Jared Leto IS The Joker - - - - - - - - Part 17

[The Joker]

Razzie people love to give those trophies to Oscar winners and Jared's failure was bigger than Eisnberg or at the very least more people made fun of him which he also made it easier by saying things easier to make fun of than Eisenberg. If I were to bet unfortunately he gets it

As bad as Leto was, Eisenberg is far more deserving of a Razzie.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I wouldn't mind if they were co-winners

They both clearly deserve it

 

[harlequinade]

Except that's not true. The main people disappointed with Leto's Joker are hardcore Batman fans. He was received just fine by general audiences. More of those jokes and criticisms (from the GA, anyway) were aimed at Eisenberg, so his failure as Lex was definitely bigger.

Wouldn't even call this a failure on Leto's part, honestly.

Not really... Just look at those tweets someone posted. No one would have posted that to this extent before this film. And I highly doubt they are all hardocre Batman fans.

 

[wnjcwjkk]

It's just disappointing that from the man who helped write memorable villains such as Alonzo Harris, could bungle with a character like the Joker.

Honestly I



I think for every moment like this
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there should be a moment like this:
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[YT]https://youtu.be/dXsDi0D7bao[/YT]

as a counterpoint. Joker should have been severely reworked in order to work. Even if he was just a cameo, if done right, he could have been the most memorable and anticipated part of the movie/sequels. But maybe under another director or actor(if David does come back, it should be back to the drawing board and rework with other writers).

Well said, I enjoyed reading that, not sure if you wrote it or not, and watching the vids. Man, B:TAS was so great!


Yeah, I don't feel his Joker is irredeemable for the future, and I actually appreciated it a little more when I watched the film a second time.


In theory, if it was executed really well, I think it was a great idea to have Joker play a small role in the film, and not be the main villain or main character. If executed well. I'm not a Tarantino fanboy, but I respect and appreciate him, and he hasn't done a boring film, but I'm thinking a Tarantino approach would've worked well for a story and characters like Suicide Squad


I'm trying to think of a good example of a character in a film who only had small role, couple scenes, but completely stole the show. Kinda like Alec Baldwin in Glengarry Glen Ross, or something like Harvey Keitel or Christopher Walken in Pulp Fiction, but I know there's better examples than that. But maybe have Joker play a key role in a plot point in the middle of the movie, don't show him much if at all early on in flashbacks, don't put him in much of the trailers or advertising, leave a certain mystery or mystique to the character, so when he shows up he has people's attention and leaves them wanting more. Like, if Ledger's Joker only showed up for fifteen minutes in a film prior to Dark Knight, people would be talking, and couldn't wait for the next installment when he's featured more heavily.


And I think Leto could've pulled that off with the right script, dialouge, and motivations. Like, how they did the first trailer, barely revealing him at the end, people were intrigued, couldn't wait to see more. And the little glimpses, like him with the tuxedo and machine gun, lying in the circle of knives (which turned out to be kinda pointless) and being all manic and crazy in the car, all of that was spot on Joker. They just spoiled it with cheesy dialouge and randomness and weirdness just to show how crazy he is. Ledger's Joker was crazy but his motivations made sense,?abd he struck the perfect balance between psychotic and funny, with just a touch of goofiness. Leto's Joker tried to go all out on the crazy and it was just too much, like adding too much salt to a meal or too much sugar into Kool Aid

 

[Wildcard]

Not really... Just look at those tweets someone posted. No one would have posted that to this extent before this film. And I highly doubt they are all hardocre Batman fans.

I've seen them and others. A very select few aren't hardcore fans but the majority displeased were. Outside that, people like him just fine.

 

[King23DC]

As bad as Leto was, Eisenberg is far more deserving of a Razzie.

No.

Jesse's Lex was deliberately meant to be a creepy dweeb with daddy / God complex issues. He was supposed to be neurotic, intelligent but unhinged. Jesse delivered this ... he actually gives the film it's flavor. What would've been the point in a noncharismatic take on Lex akin to say STAS? He was at least memorable. For good or bad, depending on your stance on the take of the BvS version of the character. And given how annoying he is plays into the fact you want to see him get his just due.

His meek physicality blends well with his intellect, while visibly off setting the two physical beasts Cavill and Affleck were.

Leto is totally forgettable after the film ends.

Only reason I remember his crap performance is because I'm a Batman Stan and Joker is my favorite villain of all time. Plus with the bar that's already been set, I demand better.

During the actual film Leto's acting is cringe inducing, along with the dialogue. Text book overacting. And he's never scary or threatening. With a character like the Joker that's a sin. He only ends up being unintentionally hilarious for the level of cheese and cringe.

Best part was the look he gives Harley on the bike in the cut scene. The rest of that sene plays out with horrendous dialogue and acting.

 

[Flint Marko]

Everything you say in this paragraph could apply to Lex:

During the actual film Leto's acting is cringe inducing, along with the dialogue. Text book overacting. And he's never scary or threatening. With a character like the Joker that's a sin. He only ends up being unintentionally hilarious for the level of cheese and cringe.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Agreed. Lex and Joker equally bad but Eisenberg have worst acting performance.

 

[Wildcard]

Everything you say in this paragraph could apply to Lex:

Yep. All of that applies far more to Jesse than it does Jared, especially when you take into account things like that speech or the fact that Jesse's Lex just talks too damn much.

To be honest, now that I've had time to really analyze the film, there's really not too much different between what Jack did and what Jared did. Granted, Jack was playing a more high wire version of himself that kills people, but he was just as animated and over the top as Leto was (actually more so since he had more screen time), except he doesn't get crucified for it.

Now how about that?

 

[harlequinade]

Yep. All of that applies far more to Jesse than it does Jared, especially when you take into account things like that speech or the fact that Jesse's Lex just talks too damn much.

To be honest, now that I've had time to really analyze the film, there's really not too much different between what Jack did and what Jared did. Granted, Jack was playing a more high wire version of himself that kills people, but he was just as animated and over the top as Leto was (actually more so since he had more screen time), except he doesn't get crucified for it.

Now how about that?

I think this is because of 'look how crazy I am' marketing route Leto went with this. People already disliked him and this performance before they actually saw it so it's so easy to hate on it after seeing the film

 

[Wildcard]

I think this is because of 'look how crazy I am' marketing route Leto went with this. People already disliked him and this performance before they actually saw it so it's so easy to hate on it after seeing the film

That just makes the hate even more unjustified.

 

[hellblazer103]

I'm sorry, are we supposed to like a guy who's idea of "method acting" is ****ing into a bunch of condoms and just behaving like a total tool?

 

[Flint Marko]

Yep. All of that applies far more to Jesse than it does Jared, especially when you take into account things like that speech or the fact that Jesse's Lex just talks too damn much.

To be honest, now that I've had time to really analyze the film, there's really not too much different between what Jack did and what Jared did. Granted, Jack was playing a more high wire version of himself that kills people, but he was just as animated and over the top as Leto was (actually more so since he had more screen time), except he doesn't get crucified for it.

Now how about that?

I have no idea what point you're trying to make?

I'm sorry, are we supposed to like a guy who's idea of "method acting" is ****ing into a bunch of condoms and just behaving like a total tool?

It'd be one thing if the performance turned out well, but it did not.

 

[Wildcard]

Then that's sad, because I made my point abundantly clear in the aforementioned post.

 

[harlequinade]

That just makes the hate even more unjustified.

I don't understand... it would be less unjustified if he was a likable person?

 

[Flint Marko]

Then that's sad, because I made my point abundantly clear in the aforementioned post.

It appears you're trying to defend Leto's Joker by comparing him to Nicholson, which doesn't make sense because it doesn't have anything to do with my original point.

 

[hellblazer103]

Yep. All of that applies far more to Jesse than it does Jared, especially when you take into account things like that speech or the fact that Jesse's Lex just talks too damn much.

To be honest, now that I've had time to really analyze the film, there's really not too much different between what Jack did and what Jared did. Granted, Jack was playing a more high wire version of himself that kills people, but he was just as animated and over the top as Leto was (actually more so since he had more screen time), except he doesn't get crucified for it.

Now how about that?

I hate to repeat what's already been said dozens of times, but the difference between Nicholson ( or Ledger , for that matter ) and Leto is that Nicholson came off as naturally crazy while Leto was in-your-face trying so hard to prove how crazy he was.

 

[Wildcard]

It appears you're trying to defend Leto's Joker by comparing him to Nicholson, which doesn't make sense because it doesn't have anything to do with my original point.

No, that's not it at all. There have been those saying Leto was too over-the-top and animated, and I pointed out Nicholson was as well, only he doesn't get a lot of hate for it.

On that note, I'm not saying Nicholson should be hated on. Just that Leto's performance isn't nearly as "horrible" as most try to make it out to be.

 

[Rodrigo90]

I was watching SS earlier and I really do think it was down to Ayer's editing and selection of takes that botched up Jared's Joker. There's parts he's truly great in, and then something else comes along that buggers up the consistency and tone of his character.

That's why I believe in hope for him in the future under better handling.

 

[The Joker]

Just that Leto's performance isn't nearly as "horrible" as most try to make it out to be.

Opinion. A lot of people do find his performance to be truly dreadful.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

He sounded a lot like a 30s gangster, wish his style matched the personality.

 

[DeadStroke]

I was watching SS earlier and I really do think it was down to Ayer's editing and selection of takes that botched up Jared's Joker. There's parts he's truly great in, and then something else comes along that buggers up the consistency and tone of his character.

That's why I believe in hope for him in the future under better handling.

This. There are moments where I can't stop grinning because it feels like a live action BTAS Joker. Then there are times where its gone. Apparently a lot of Leto's scenes went on longer than the script so the choppiness stems from that.

He sounded a lot like a 30s gangster, wish his style matched the personality.

Should have had him in the tux more. I liked the first outfit/Batman escape as well. Its the Chemical Wedding outfit that was terrible. The outfit with the guard wasn't good either.

 

[TheRedWraith]

This. There are moments where I can't stop grinning because it feels like a live action BTAS Joker. Then there are times where its gone. Apparently a lot of Leto's scenes went on longer than the script so the choppiness stems from that.


Should have had him in the tux more. I liked the first outfit/Batman escape as well. Its the Chemical Wedding outfit that was terrible. The outfit with the guard wasn't good either.

What did you think of his busting out Harley outfit, I really liked that he took the time to acquire a guard uniform and then emblazen Joker on it.

 

[DeadStroke]

What did you think of his busting out Harley outfit, I really liked that he took the time to acquire a guard uniform and then emblazen Joker on it.

The reveal kinda reminded me of this.

 

[Rodrigo90]

This. There are moments where I can't stop grinning because it feels like a live action BTAS Joker. Then there are times where its gone. Apparently a lot of Leto's scenes went on longer than the script so the choppiness stems from that.

I got that feeling too, and I can't lie just because it's a mandatory thing to hate on Jared...
The complaints are justified, but I don't blame Jared. We know there were different takes and we know the tone of the script was meant to be darker, and we did see scenes that will never see the light of day that shows Joker being an absolute evil bastard towards Harley, as that was in the original script. In that script, and I suspect in the many takes done for it, Jared pulled off something darker and creepier...
But once WB stepped in and laid down the demands on Ayer to lighten up the tone, he had no choice but to go with Jared's goofier takes, cut out and reshoot any scenes that were remotely "too dark" for audiences, and shortening his screen time, thus botching up Joker's character and Jared's performance. It was still an iffy script at times, but the wounds inflicted would've been absolutely less severe or even non-existent, had it not been for that meddling.

I'm willing to bet Jack and Heath had bad/goofy takes on scenes. Imagine if WB forced Burton and Nolan to go with their less threatening and sillier takes in the more darker scenes...