a downward spiral into depression or something...Makes the persona...The Riddler...To continue his work on figuring who Batman is...Sends evidence or clues or riddles to Gordon and the police on Batman...In secret...

Basically...He's a crappy detective...Who loses his job and continues his work under a different persona...The Riddler...

I made this off the top of my head...Thought i could work...Thoughts?

Want a diagnosis? It's a rare condition called "having Harvey Bullock in the top of the head"?

You described Bullock almost word-by-word. You just liked the idea of Riddler being a crappy detective, but that plot would be too boring, and too focused on his perspective, as opposite to being focused in Batman's perspective, that's how should be.

You want a disillusioned detective? Put Harvey Bullock in you script draft (or whatever you do) and actually make him sympathetic towards the cause of agent Nigma. Maybe he can even help Nigma behind Comissionner Gordon's back. It's not a bad character at all, at can be definitive on giving Nigma some breach or leverage inside the Police Force, when Gordon opposes him. He's one of the cops that would never trust a masked vigilante like Batman, and wants to help Nigma... of course, when Nigma turns out to be the Riddler, Bullock will have to repent for what he did... redemption theme all over again.

The Riddler can't be a crappy detective. He's supposed to be one of the smartest characters in Bat-world.

That's my diagnosis :word:
 
Want a diagnosis? It's a rare condition called "having Harvey Bullock in the top of the head"?

You described Bullock almost word-by-word. You just liked the idea of Riddler being a crappy detective, but that plot would be too boring, and too focused on his perspective, as opposite to being focused in Batman's perspective, that's how should be.

You want a disillusioned detective? Put Harvey Bullock in you script draft (or whatever you do) and actually make him sympathetic towards the cause of agent Nigma. Maybe he can even help Nigma behind Comissionner Gordon's back. It's not a bad character at all, at can be definitive on giving Nigma some breach or leverage inside the Police Force, when Gordon opposes him. He's one of the cops that would never trust a masked vigilante like Batman, and wants to help Nigma... of course, when Nigma turns out to be the Riddler, Bullock will have to repent for what he did... redemption theme all over again.

The Riddler can't be a crappy detective. He's supposed to be one of the smartest characters in Bat-world.

That's my diagnosis :word:

I put The Riddler in Bullocks place...Because...We don't need Bullock if The Riddler can be him...

...I forgot to mention that everyone looks down on Edward, especially Bruce...Edward starts to hate Bruce...And wants to pen Batman to Bruce...Because he's very egotistical...

...It's reverse Joker...The Riddler has nothing to threaten Wayne with, with all his smarts!
 
I put The Riddler in Bullocks place...Because...We don't need Bullock if The Riddler can be him...

...I forgot to mention that everyone looks down on Edward, especially Bruce...Edward starts to hate Bruce...And wants to pen Batman to Bruce...Because he's very egotistical...

...It's reverse Joker...The Riddler has nothing to threaten Wayne with, with all his smarts!


So... it's reverse villain.
You know that the villain must be some kind of threat to the protagonist, don't you? Robert McKee says that in crime thrillers there must be an obligatory scene... the moment when the villain has the protagonist at his/her mercy and it's about to destroy him. Both Ra's and the Joker have had Batman at their mercy in both movies... even Two-Face shot him and Scarecrow gassed him and set him on fire.

What's your man Edward there planning to do? Embarass him?

You still need Bullock. You need a cop that hates and distrust the Batman and puts everything forward to chase him. That cop is there for a reason, to extrapolate to all the cops that also distrust Batman. Montoya is there for the oppsite reason. To show cops inside the GPD that actually want to help those meddling Feds that came along with Nigma (Ellen Yindel and his 'Batman Task Force') is telling a lot about the human beings that are under Gordon's command.

Plus, it's being faithful to the comics.

And no director in his sane mind would actually make a character who wants to pen Batman to Bruce out of a hatred for Bruce... just to make him realize that "Wow, Wayne REALLY IS Batman! What were a the odds?".

Any more ideas?

...and just to get it out of my chest, I really hope you're not projecting into that alternate Riddler version of yours.
 
...Naw...It realy was just off the top of my head...I made it up as I went along...Thought it would be alright...Although it kind of sucks...

...This is why I stated earlier that...Maybe he should hook up with Scarecrow for an intimidation factor...Really a man in green suit who likes riddles and is super smart...Isn't that menacing...Or terrifying...Uh...Thanks for the feedback anyways...
 
I think The Riddler should start out as a struggling detective in the police/CSI force who's partner is Essen...Who Gotham police hire to find out who Batman is...Detective Nashton...Then like can interrogate Gordon...Gordon starts to like Essen...Grdon gets divorced...Essen leaves the field...Gordon tells Nashton that he has one more crack at figuring out who Batman is...Tries to pen Batman to Wayne...No evidence though...Nashton goes into a downward spiral into depression or something...Makes the persona...The Riddler...To continue his work on figuring who Batman is...Sends evidence or clues or riddles to Gordon and the police on Batman...In secret...

Basically...He's a crappy detective...Who loses his job and continues his work under a different persona...The Riddler...

I made this off the top of my head...Thought i could work...Thoughts?

That's got potential.

The only part I disagree with is him being a crappy detective. It would make more sense for him to be a great detective like Sherlock Holmes. Otherwise it would look like his IQ points doubled the second he became the Riddler. :D

Perhaps he's to good a detective. He manages to alienate some of the people above Gordon or Gordon himself because of this. maybe Gordon manipulates him into doing something stupid which allows gives Jim the excuse he needs to get him fired or demoted. Gordon knows he's smart enough to catch Batman and he has to stop it.

Love the idea of Essen showing up.

This could set up other sequels, whether Nolan directs or not, where Joker kills her.
 
Want a diagnosis? It's a rare condition called "having Harvey Bullock in the top of the head"?

You described Bullock almost word-by-word. You just liked the idea of Riddler being a crappy detective, but that plot would be too boring, and too focused on his perspective, as opposite to being focused in Batman's perspective, that's how should be.

You want a disillusioned detective? Put Harvey Bullock in you script draft (or whatever you do) and actually make him sympathetic towards the cause of agent Nigma. Maybe he can even help Nigma behind Comissionner Gordon's back. It's not a bad character at all, at can be definitive on giving Nigma some breach or leverage inside the Police Force, when Gordon opposes him. He's one of the cops that would never trust a masked vigilante like Batman, and wants to help Nigma... of course, when Nigma turns out to be the Riddler, Bullock will have to repent for what he did... redemption theme all over again.

The Riddler can't be a crappy detective. He's supposed to be one of the smartest characters in Bat-world.

That's my diagnosis :word:
They should get Jeremy Ratchford to play Harvey.
 
So... it's reverse villain.
You know that the villain must be some kind of threat to the protagonist, don't you? Robert McKee says that in crime thrillers there must be an obligatory scene... the moment when the villain has the protagonist at his/her mercy and it's about to destroy him. Both Ra's and the Joker have had Batman at their mercy in both movies... even Two-Face shot him and Scarecrow gassed him and set him on fire.

What's your man Edward there planning to do? Embarass him?

You still need Bullock. You need a cop that hates and distrust the Batman and puts everything forward to chase him. That cop is there for a reason, to extrapolate to all the cops that also distrust Batman. Montoya is there for the oppsite reason. To show cops inside the GPD that actually want to help those meddling Feds that came along with Nigma (Ellen Yindel and his 'Batman Task Force') is telling a lot about the human beings that are under Gordon's command.

Plus, it's being faithful to the comics.

And no director in his sane mind would actually make a character who wants to pen Batman to Bruce out of a hatred for Bruce... just to make him realize that "Wow, Wayne REALLY IS Batman! What were a the odds?".

Any more ideas?

...and just to get it out of my chest, I really hope you're not projecting into that alternate Riddler version of yours.
Riddler could do that just not directly. He'd need to set up traps and proxies to physically hurt Batman. Nothing to campy just the type of stunts you see from Die Hard or Joker in TDK.
 
If Penquin is the villain in the next movie I most definitely think he will be refered to as Oswald or Cobblepot more often than the Penquin. I can see more of a realistic approach when it comes to his look: specifically the monicle and the oversized nose. I would rather him wear glasses and his nose be elongated but not too much.

I see the Penquin as more of a mafia boss that rises while all the other mobsters are in prison, which makes sense with the continuity from TDK to the next one. A more political and respected looking mob boss like in the italian mafia. I'd like to see Falconi appoint him and Penquin take over his position.
 
If Penquin is the villain in the next movie I most definitely think he will be refered to as Oswald or Cobblepot more often than the Penquin. I can see more of a realistic approach when it comes to his look: specifically the monicle and the oversized nose. I would rather him wear glasses and his nose be elongated but not too much.

I see the Penquin as more of a mafia boss that rises while all the other mobsters are in prison, which makes sense with the continuity from TDK to the next one. A more political and respected looking mob boss like in the italian mafia. I'd like to see Falconi appoint him and Penquin take over his position.

He could be a good character. Being an arms dealer, he can be as much of a technnology-freak as Batman is. Much of Batman's advantage is that he has always a superior tech... but that may not be the case with Cobblepot.

And it is important that he is regarded as an upstanding citizen in Gotham... a criminal that's blessed by society to contrast Batman's situation as an outcast from society.

The 'just glasses' thing is a good idea.

Falcone is insane, you know? And Maroni took his place, but most of the main gang member were killed in TDK (Gambol, Maroni, the Chechen). So there's a power void in Gotham's mob, and Cobblepot could step in.

I can imagine a mob members meeting in a storage facility during a rainy day... thughs outside check that no one brings guns to the meeting, and Cobblepot doesn't have any... he just enters with his umbrella :cwink:

Next thing you know, that penguin-dressed guy doesn't like the deal he's being offered and every mob boss at the meeting is killed by machine-gun fire coming out of that umbrella.

:word: that'd be cool
 
All this talk about the viallins. I'm sticking with my idea on Mr. Freeze. LOL.

Me too, but one has to admit tht there are still many great villains out there.

Check out the first scene in Mission Impossible III, and picture Phillip Seymour Hoffman as the Penguin... there he's an arms dealer hell bent on wreaking havoc too.

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=4JvWyFt4AdQ&feature=related

See the clip and imagine Michelle Monaghan as Selina (hell yeah!) and Tom Cruise as Bruce (hell no! :whatever:) and you'll se how well it plays out...

And Seymour Hoffman is a passionate, oscar-winning actor. Nolan's favorite kind.
 
All this talk about the viallins. I'm sticking with my idea on Mr. Freeze. LOL.

Me too, but one has to admit tht there are still many great villains out there.

Check out the first scene in Mission Impossible III, and picture Phillip Seymour Hoffman as the Penguin... there he's an arms dealer hell bent on wreaking havoc too.

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=4JvWyFt4AdQ&feature=related

See the clip and imagine Michelle Monaghan as Selina (hell yeah!) and Tom Cruise as Bruce (hell no! ) and you'll se how well it plays out...

And Seymour Hoffman is a passionate, oscar-winning actor. Nolan's favorite kind.
 
That's got potential.

The only part I disagree with is him being a crappy detective. It would make more sense for him to be a great detective like Sherlock Holmes. Otherwise it would look like his IQ points doubled the second he became the Riddler. :D

Perhaps he's to good a detective. He manages to alienate some of the people above Gordon or Gordon himself because of this. maybe Gordon manipulates him into doing something stupid which allows gives Jim the excuse he needs to get him fired or demoted. Gordon knows he's smart enough to catch Batman and he has to stop it.

Love the idea of Essen showing up.

This could set up other sequels, whether Nolan directs or not, where Joker kills her.

Hey Major...You got a point there...Glad you thought my idea was okay...I guess Edward would have to be a good detective...Very smart...But his ego gets in the way...Too caught up in his own thoughts...Can't think...And that's why he starts to struggle...He so arrogant...Like the fake Wayne...Except he's not pretending...Edward is very cocky...Starts to dislike Bruce because he looks down on him...

Would that be better...Instead of him being crappy...He's arrogant...And his arrogance makes him make bad decisions...Which makes him "crappy"...
 
He could be a good character. Being an arms dealer, he can be as much of a technnology-freak as Batman is. Much of Batman's advantage is that he has always a superior tech... but that may not be the case with Cobblepot.

And it is important that he is regarded as an upstanding citizen in Gotham... a criminal that's blessed by society to contrast Batman's situation as an outcast from society.

The 'just glasses' thing is a good idea.

Falcone is insane, you know? And Maroni took his place, but most of the main gang member were killed in TDK (Gambol, Maroni, the Chechen). So there's a power void in Gotham's mob, and Cobblepot could step in.

I can imagine a mob members meeting in a storage facility during a rainy day... thughs outside check that no one brings guns to the meeting, and Cobblepot doesn't have any... he just enters with his umbrella :cwink:

Next thing you know, that penguin-dressed guy doesn't like the deal he's being offered and every mob boss at the meeting is killed by machine-gun fire coming out of that umbrella.

:word: that'd be cool

that would be sweet. Really good scene.. would be really good if he left one guy alive and stuck the gun up his nose threatening him and monologing how he'll take over and then click. out of bullets.
 
A lead female villian would be good. There need to be a lead actress and with Rachel out of the picture, that would leave Bruce alone. Perhaps he feels guilty over Rachel's death... so he focuses all his energy on crime fighting... Catwoman emerges and Selina pursues bruce.
 
Bane: A jailed inmate who constantly uses a hybrid steroid mixed with other sorts of drugs that make him not feel pain, he also is a great strategist.

Clayface: A serial killer who constantly has cosmetic surgery to change his appearance.

Deadshot: A mercenary hired by the mob to take down batman. He uses somewhat sophisticated gear and has no regard for his own life.

Firefly: A arsonist who prefers to sue an old wayne prototype jet pack, he burned all most all blue prints and stole all models of it. He is ex military and also a clever inventor. He was employed by wayne ent. as a weapons creator directly by mr. Earle.

Harley Quinn: A doctor who treated the joker at arkham and know carries out his deeds from inside jail (I would like her makup to be more clean cut, clean slice scars maybe and dark red lipstick and more clean black eyeliner, she is a woman).

Hush: Same back story. He tries revives bruce and treats him at his hospital, but all his anger and rage com back so he dons an alternate persona and strikes at batman.

Killer Croc: A side show due to genetic mutation in his skin. There is no treatment to the disorder that makes his skin a pale greenish color, it also has some other various effects(abnormal nose, he devolps hard tan spot on the lower arms back and lower legs, head has some also, he cannot grow hair). He works out constantly and is a frequent drug abuser. He works with local gangs and small time mob to fund his drug addiction. He loves to kill people like a hobby, and sometimes uses cannibalistic methods.

The Mad Hatter: A convicted child molester who frequently abuses children and uses them for his plans for taking over gotham. He gives the kids medication to make them like mindless zombies.

Mr. Freeze: A scientist who's body has been kept in freezing temperatures starts to get a pale white discoloration. Over time his body adjusts and he can no longer breath warm air or it will prove fatal. He keeps his wifes body who suffered from terminal cancer frozen so that the cancer cannot spread her body does not change and the cancer does spread but at a slower rate. He commits many crimes to fund his research to heal his wife(his weapon freezes objects in there tracks, it freezes the air and blows water out thus freezing anything in its path, he does not hesitate to kill for his wife).

Poison Ivy: An herbalist who believes that that humans destroy everything that is pure. She employs the use of some drug type elements and commonly wears plant as clothes(usually covering her private parts only). She uses plants that attract the opposite sex to get her ways. She prefers to use a small dagger made from non harming materials.

Riddler: A man obsessed with the batman that sends a string of riddles. Each riddle leads to a murdered person. At each dead body he can't help but leave a clue to his name. He has been stated to be similar to the zodiac killer.

Ventriloquist and Scarface: The V as he refers to himself is a man that secretly runs the mob through Scarface or the new mob boss. He is hard to track and is very cowardly.

The are all just something I thought up on the spot. So I really don't know.:woot:
 
A lead female villian would be good. There need to be a lead actress and with Rachel out of the picture, that would leave Bruce alone. Perhaps he feels guilty over Rachel's death... so he focuses all his energy on crime fighting... Catwoman emerges and Selina pursues bruce.

Catwoman or Talia could work with that.
 
Deadshot:

One of the military's best snipers. Carries plenty of weapons from grenades on his belt, knives in his boots to several loaded handguns on his personal at all times. Has access to the best military weaponry.

A professional. Incredibly confident in his abilities.

Has an ice cold demeanor. When he's "on" nothing means anything but the mission.
Innocent bystanders are just collateral damage to him.

Wears army fatigues. About ten years older then Batman, but physically fit enough to give him a good fight armed or unarmed.
 
I think introducing Selina AND Talia would be a great idea, really... Have a three-way battle.
 

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