Lord of the Advice: Fellowship of the Relationship

[Erzengel]

*shrug*

I graduated from college with a nice big sum of money owed to financial aid. It took me like 6-7 years to pay it all off.

 

[enterthemadness]

Sooner or later I'm gonna have to apply for aid, especially if I graduate community and transfer to a school in NC.

Except ECU. I dislike that school with a fireliy passion. Reminds me of my high school. "Oh you got a degree from ECU? Seems more like a GED than a college degree"

 

[Anita18]

I keep flip flopping on if I want to apply for a grant loan considering how ****ed this country is with it's debt, student loan debt, and credit card debt.

"Grant loan" doesn't exist. "Grant" means an organization gives you the money as a gift. You don't have to pay it back. "Loan" means you do have to pay it back.

Student debt isn't necessarily a bad thing overall. If you can make it through college with less than $10,000 in loans, it's not a burden at all to pay it off if you can get an okay-paying job with your degree. I'm over 6 years out of college and I'm still paying my loans back, but it's like, $50 a month so I kind of don't care. The interest rates on my loans aren't that bad, so I didn't think it was worth it to pay it off early and have thousands come out of my bank account at once. I can pay a few hundred dollars in interest for that peace of mind that I'll have an emergency fund.

Keep in mind, the only thing that is guaranteed to have a good degree payback is probably engineering, and not chemical engineering either. Many people (including some friends of mine) went to law school for 5-figure debt thinking they were gonna get 6-figure salaries when they got out. Now they're still 5-figures in debt with no job prospects in sight. Engineering is pretty much the only thing that can get you in the door at many places just by having the degree. Otherwise you're going to have to hustle with the skills you've gained, not necessarily what the paper says.

That said, student debt IS bad when you're 6-figures in the hole for a bachelor's in classical literature. That's just moronic.

You have to know what you want to do with your degree, and if the skills you're going to gain are viable. That's when getting student loans is worth it. You could even go to community college for two years and get an associate's. Even that's better than just a high school diploma.

I mean, let's face it, people who want to get into long-term relationships are also thinking pretty long-term when it comes to life. The fact that you're in your 20's living at home with only a paper route to pay for probably jack squat doesn't say much about your ability to think long-term. It doesn't put you in the best light to get a real girlfriend, and many women wouldn't be knocking on your door to give you that first kiss either.

It's not about how rich you are, but I do think ambition is universally attractive.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I mean it's great that you are attempting to meet people but not many people luck out on their 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. attempts. You have to keep at it.

I know right?

It took me until 28 to finally get my first legitimate girlfriend.

And even then, I still have one that won't put out!!

(just playing on that last part, really )

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I officially never want to be in love.

I can't believe it was only a little while ago I was posting on here about how my mum was the perfect example of someone who didn't need a relationship and was strong enough to end hers and still be okay with a future in which she was on her own...

Now she's had her heart actually broken she's a complete mess. She's crumpled. She does nothing but talk and cry. She wakes up at night and cries. She isn't eating, she feels sick and in pain all the time.

And I just found out today that my mum, 37 years sober with the AA and NA, got 3 valiums and a pack of propananol (sp?) from the doctors because she doesn't think she can take it.

She said she only got the valiums as a safety blanket, but I just don't know what to do with that. I freaked out, but she's asked me to trust her so i'm trying, but this is like nothing i've ever been through before... my mum is stronger than this.

But it's love. That's what's done this to her. The devestating, life and soul destroying capabilities of love.

And you can say it's just because she chose the wrong guy... but she really didn't. He's a good person, he was right in a lot of ways, he has been a great dad to me these last 10 years and he did a lot right. But it's just not worked... and it's taken all the strength she had away from her.

I've been in love once, and it took all my strength away too. And looking at my mum going through the same thing, panicking and wishing she was back together with him, blaming everything on herself, too sick to take a bite out of a peice of toast, just talking and talking all day with friends who are just as worried as I am... well it just confirms for me that being in love is a horrible and destructive thing. And i'm never going to fully give in to it again.

 

[Erzengel]

Relationships are hard. They are a lot of work and rarely are they like the fairy tale, wrap it up by the end love affairs you see on tv and movies.

Relationships are also not for everyone.

And no offense Hopeful. I can be someone who does charity work, am a great friend and would run into a building to save an animal, BUT if I'm cheating on my wife, I may be an overall good person? But I'm also an a'hole.

And again, your last relationship was with a closeted bf. Of course that wasn't going to work.

Some people go through a lot of crappy relationships. Some of them learn and change up their habits. Others do not. Others aren't just lucky.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Relationships are hard. They are a lot of work and rarely are they like the fairy tale, wrap it up by the end love affairs you see on tv and movies.

Relationships are also not for everyone.

And no offense Hopeful. I can be someone who does charity work, am a great friend and would run into a building to save an animal, BUT if I'm cheating on my wife, I may be an overall good person? But I'm also an a'hole.

And again, your last relationship was with a closeted bf. Of course that wasn't going to work.

Some people go through a lot of crappy relationships. Some of them learn and change up their habits. Others do not. Others aren't just lucky.

But that's the thing. Like you said, you can be this amazing person who risks his life for people, is a great friend, does charity work etc... and still break somebody's heart.

Absolutely every person on the planet is capable of making a mistake or being a *****e one time, or even just failing to be what the other person needs in a relationship to be happy... no matter how good of a person they are.

So when is it ever worth it?

And this guy hasn't cheated on his wife. For one thing, they aren't married.

They had decided to seperate, and he was still living there while he was looking for somewhere else to live. She was still cooking his meals and washing his clothes and in her mind she was hoping somewhere down the line once they'd had some space maybe they could sort out the relationship.

But he met someone else and started seeing her. He's not cheated in any technical sense... but he has still managed broken my mum's heart. Cause he obviously didn't care that much. He didn't fight for her, he just rolled over and moved onto the next woman. And because he didn't have the guts to tell her, so he was pretending nothing was different.

I don't want that. I don't wanna be with a guy for 10 years and then be broken when it fails.

I think some people just love being in relationships. They can move from one to another with ease.

But neither me nor my mum can invest our heart in something without it costing us a lot when it breaks... so I think i'm genuinely better off not giving all of my heart to anybody.

 

[Erzengel]

Then that's not living life. And it's classic, fear of commitment/relationships, etc.

There are very few guarantees in life. And yes people who say, it's better to love and lost then to never have loved at all doesn't make up for having your heart squished.

But, I rather look back after 10 years and be happy I tried and failed then never gave it a chance and had regret. At least I lived.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

There are plenty of ways i'm going to have lived.

I am about to move to the city in July. I plan on attempting to gain some form of success in my career. And I am a sociable person and I will make a lot of friends. And hey, i'll probably have a lot of great flings and casual relationships and connections with guys because i'm a fun and kind and interesting person, and because I have a libido just like anyone else. I'll be spontaneous and wild and then when I want to settle down i'll hopefully have earned enough money to have my own little 'bachelor' pad, or at least the female equivalent, and I can maybe write my novel, keep some pets, grow old with my friends around me.

That seems better to me than a life of desperately trying to find someone who will have me for life, and falling apart every time i'm dissapointed.

I just don't see how that's more 'living' than what I see of my future now.

 

[Erzengel]

And you will be moving to a bigger "pond" and not the smaller town you were in. Where you would date someone and break up and see them again, because the town's that's small.

I know you are so scared of having the same experience that your mother did. But it just seems like such a knee jerk reaction especially since while you had a "relationship", it didn't seem like it was a steady/consistent one for the originally stated reasons.

You're in your early 20s. A lot can happen when you move into a bigger city. A lot can happen in the next few years.

You don't have to get into a relationship right now. But to automatically discount any relationship for fear of it not working out, just seems silly now.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I'm not saying I couldn't have a commited relationship though. I'm saying I really don't think I want to.

It's not just my mum. This is just all around me, all these messed up relationships that are either failed, failing or probably will fail somewhere down the line. And you know what's there if they don't fail? Some one is left widowed. Got two of those happened in the last few weeks to locals in my pub... and they're broken shells of people now... they lost the love of their lives.

It's not that i'm 'afraid' of it not working out.

It just seems like looking at it, the sensible thing to do is NOT to try and make someone yours forever. Because no one can ever be yours forever.

So I think i'll approach every relationship as one that'll last as long as it lasts, and i'm not going to fall so in love that I can't ever imagine being with anyone else... because that's when all you'll get at the end is pain.

 

[THE MR. TERRIFIC]

If I could do it over again I would wait to have kids and get married. I feel like I missed out sometimes because I settled down so young.

 

[Erzengel]

So I think i'll approach every relationship as one that'll last as long as it lasts, and i'm not going to fall so in love that I can't ever imagine being with anyone else... because that's when all you'll get at the end is pain.

Heh.

So you are going to get into relationships, and possibly fall in love BUT don't fall too in love. Gotcha.

There would be more friends with benefits out there if they had the capability of shelving their emotions but unfortunately, more often times than not they can't.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Heh.

So you are going to get into relationships, and possibly fall in love BUT don't fall too in love. Gotcha.
.

Well sure it sounds stupid when you say it like that.

But I've HAD a number of friends with benefits relationships that HAVEN'T resulted in my heart being broken at all.

So I know it's not impossible.

 

[enterthemadness]

Well sure it sounds stupid when you say it like that.

But I've HAD a number of friends with benefits relationships that HAVEN'T resulted in my heart being broken at all.

So I know it's not impossible.

Maybe you're friends are lying about that, like they do on tv.

 

[Erzengel]

Well sure it sounds stupid when you say it like that.

But I've HAD a number of friends with benefits relationships that HAVEN'T resulted in my heart being broken at all.

So I know it's not impossible.

I know you mentioned sleeping with some long standing friends just seeking a night of comfort if memory serves.

But did these guys ever start liking you? Did you ever have relationship thoughts about anyone of them? Was it a one time thing or was it on a consistent basis?

I know it's possible to sleep with friends. I've done it. But if it becomes a pattern especially with one of them over an amount of time. Feelings almost always gets in the way.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

I'm not saying I couldn't have a commited relationship though. I'm saying I really don't think I want to.

It's not just my mum. This is just all around me, all these messed up relationships that are either failed, failing or probably will fail somewhere down the line. And you know what's there if they don't fail? Some one is left widowed. Got two of those happened in the last few weeks to locals in my pub... and they're broken shells of people now... they lost the love of their lives.

It's not that i'm 'afraid' of it not working out.

It just seems like looking at it, the sensible thing to do is NOT to try and make someone yours forever. Because no one can ever be yours forever.

So I think i'll approach every relationship as one that'll last as long as it lasts, and i'm not going to fall so in love that I can't ever imagine being with anyone else... because that's when all you'll get at the end is pain.

I've got two things to say about this pattern of thinking;

One, emotions are funny, you can get totally caught up in them real easily. Sure, you're saying I'll never let myself fall in love, but nobody ever let's themselves fall in love, it just happens. You find that person you just can't wait to see and have such great times together and can't imagine yourself without them. Sure, you didn't mean for it to happen, but it did nonetheless.

Two, here's an analogy for you about broken relationships. You wouldn't turn down a night of drinking because it'll eventually lead to a hangover the next day would you? Of course you wouldn't cause I've read your stories. A relationship is like that, you're having a great time while you're in it, however, the more of it you "drink in", the more it'll hurt when you "wake up" the next day. Hopefully you never have to wake up though. You're mom will bounce back, it'll just take time. I really think she wasn't ready to break up with him, that's why he was still living with her, but he was ready and moved on, she basically got dumped and that's really tough. Just help her out with the healing process.

 

[enterthemadness]

I don't drink cause of hangovers and I rather put caffeine into my body. I see little value of "alcohol".

 

[The Guard]

I really don't think that all relationships should be looked at as "Well, we didn't end up together forever, so it's a complete failure".

If you grew in some way, learned something about yourself, or about the other person, or about life, in my mind, then much of the time a relationship has been a success.

 

[The Guard]

Ye Olde Double Post.

 

[Anita18]

I officially never want to be in love.

I can't believe it was only a little while ago I was posting on here about how my mum was the perfect example of someone who didn't need a relationship and was strong enough to end hers and still be okay with a future in which she was on her own...

Now she's had her heart actually broken she's a complete mess. She's crumpled. She does nothing but talk and cry. She wakes up at night and cries. She isn't eating, she feels sick and in pain all the time.

And I just found out today that my mum, 37 years sober with the AA and NA, got 3 valiums and a pack of propananol (sp?) from the doctors because she doesn't think she can take it.

She said she only got the valiums as a safety blanket, but I just don't know what to do with that. I freaked out, but she's asked me to trust her so i'm trying, but this is like nothing i've ever been through before... my mum is stronger than this.

But it's love. That's what's done this to her. The devestating, life and soul destroying capabilities of love.

And you can say it's just because she chose the wrong guy... but she really didn't. He's a good person, he was right in a lot of ways, he has been a great dad to me these last 10 years and he did a lot right. But it's just not worked... and it's taken all the strength she had away from her.

I've been in love once, and it took all my strength away too. And looking at my mum going through the same thing, panicking and wishing she was back together with him, blaming everything on herself, too sick to take a bite out of a peice of toast, just talking and talking all day with friends who are just as worried as I am... well it just confirms for me that being in love is a horrible and destructive thing. And i'm never going to fully give in to it again.

She did choose the wrong guy, but the wrong guy for her. It's as you said - he's not a "bad person." But like Erz said, he's an a-hole for not being honest with what he was doing.

Communication issues never mean one person is bad. It just means communication failed. That's all. When communication breaks down, the relationship is over. There's nothing you can do about it, and the only really bad thing about this situation is that your mom thought everything was okay when it wasn't.

But that's the thing. Like you said, you can be this amazing person who risks his life for people, is a great friend, does charity work etc... and still break somebody's heart.

Absolutely every person on the planet is capable of making a mistake or being a *****e one time, or even just failing to be what the other person needs in a relationship to be happy... no matter how good of a person they are.

So when is it ever worth it?

You're right. Everyone makes mistakes. People can be stressed for reasons that is not their partner's fault and it trickles home.

The important thing is to talk to each other about it. If you felt you've been a *****e, own up to it. Apologize and promise to be better. And then do it. That's the mark of a person truly ready to be in a relationship.

Sadly, I've seen multiple relationships fall apart because they weren't adult enough to own up to their faults and blame it all on their partner instead. Talk about immature.

There are plenty of ways i'm going to have lived.

I am about to move to the city in July. I plan on attempting to gain some form of success in my career. And I am a sociable person and I will make a lot of friends. And hey, i'll probably have a lot of great flings and casual relationships and connections with guys because i'm a fun and kind and interesting person, and because I have a libido just like anyone else. I'll be spontaneous and wild and then when I want to settle down i'll hopefully have earned enough money to have my own little 'bachelor' pad, or at least the female equivalent, and I can maybe write my novel, keep some pets, grow old with my friends around me.

That seems better to me than a life of desperately trying to find someone who will have me for life, and falling apart every time i'm dissapointed.

I just don't see how that's more 'living' than what I see of my future now.

But you're playing the victim there. You're saying you see relationships as someone coming to find you, who will have you for life. You're implying they'd be able to leave you whenever they like.

It's not just about giving your heart to someone. It's also having someone in your corner that you know will be rooting you on no matter what. It's about family. I don't think that fades away as quickly as you think it does.

And I think that's what hurts so much about your almost-stepdad leaving. He was family, and he easily threw that away. But family is as much about attitude as it is about time together.

I'm not saying I couldn't have a commited relationship though. I'm saying I really don't think I want to.

It's not just my mum. This is just all around me, all these messed up relationships that are either failed, failing or probably will fail somewhere down the line. And you know what's there if they don't fail? Some one is left widowed. Got two of those happened in the last few weeks to locals in my pub... and they're broken shells of people now... they lost the love of their lives.

It's not that i'm 'afraid' of it not working out.

It just seems like looking at it, the sensible thing to do is NOT to try and make someone yours forever. Because no one can ever be yours forever.

So I think i'll approach every relationship as one that'll last as long as it lasts, and i'm not going to fall so in love that I can't ever imagine being with anyone else... because that's when all you'll get at the end is pain.

You know, I randomly met someone on my way back from vacation - an older man who was one of the most beautiful souls I had ever met. He traveled on his own, enjoying life. He had a perpetual forward attitude to living. It was very impressive, since many older people I've met are quite cynical, and even younger people I know don't have quite this man's optimism and joie de vivre.

He had lost his longtime wife to cancer 5 years previously. He had taken care of her the whole time, watched her wither away, and of course was there at the very end. He said that's what they had promised when they took their vows - to be there for each other no matter what. He had promised to love her, and he did, even when she was on her deathbed, weighing less than 80lbs. He loved her then too.

One of the last things she told him was that it was okay to remarry. She acknowledged the love they had, and wanted him to experience it again when she was gone, and that he had much to offer another person the same way he did her.

The way he told it, it was just like Carl and Ellie's relationship from Up brought to life, where she sent him off on a new adventure after theirs was done. This man was on a new adventure, looking fondly at the love he was able to share with another person, and looking forward to possible love in the future. (He even laughed like a little boy when he came up with the thought that the Sochi Olympics would be a great site for a honeymoon. )

I swear to you relationships like that exist. But it didn't fall into this man's lap. He made a concerted effort to be the kind of husband he was, and his wife did the same.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I don't drink cause of hangovers and I rather put caffeine into my body. I see little value of "alcohol".

Alcohol makes you less of a *****e.

Seriously though you shouldn't feel compelled to drink. It's going to cut you off from certain people romantically but if drinking is not your preference then that probably won't be an issue.

 

[DV8]

I know right?

It took me until 28 to finally get my first legitimate girlfriend.

And even then, I still have one that won't put out!!

(just playing on that last part, really )

no you're not

 

[SpaceWay2009]

I officially never want to be in love.

I can't believe it was only a little while ago I was posting on here about how my mum was the perfect example of someone who didn't need a relationship and was strong enough to end hers and still be okay with a future in which she was on her own...

Now she's had her heart actually broken she's a complete mess. She's crumpled. She does nothing but talk and cry. She wakes up at night and cries. She isn't eating, she feels sick and in pain all the time.

And I just found out today that my mum, 37 years sober with the AA and NA, got 3 valiums and a pack of propananol (sp?) from the doctors because she doesn't think she can take it.

She said she only got the valiums as a safety blanket, but I just don't know what to do with that. I freaked out, but she's asked me to trust her so i'm trying, but this is like nothing i've ever been through before... my mum is stronger than this.

But it's love. That's what's done this to her. The devestating, life and soul destroying capabilities of love.

And you can say it's just because she chose the wrong guy... but she really didn't. He's a good person, he was right in a lot of ways, he has been a great dad to me these last 10 years and he did a lot right. But it's just not worked... and it's taken all the strength she had away from her.

I've been in love once, and it took all my strength away too. And looking at my mum going through the same thing, panicking and wishing she was back together with him, blaming everything on herself, too sick to take a bite out of a peice of toast, just talking and talking all day with friends who are just as worried as I am... well it just confirms for me that being in love is a horrible and destructive thing. And i'm never going to fully give in to it again.

I'm really sorry to hear that. Love can be a dangerous thing. It can eat you inside. You just feel so depressed; don't want to eat anything; can't concentrate; and it overwhelms you.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I know you mentioned sleeping with some long standing friends just seeking a night of comfort if memory serves.

But did these guys ever start liking you? Did you ever have relationship thoughts about anyone of them? Was it a one time thing or was it on a consistent basis?

I know it's possible to sleep with friends. I've done it. But if it becomes a pattern especially with one of them over an amount of time. Feelings almost always gets in the way.

I've have various different versions of FB's.

I've had a fling with a guy who was only around for a few months and I knew it. I've hooked up with a guy I used to be completely mad about and just kind of didn't feel it anymore but had fun while I could. I've been in 'relationships' that just weren't called relationships, where we didn't sleep with other people and we spent all our time together, but we didn't commit... and when it ended he started sleeping with someone else who he liked and that was fine, because I knew we both didn't want each other for the long term. I've had so many guys come in and out of my life as sexual partners, and every single one of them I am still friends with now. There is no weirdness, my feelings were never hurt and I had a lot of great experiences out of it.

And I could easily go the rest of my life doing that. Having 'flings' with people I meet, but never defining it, and always getting out before it gets too serious.

Maybe that'd just be better.

I've got two things to say about this pattern of thinking;

One, emotions are funny, you can get totally caught up in them real easily. Sure, you're saying I'll never let myself fall in love, but nobody ever let's themselves fall in love, it just happens. You find that person you just can't wait to see and have such great times together and can't imagine yourself without them. Sure, you didn't mean for it to happen, but it did nonetheless.

Two, here's an analogy for you about broken relationships. You wouldn't turn down a night of drinking because it'll eventually lead to a hangover the next day would you? Of course you wouldn't cause I've read your stories. A relationship is like that, you're having a great time while you're in it, however, the more of it you "drink in", the more it'll hurt when you "wake up" the next day. Hopefully you never have to wake up though. You're mom will bounce back, it'll just take time. I really think she wasn't ready to break up with him, that's why he was still living with her, but he was ready and moved on, she basically got dumped and that's really tough. Just help her out with the healing process.

I like your analogy

The trouble is, I honestly don't know WHY the thought of a hangover DOESN'T stop me drinking. I wonder about it all the damn time. Because if I had any will power when it comes to nights out, I seriously wouldn't drink. It's never worth the pain.

I hope she bounces back though, but she's 60, and she can't see herself trying for a relationship again.

I really don't think that all relationships should be looked at as "Well, we didn't end up together forever, so it's a complete failure".

If you grew in some way, learned something about yourself, or about the other person, or about life, in my mind, then much of the time a relationship has been a success.

I think that's a lot easier to say when you're younger than it is when your a woman whose never committed properly in her whole life, and finally did at the age of 50... and now at 60 has found it failed.

She did choose the wrong guy, but the wrong guy for her. It's as you said - he's not a "bad person." But like Erz said, he's an a-hole for not being honest with what he was doing.

Communication issues never mean one person is bad. It just means communication failed. That's all. When communication breaks down, the relationship is over. There's nothing you can do about it, and the only really bad thing about this situation is that your mom thought everything was okay when it wasn't.

You're right. Everyone makes mistakes. People can be stressed for reasons that is not their partner's fault and it trickles home.

The important thing is to talk to each other about it. If you felt you've been a *****e, own up to it. Apologize and promise to be better. And then do it. That's the mark of a person truly ready to be in a relationship.

Sadly, I've seen multiple relationships fall apart because they weren't adult enough to own up to their faults and blame it all on their partner instead. Talk about immature.

She tried talking so much. I mean, this has been going on for a year or more, with her saying she is going to leave him and then he'd do something nice and she'd doubt herself. She tried every which way to get him to see that their relationship needed to change because she wasn't happy, but he just wouldn't step up.

And if it has STAYED her choice, if she'd continued feeling this was the right way to go and not seeing the relationship as a failure because it was ending on good terms, it would have been okay.

He's just really sent her into a state of shock with what he's done, and now it doesn't feel like it's her choice she's actually started acting love sick... she was telling me today she is worried she made the wrong choice. And I have to remind her constantly of all the reasons why she did.

But you're playing the victim there. You're saying you see relationships as someone coming to find you, who will have you for life. You're implying they'd be able to leave you whenever they like.

It's not just about giving your heart to someone. It's also having someone in your corner that you know will be rooting you on no matter what. It's about family. I don't think that fades away as quickly as you think it does.

And I think that's what hurts so much about your almost-stepdad leaving. He was family, and he easily threw that away. But family is as much about attitude as it is about time together.

Family means nothing to me other than my mother. So it's really hard for me to understand all of that.

She's the only person in the whole world who wouldn't leave me. My Dad never bothered. My grandparents never bothered. My Aunt doesn't bother with me any more. Even my god parents don't bother with me any more... In my experience family means absolutely nothing to people, and fades away the minute your out of sight out of mind. Amd i'm not trying to sound sorry for myself I genuinely just think it's just how people are, and i'm fine with it.

But yeah, I do think it'd be a struggle to find someone who wanted me for my whole life... who'd commit to me in that way. And I don't wanna fret over it. I don't wanna spend my whole life constantly dissapointed. I'd rather just accept that this is the way people are, certain people never get the 'forever' kind of love and i'm one of them.

I'm really sorry to hear that. Love can be a dangerous thing. It can eat you inside. You just feel so depressed; don't want to eat anything; can't concentrate; and it overwhelms you.

Thanks

Yeah that's how she feels at the moment. I just gotta be strong and get her through this.

The hardest thing right now is that she doesn't work. She's managed to sell the house super fast, and is now staring at blank bookshelves all day, or talking and talking and talking about what's happened... no wonder it's making her sick.

But how can I take her mind of it? What can we do that'll get her head to stop swimming in circles?