Jared Leto IS The Joker - Part 9

[TDK elbowstrike]

Bruce Wayne is insane! Insane I tell ya'!

Seriously though, I'm of the mind that if Batman was completely sane, the Joker would have maybe lost interest a long time ago? Or maybe it's like that old Hannibal Lecter/ Will Graham thing from the Thomas Harris novels. How do you catch a monster or psycho? You think like them. Sometime, you ARE like them...

 

[terry78]

I do cater to the theory that Batman isn't completely sane. A normal person doing this would've killed Joker or some of these other nuts a while ago. The fact that Bat is so obsessed with not putting them out of their misery does ironically make him the nut.

 

[Bruce Malone]

 

[Silly Cat]

I've always believed that Batman is just as insane as the Joker. Batman is just as obsessed with fighting crime as Joker is obsessed with him, neither of them can truly stop.

The difference is that Batman uses his insanity to do good, while Joker uses his for evil.

Batman's obsession is very unhealthy, it keeps him from ever having any sort of a normal life, BUT in the long run he uses his obsession to help others so that makes him a hero (even though it's essentially self destructive).

If Batman wasn't insane and obsessed, then he would have healed from his parents murder, and gone on to live a normal life (like others who have experienced similar trauma) maybe he would have used his money to help others suffering from violent crime...but he wouldn't have dressed up as a Bat and become a vigilante.

Just the fact that Batman does what he does speaks of someone whose mental state is a bit screwed up. But he is a hero, and so we forgive him his insanity.

 

[regwec]

Batman isn't insane. Only a very superficial reading of seventy years' worth of comics would suggest that he was. In what way is his cognitive judgment impaired? The same can be said of The Joker, excepting the fact that he is obviously psychopathic.

 

[Majik1387]

Yeah, I don't agree with main canon Batman being insane at all.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Yeah, I don't agree with main canon Batman being insane at all.

in·san·i·ty
inˈsanədē/
noun
the state of being seriously mentally ill; madness.

Complicated grief disorder

Obsessive–compulsive disorder

Dissociative identity disorder

Posttraumatic stress disorder

Depression

Anger management issues

Reading:

Psychology Today
Part 1
Part 2

Flow Psychology

Doc 2 Doc

 

[regwec]

Yes, he isn't insane. Inevitably it is periodically questioned or a subject of banter, but there is no doubt that he is a rational being, if an ultimately selfless one.

 

[Boom]

Anyone who devoted a large part of his life to studying martial arts, meditation, yoga, and other practices aimed at achieving inner peace, a heightened sense of self-awareness, and emotional/psychological/physical equilibrium is bound to have a sound state of mind. Which is why I gravitate more towards Grant Morrison's depiction of the character in contrast to Frank Miller's more violent and emotionally fractured characterization.

 

[regwec]

Sure, but even Miller's Batman demonstrates a rational and fairly circumscribed response to a fallen world. He is nevertheless more pessimistic and habitually violent.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Someone who take's that much responsibility into his hands and strives to terrorize people is at least a little crazy. Being Batman is not a measured response, it's an obsession. Batman is not real but in most popular representations Batman's state of mind is at the very least hinted at. He's broken, from the 1940's he's been broken.

 

[regwec]

No, he just decides to do something heroic, and the fact that comics have required it to be sustained for so long has resulted in the perception that he had an ulterior motive.

If your argument is merely that Batman's behaviour is unusual, then...obviously it is. He is a superhero. Not everyone gets to be a superhero. Not everyone gets to be a war hero, astronaut, or world class sportsman either. Exceptionalism is par for the course.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

No, he just decides to do something heroic, and the fact that comics have required it to be sustained for so long has resulted in the perception that he had an ulterior motive.

If your argument is merely that Batman's behaviour is unusual, then...obviously it is. He is a superhero. Not everyone gets to be a superhero. Not everyone gets to be a war hero, astronaut, or world class sportsman either. Exceptionalism is par for the course.

I guess my reason is I have always loved the character because he is ultimately human, and therefore fallible. No human is perfect, no human is good all the time unless they have something that sets them apart. Something a little different. You have to be a little crazy to want to affect change. The character of Batman never felt like he was doing anything heroic to me, it feels more like he does it out of necessity. Maybe I read into it a little differently but I remember as a kid reading Batman: Shadow of the Bat when he get locked up in Arkham and thinking that he kind of fit in, lol. We could back and fourth for pages on what makes Batman tick and I honestly don't think we'll convince one another. But I do see where I your coming from, I guess maybe I'm a bit of a pessimist and can't expect ultimate goodness without a mental disorder.

 

[The Joker]

Batman isn't insane. Only a very superficial reading of seventy years' worth of comics would suggest that he was. In what way is his cognitive judgment impaired? The same can be said of The Joker, excepting the fact that he is obviously psychopathic.

Yeah, I don't agree with main canon Batman being insane at all.

Thank you. I hate when Batman is called insane. He has some issues stemming from his childhood sure, but that doesn't make him insane.

 

[regwec]

I don't really understand what you mean. You seem to be suggesting that sacrifice cannot be heroic if its object is "necessary". I think that sacrifice is rarely heroic if its object is "unnecessary" for the protection of the entity which is threatened.

 

[DeadStroke]

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

I don't really understand what you mean. You seem to be suggesting that sacrifice cannot be heroic if its object is "necessary". I think that sacrifice is rarely heroic if its object is "unnecessary" for the protection of the entity which is threatened.

Of course it can be heroic, I just never read into Batman as a character who cared about heroics at all. Seems more like a side effect of his compulsion, in my opinion, rather than a reason. I may be at odds with people on here, but insanity just means being in a state of mental illness, I'm not calling Batman names lol.

 

[regwec]

I'm not accusing you of any such thing, but you seem to view Batman's antipathy to heroism as a concept as a bar against his motive being heroic in the sense that others would understand it. Stripped down to its basics, Bruce Wayne's story is one of a lifetime's dedication to thwarting evil in order to prevent others from replicating his personal tragedy. To me, that is an inherently heroic motive. If he is too focused or humble to aspire to the appellation "hero", that just makes him a greater one.

 

[Boom]

If someone killed The Joker because they lost control over something he did, that might be considered a "normal" human response, but that individual would most likely plead temporary insanity in their defense (i.e. they had no conscious awareness toward what they were doing as a result of severe emotional distress). Because in civilized society, there is nothing normal about taking another life. There are always conditions and circumstances taken into consideration when it comes to intent - some defensive, others malicious, and others still emotional-driven.

The fact that Batman is able to maintain control and self-restraint in the face of horrific deeds is a testament to his psychological and emotional strength.

 

[Manofplastic]

compared like that - and don't get me wrong i really like the new joker, even tho the tats arent on a good rank for me but still, i like it as for now -

ledger's joker looks scary AF
leto's joker looks insane AF

they're 2 different approaches tho so, hard to pick a favourite.

i wonder if the entire leto joker scene can be more or less copied with ledgers material and see how that pans out

 

[The Shape]

"Insanity" is now considered to be a legal term rather than a medical diagnosis.

Batman doesn't have a mental illness that interferes with his ability to distinguish right from wrong, morally speaking. He is of sound mind and generally in control of his actions. While his chosen lifestyle may be unusual (and technically illegal), he is not mentally unstable or insane.

 

[Knight-Tale]

Batman probably has PTSD or some other emotional disorder but outright calling him insane is too far
He can function in life just fine calling him insane is basically calling all superheroes insane

 

[DeadStroke]

compared like that - and don't get me wrong i really like the new joker, even tho the tats arent on a good rank for me but still, i like it as for now -

ledger's joker looks scary AF
leto's joker looks insane AF

they're 2 different approaches tho so, hard to pick a favourite.

i wonder if the entire leto joker scene can be more or less copied with ledgers material and see how that pans out

We have to see if Leto's Joker can torment you psychologically. Its all there for him to appear that way. The torture and manipulation of Harley Quinn. We know that he killed Robin. Its all there on paper. But we have to see how he executes it.

Ledgers Joker was something that mob bosses laughed at. But then they saw just how in control and scary he really is. The fear his Joker created wasnt by how he looked. It was generated by how well he executed things and making you feel powerless......all with a smile on his face *shudders*


Leto's is supposedly the hardened street criminal. He's supposed to be the kind of Joker that can actually put up a decent fight with Batman. Such as in TDK Returns.

Some of it comes down to writing. But can he leave people feeling powerless without force is the question. Cant wait to find out.

 

[Boom]

Would Arkham Asylum doctors allow the Joker to wear metal grillz?

 

[Majik1387]

Yes. They're not really grills though.