Lord of the Advice: Fellowship of the Relationship

[amazingfantasy15]

Being in relationship is hard work.

Well, no contact since Monday from that one woman. She never called or nothing. Rude. Immature. I also wanted to talk to her in person to get...to see for myself. On her public Facebook break up, her BF at the time made serious drug allegrations at her. Of course she denied it and deleted the posts...but at sane time I don't know her well and wanted to talk to her cause she's hot and I wanted to see for myself.

She wasn't that interested to begin with from what it sounds like. You never even really set up a first date, so I don't think it's rude or immature on her part to break contact.

 

[Erzengel]

I am saying I want to guard against being sucked into that kind of thinking once I'm happy. To constantly be aware that as much in love as it feels like we are and as much as someone promises he will never stop loving you... It doesn't mean it they will. I'm not saying I won't get involved with guys at ever.

But you really can't control what's going to happen. I mean if you are going to self sabotage your relationships because you're afraid of being in an emotionally invested relationship, that's not healthy.

 

[Anita18]

This is one sticking point that I was alluding to in my other posts. It's like a lot of former/current posters here who've never had a real relationship. Those who consider themselves, battle hardened, jaded, victims of love that they are now so world weary because they haven't found someone that they "poo poo" any notion of ever being in love or having someone love them in return.

You're still young at 24/25.

And it's great that you're happy at being single, one should always be at that state even when they are looking to be in a relationship.

I don't think anyone here is telling you, you need to find someone to be happy.

My only point was just to have a little perspective of where you are, and where you could be. I wouldn't want you miss something really great because of your fears and because you've witnessed a lot of break ups/losses, etc. Who knows what will happen when you're 28? Or 30? What happens when you move?

To just say no to anything prospective just seems like a defense mechanism.

I've been talking a teenage classmate from school who sometimes randomly catches me on Facebook chat going, "Love is so hard! I'll be single forever!" and I ask what he's been doing on the dating front and he's like, "Nothing." He's never even gone on a date and he's already ready to give up on love.

I guess when you're that young and inexperienced about life, you expect/want things to fall in your lap without any effort, but that's really not how it works in the real world! I've been trying to get him off his duff and out doing stuff, but that kind of motivation only comes from inside.

It IS absolutely about perspective.

You're right.

Instead of just saying 'I'm just like my mum so I'm going to end up in the same situation' I should be saying 'I'm just like my mum... What can I do to change that'.

That's a great first step. I was playing therapist (geez, it's been happening a lot ) to another friend whose parents are totally dysfunctional - she's recently realized her father is a class-A narcissist, and her mom is unhealthily dependent on him. No wonder why her love life is so messed up!

She still has a lot of work to do to get over her knee-jerk attraction to similarly narcissistic guys who treat her like crap, but having that kind of perspective is definitely the first step.

And maybe it was my mums lack of commitment to earlier relationships that is why she is alone now... Not the failure of this last ditch effort.

I mean, she said she has one guy she regrets.

It's the guy she was seeing when she slept with my dad

He was the love of her life, and she wished like crazy for him to be the father and not my Dad... But life wasn't that kind to her unfortunately.

Though she did get me out of it, and I know she doesn't regret that one bit

There's always a good and bad side to every situation, absolutely.

That's a biggie though, especially if she was cheating on the love of her life with some guy who ditched you both later. I don't believe in karma, but I do believe that our actions lead to consequences that may affect us far into the future.

Denial and dellusion are so hard to overcome in bad relationships sometimes!

It's easier for us on the outside to see though, whereas from the inside it's all warped.

Maybe, but many people are overthinking it. It may still be technically early on in our relationship, but my fiance and I ALWAYS clear the air. If I feel I've been a nag to him, I tell him that and that I appreciate his patience with me. If he's been a *****e to me (even when he feels like he was a *****e and I was just like, "Whatever" It has happened very rarely, at any rate), he always apologizes afterwards and makes changes.

I hope that's something we don't lose when we get married. (In fact, I bet this is something they teach you in premarital counseling.) There never should be a point where you hate your partner, especially if it could be easily remedied with a honest "clearing of the air." I mean, it's one thing if you have one transgression. It's another if you let it keep going repeatedly time and time again. That's the line that my coworker and her husband crossed a loooong time ago, and I don't believe the relationship can be saved for that reason. There's too much baggage and resentment on both their parts. At least 5 years of it. A simple conversation can't fix that anymore, but often a simple conversation can fix much smaller transgressions if done early enough. You just need to know that your partner really does care about and respect you, and letting things fester is decidedly the wrong thing to do in that case.

My first relationship carried a lot of resentment on my part because I had low self-esteem and was a jealous beeeyotch. We probably should have broken up after the first year, but dragged it out for another 6 months because nobody had the guts to want something better. I don't want to go through that again.

Unfortunately I couldn't love a guy like that I don't think, at least not at this place in my life.

I feel like I'm channelling SuperMike here but I genuinely do prefer alpha males.

No problem with that, although you'll have to be happy being the submissive partner in the relationship in that case.

Well, that's not entirely true. If you want to be an ambitious alpha too, you have to be comfortable playing the beta role at times. And so will he. I know of ambitious couples who could both be alpha relative to the general population (my sister is in one, and one famous example is Bill and Hillary Clinton), but both partners can't be alpha at once. One will have to play the more supportive part sometimes. Or at least be okay with playing the more supportive part if that's what's needed.

I fully believe that's why most Hollywood marriages fall apart. Both partners want to be in the spotlight equally at the same time, and that rarely works out. Dueling ego, as it were, that are not fit to be in a long-term relationship to begin with.

Of course it's a defense mechanism.

I want to defend against unneccesary pain, that is mostly caused by what society and movies tell you that you should be looking for. And I want to do that by ripping away the illusion of finding that one true love that lasts forever, and just veiwing relationships as something fleeting. Never letting my head and my heart get sick with addiction to a person... Trying to have some self control by just treating every relationship realistically instead of daydreaming about weddings and growing old together.

I'll probably have relationships in my life I'm sure.

I just don't ever want to get so dependant on the other person that and so delluded by my love for them, that leaving them is either impossible or physically detrimental.

It seems like that kind of love is an indulgence. And just like drugs, the more you indulge, the bigger the come down.

Pick and choose what you want of your expectations. You're right - society and Hollywood tells us entirely unrealistic things. (I think rom coms are totally lame, I hate them with a passion!) But you can sit down and determine what YOU want out of a relationship.

Just because it happened to your mom, or even people around you, doesn't mean it will happen to you. People die, of course, but it's the attitude that makes the difference. If they are truly supportive partners, they will send you off the rest of your life the best way they know how.

The guy I met traveling? He's definitely in his 60s, and was looking forward to getting married to someone he had yet to meet, in two years.

ETM ... I think you need to let that one go ...

But she's hot.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

I have to say, I have never liked that expression 'hot', to describe someone's sexual attractiveness or whatever, it just makes me think of standing against a radiator or a kettle or something. It just sounds like a beverley hillbillies type phrase that should not have caught on.

 

[WillardNation]

Is it too forward of me to tell a guy I really like that really likes the way my posterior swells it's okay if he gives it a good squeeze? I'd been thinking that it would be fun to see how to get away with such fresh behavior in a public setting without people catching him goosing me. Was also thinking of keeping a score of how many times we've been caught and not caught too.

Yes, that's completely acceptable behavior.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

There's always a good and bad side to every situation, absolutely.

That's a biggie though, especially if she was cheating on the love of her life with some guy who ditched you both later. I don't believe in karma, but I do believe that our actions lead to consequences that may affect us far into the future.

Well she never said she cheated on him. I always got the impression it wasn't a committed relationship, but she wished it had been afterwards because she'd loved him for a long time and he was totally willing to raise a kid with her if it was his... unlike my Dad, who said right from the beginning he didn't want to have another family (I have two older half sisters I've met a couple of times).

But she's been talking a lot about karma, and how she's done similar things to men in her life to what her boyfriend has done to her now.

No problem with that, although you'll have to be happy being the submissive partner in the relationship in that case.

Well, that's not entirely true. If you want to be an ambitious alpha too, you have to be comfortable playing the beta role at times. And so will he. I know of ambitious couples who could both be alpha relative to the general population (my sister is in one, and one famous example is Bill and Hillary Clinton), but both partners can't be alpha at once. One will have to play the more supportive part sometimes. Or at least be okay with playing the more supportive part if that's what's needed.

I fully believe that's why most Hollywood marriages fall apart. Both partners want to be in the spotlight equally at the same time, and that rarely works out. Dueling ego, as it were, that are not fit to be in a long-term relationship to begin with.

Probably true.

I think that's why a lot of my relationships, even my friendships, are a constant power struggle. But sometimes you WANT to be submissive and have someone take the reigns and take care of you.... and other times you wanna yell 'Excuse me, but i'm perfectly capable of taking care of myself'.

I don't think anyone is alpha ALL the time.

Pick and choose what you want of your expectations. You're right - society and Hollywood tells us entirely unrealistic things. (I think rom coms are totally lame, I hate them with a passion!) But you can sit down and determine what YOU want out of a relationship.

Just because it happened to your mom, or even people around you, doesn't mean it will happen to you. People die, of course, but it's the attitude that makes the difference. If they are truly supportive partners, they will send you off the rest of your life the best way they know how.

The guy I met traveling? He's definitely in his 60s, and was looking forward to getting married to someone he had yet to meet, in two years.

I definitely don't think it's too late. My mum just doesn't wanna try again. And it's a small town... I don't really see where she's going to meet someone else.

It's also a lot easier if you have your health at 60, which obviously he did if he was travelling.

 

[Anita18]

Well she never said she cheated on him. I always got the impression it wasn't a committed relationship, but she wished it had been afterwards because she'd loved him for a long time and he was totally willing to raise a kid with her if it was his... unlike my Dad, who said right from the beginning he didn't want to have another family (I have two older half sisters I've met a couple of times).

But she's been talking a lot about karma, and how she's done similar things to men in her life to what her boyfriend has done to her now.

Yeah unfortunately, hindsight is always 20/20.

I guess I'm still young, but my friends who only believe in 100% committed relationships never end up in situations like that. (Not necessarily quick marriages, but the kind of relationships that get exclusive pretty quickly.) I think that's because they give off the vibe that they aren't going to stand for anything that resembles wishy-washy FWB. And I think if wishy-washy FWB is something you do yourself for a while, it's hard for you to set boundaries (even your own) when you DO want to commit 100%.

I don't believe in that kind of karma, that what you do in your 20's or 30's is gonna screw you over when you're older and you'll die forever alone. That's just the optimist in me speaking. I don't believe the world works like that. Maybe your mom just didn't have what it takes to establish boundaries and set some ground rules for a 100% committed relationship. It isn't anything she can't fix, if she's willing to look inside and make changes, at least.

Probably true.

I think that's why a lot of my relationships, even my friendships, are a constant power struggle. But sometimes you WANT to be submissive and have someone take the reigns and take care of you.... and other times you wanna yell 'Excuse me, but i'm perfectly capable of taking care of myself'.

I don't think anyone is alpha ALL the time.

Oh, I've met people who definitely try!

I definitely don't think it's too late. My mum just doesn't wanna try again. And it's a small town... I don't really see where she's going to meet someone else.

It's also a lot easier if you have your health at 60, which obviously he did if he was travelling.

To be fair, 60 really isn't that old now. You're either really unlucky genetically or treated your body like crap in your youth to be anywhere close to infirm at 60.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Maybe your mom just didn't have what it takes to establish boundaries and set some ground rules for a 100% committed relationship. It isn't anything she can't fix, if she's willing to look inside and make changes, at least.

I'm not sure what you mean. They were in a committed relationship for 8 years.

To be fair, 60 really isn't that old now. You're either really unlucky genetically or treated your body like crap in your youth to be anywhere close to infirm at 60.

That's just not true. People can get sick at any age, it doesn't always have to do with unlucky genetics or treating your body like crap.

My mum got diagnose with M.E. before I was even born. She also has been diagnosed with Fibramyalgia, an underactive thyroid and neuralgia. The last few years she's also been suffering with migranes.

I don't think 60 is that old either. But I know for a fact my mum does not have the capability to go travelling round the world.

On a good day, she can just about manage a few hours out of the house.

 

[L.A.]

well after a month I decided to go back on the dating scene. last week I started talking to one of my cousin friend over the phone and Skype. She going to school for her Lvn. we have been talking everynight since Tuesday and we decided to go on a date this Sunday. She is really old fashioned and wants me to ask permission from her parents to take her out. This will be my first date without my ex in 4 years. Almost all my friends and family are against this saying its too early that I'm still healing and vulnerable. Plus the fact that she is only 20. but I'm definitely going to take it slow this time around and watch all the warning signs I didn't see before in my previous relationship. Any tips or advice you guys want to give me?

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Well it sounds like if she's really old fashioned, going slow is what your going to have to do anyway.

There's nothing wrong with seeing where something goes, just be aware of the possibility of rebound feelings.

 

[Anita18]

I'm not sure what you mean. They were in a committed relationship for 8 years.

But he ended up betraying her in the way he did. Sure it maybe wasn't officially "cheating," but my coworker and his ex didn't start seeing other people until he had moved out and gotten his name off her car insurance, etc. It was simply an issue of respect.

Setting boundaries also means commanding the kind of respect he should have given her.

Or I dunno, maybe he just really is a manipulative a-hole and somehow hid it from you guys for 8 years. Some people just are and thus can't be explained or predicted.

That's just not true. People can get sick at any age, it doesn't always have to do with unlucky genetics or treating your body like crap.

My mum got diagnose with M.E. before I was even born. She also has been diagnosed with Fibramyalgia, an underactive thyroid and neuralgia. The last few years she's also been suffering with migranes.

I don't think 60 is that old either. But I know for a fact my mum does not have the capability to go travelling round the world.

On a good day, she can just about manage a few hours out of the house.

Yeah I meant unlucky with regards to epigenetics too, not just straight-up genetics. (Epigenetic means things from the outside that affect your genes.) Many cancer causes are epigenetic, like smoking. You damage your DNA and that is likely to lead to cancer. Lung cancer usually doesn't pop up randomly on its own, unless you are VERY unlucky genetically.

The fact that your mom has such afflictions is likely not her fault at all, but I can almost guarantee that it has to do with her genes, either straight-up or through epigenetics. Chronic illnesses often are, unfortunately. I'm really sorry your mom has such a hard time.

well after a month I decided to go back on the dating scene. last week I started talking to one of my cousin friend over the phone and Skype. She going to school for her Lvn. we have been talking everynight since Tuesday and we decided to go on a date this Sunday. She is really old fashioned and wants me to ask permission from her parents to take her out. This will be my first date without my ex in 4 years. Almost all my friends and family are against this saying its too early that I'm still healing and vulnerable. Plus the fact that she is only 20. but I'm definitely going to take it slow this time around and watch all the warning signs I didn't see before in my previous relationship. Any tips or advice you guys want to give me?

Only you know if you're ready, and if she wants to take it slow, it's definitely not a bad thing for you.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

But he ended up betraying her in the way he did. Sure it maybe wasn't officially "cheating," but my coworker and his ex didn't start seeing other people until he had moved out and gotten his name off her car insurance, etc. It was simply an issue of respect.

Setting boundaries also means commanding the kind of respect he should have given her.

Or I dunno, maybe he just really is a manipulative a-hole and somehow hid it from you guys for 8 years. Some people just are and thus can't be explained or predicted.

I'm sorry, i'm really still not getting you.

I mean, the way i'm reading it, it sounds like your saying that he betrayed her because she doesn't command commitment... which is just making my face scrunch up...

My mum is an incredibly commanding person. And believe me, she commanded respect and commitment from him.

But even if she wasn't as strong as she is, it still wouldn't be her fault.

You don't blame the woman for the man cheating...

And he's not manipulative, he's not hidden anything. He's just a person who made did something thoughtless and selfish because he couldn't deal with the break up in a mature way. People do thoughtless stuff all the time like that. Good people do bad things.

Yeah I meant unlucky with regards to epigenetics too, not just straight-up genetics. (Epigenetic means things from the outside that affect your genes.) Many cancer causes are epigenetic, like smoking. You damage your DNA and that is likely to lead to cancer. Lung cancer usually doesn't pop up randomly on its own, unless you are VERY unlucky genetically.

The fact that your mom has such afflictions is likely not her fault at all, but I can almost guarantee that it has to do with her genes, either straight-up or through epigenetics. Chronic illnesses often are, unfortunately. I'm really sorry your mom has such a hard time.

I'm afraid I must have missed your point with this one too then.

You said it's unusual for people to be ill of health at 60 other than for genetic reasons or body abuse.

And now you're saying ALL illnesses are genetic...

So basically, it's unusual for people to be ill of health at 60 unless they are unlucky enough to be ill...

Confused.com!

 

[Anita18]

I'm sorry, i'm really still not getting you.

I mean, the way i'm reading it, it sounds like your saying that he betrayed her because she doesn't command commitment... which is just making my face scrunch up...

My mum is an incredibly commanding person. And believe me, she commanded respect and commitment from him.

But even if she wasn't as strong as she is, it still wouldn't be her fault.

You don't blame the woman for the man cheating...

And he's not manipulative, he's not hidden anything. He's just a person who made did something thoughtless and selfish because he couldn't deal with the break up in a mature way. People do thoughtless stuff all the time like that. Good people do bad things.

I believe, in general, you attract certain kinds of people by your demeanor. But yeah, you're right, it doesn't explain every possible scenario under the sun.

Or he's just stupid and immature. That's definitely another possibility. I usually think more of people than that, but there definitely ARE stupid and immature people out there.

I don't believe it's as simple as "good people do bad things" like the way he betrayed her. He didn't just go out to a bar and schtup someone in the alley on a whim - he was dating another woman behind her back. He CHOSE to disrespect you and her in that way.

That's what I told my coworker when she got flowers from her husband because he "screwed up majorly," which amounted him to telling her she "should f*** someone if she wanted money" when she asked him for funds to replace THEIR son's school uniform, because it was the very least he could do as a father. I told her, "That's not a screw-up, he CHOSE to say that to you!"

To be fair, I didn't get to know him for 8 years like you and your mom did. But by that one scenario, I can say from an outsider's perspective, that he wasn't intelligent/mature enough to think through his actions, at best. At worst, he took advantage of you and your mom's hospitality.

To move on from such a thing, there's a balance of considering what your/your mom could have done differently (or what's in your power to change) and what he could have done differently. The blame is never one-sided in a relationship. Not even in my coworker's marriage, where they both treat each other like crap, but IMO his remark to her really took the cake.

I'm afraid I must have missed your point with this one too then.

You said it's unusual for people to be ill of health at 60 other than for genetic reasons or body abuse.

And now you're saying ALL illnesses are genetic...

So basically, it's unusual for people to be ill of health at 60 unless they are unlucky enough to be ill...

Confused.com!

I mean chronic illnesses like M.E. usually have a genetic component. It isn't caused directly by a pathogen.

Or hell, I guess if you consider it, everything is epigenetic since everything affects your genes. Now you're getting me confused!

But yeah unfortunately, it IS unusual for people to be ill of health at 60 unless they are unlucky. That is the truth. If they stay healthy, there's no reason for people of 60 to unable to go out and do stuff in general due solely to aging. And yeah, there are very ill 30-year-olds who can't do things for themselves. So youth doesn't always play a factor in health.

Most people do not have M.E. Your mom is one of the unlucky ones. I didn't know about the M.E. until you told me in the last few posts. Beforehand, you only mentioned the guy I met, and honestly I didn't think he was that unusual for traveling in his 60's.

To be fair, My mom isn't even 60 yet and she has major osteoporosis. That's not normal either, I fully admit. It hasn't affected her daily life since she's on prescriptions and it's manageable (as long as she doesn't fall), so I suppose she's still lucky in that regard.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I have to say, I have never liked that expression 'hot', to describe someone's sexual attractiveness or whatever, it just makes me think of standing against a radiator or a kettle or something. It just sounds like a beverley hillbillies type phrase that should not have caught on.

You know what? I've never been a fan of "hot" either, but I still find myself using it though...

On another note... I hadn't wanted it to take quite so long, but my girlfriend and I finally had a real serious talk about the intimacy issues we're facing, and why she's the way she is, and ultimately, a lot of it comes down to pretty much what Anita has said - she is young, inexperienced, it seems like she has put way way too much emphasis on things like kissing and sex, and so when they didn't lead to some magical moment (at least the kissing, she's still a virgin - and on another note I also told her I was as well, and she responded well to hearing that), it ruined the moment for her, and, well she didn't say these words but it seems like she felt a sense of regret. She seemed to agree that could very well have been the case when I told her that she probably just builds this stuff up in her mind way too much and builds it into something that it's really not.

It seems like her baggage is starting to come to the surface, but she seems very receptive when I try to talk to her about this stuff, and when I tell her what it is that I'm looking for out of the relationship on a physical level. I felt like I found a pretty firm balance of being clear and up front about what I am looking for out of the relationship, without putting pressure on her that she has to do things that she's uncomfortable with. Like I said, she was very receptive, we have a very good two way talk about everything, a lot of her personal stuff was put out there, stuff that she says she has never told anybody before, and we both agreed that now that the situation is out there, we can begin to address it.

 

[Anita18]

You know what? I've never been a fan of "hot" either, but I still find myself using it though...

On another note... I hadn't wanted it to take quite so long, but my girlfriend and I finally had a real serious talk about the intimacy issues we're facing, and why she's the way she is, and ultimately, a lot of it comes down to pretty much what Anita has said - she is young, inexperienced, it seems like she has put way way too much emphasis on things like kissing and sex, and so when they didn't lead to some magical moment (at least the kissing, she's still a virgin - and on another note I also told her I was as well, and she responded well to hearing that), it ruined the moment for her, and, well she didn't say these words but it seems like she felt a sense of regret. She seemed to agree that could very well have been the case when I told her that she probably just builds this stuff up in her mind way too much and builds it into something that it's really not.

It seems like her baggage is starting to come to the surface, but she seems very receptive when I try to talk to her about this stuff, and when I tell her what it is that I'm looking for out of the relationship on a physical level. I felt like I found a pretty firm balance of being clear and up front about what I am looking for out of the relationship, without putting pressure on her that she has to do things that she's uncomfortable with. Like I said, she was very receptive, we have a very good two way talk about everything, a lot of her personal stuff was put out there, stuff that she says she has never told anybody before, and we both agreed that now that the situation is out there, we can begin to address it.

Sounds good, Nell. I think as long as she's receptive to discussing things and open to changing her mind about certain things, things should be good.

And...yeah. I think it actually might have been good that my bf's first moves on me were totally awkward, because the expectation of it building up to THIS AWESOME ROMANIC THING totally did not come to pass. Of course we still had fun with each other and now we're very used what the other likes physically so there isn't as much awkwardness....but ya know, most of the intimacy stuff would potentially lead to major awkwardness anyway because real life is not like Hollywood romances.

In fact, the most romantic-looking sex scenes in Hollywood are choreographed to the millisecond. It's not real at all. Real life intimacy often involves bodily fluids where you don't want it, bodily noises when you aren't expecting it, some pain when you don't want it, and sometimes accidentally kicking your partner in the head. It can sometimes be a huge clusterf*** where nothing comes out "perfect" at all (magical moment my ass!), but all that matters is the person you're doing it with.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I believe, in general, you attract certain kinds of people by your demeanor. But yeah, you're right, it doesn't explain every possible scenario under the sun.

Or he's just stupid and immature. That's definitely another possibility. I usually think more of people than that, but there definitely ARE stupid and immature people out there.

I don't believe it's as simple as "good people do bad things" like the way he betrayed her. He didn't just go out to a bar and schtup someone in the alley on a whim - he was dating another woman behind her back. He CHOSE to disrespect you and her in that way.

That's what I told my coworker when she got flowers from her husband because he "screwed up majorly," which amounted him to telling her she "should f*** someone if she wanted money" when she asked him for funds to replace THEIR son's school uniform, because it was the very least he could do as a father. I told her, "That's not a screw-up, he CHOSE to say that to you!"

To be fair, I didn't get to know him for 8 years like you and your mom did. But by that one scenario, I can say from an outsider's perspective, that he wasn't intelligent/mature enough to think through his actions, at best. At worst, he took advantage of you and your mom's hospitality.

To move on from such a thing, there's a balance of considering what your/your mom could have done differently (or what's in your power to change) and what he could have done differently. The blame is never one-sided in a relationship. Not even in my coworker's marriage, where they both treat each other like crap, but IMO his remark to her really took the cake.
.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I know that he, for whatever bloody reason, doesn't think he's done anything wrong. He thought that because they were broken up, he was morally sound. And like I said, that's ridiculously thoughtless and selfish and inconsiderate and the fact he can't see that what he's done is wrong is just bullheaded. I think he's in denial. I think he doesn't WANT to see that what he thought was okay, just isn't.

But he's still a good person. He's still full of kindness and love. He still cares about my mum, even if he's got this mental block on accepting the pain he's caused by being so damn stupid.

For one thing, he's insisted she keeps almost all of the money from selling the house so that she can get a half decent place. If he'd been a horrible person, he would have demanded all his money back and left her to live in some ****** little apartment.

I mean chronic illnesses like M.E. usually have a genetic component. It isn't caused directly by a pathogen.

Or hell, I guess if you consider it, everything is epigenetic since everything affects your genes. Now you're getting me confused!

But yeah unfortunately, it IS unusual for people to be ill of health at 60 unless they are unlucky. That is the truth. If they stay healthy, there's no reason for people of 60 to unable to go out and do stuff in general due solely to aging. And yeah, there are very ill 30-year-olds who can't do things for themselves. So youth doesn't always play a factor in health.

Most people do not have M.E. Your mom is one of the unlucky ones. I didn't know about the M.E. until you told me in the last few posts. Beforehand, you only mentioned the guy I met, and honestly I didn't think he was that unusual for traveling in his 60's.

To be fair, My mom isn't even 60 yet and she has major osteoporosis. That's not normal either, I fully admit. It hasn't affected her daily life since she's on prescriptions and it's manageable (as long as she doesn't fall), so I suppose she's still lucky in that regard.

I guess it's just weird for me to swallow the opinion that at 60 people should be fairly healthy unless their unlucky... because the majority of 50+ year olds I know AREN'T healthy. They have one problem or another.

If anything i'd say it was LUCKY to get to 60 without getting any health problems. That's a pretty big achievement.

 

[Anita18]

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I know that he, for whatever bloody reason, doesn't think he's done anything wrong. He thought that because they were broken up, he was morally sound. And like I said, that's ridiculously thoughtless and selfish and inconsiderate and the fact he can't see that what he's done is wrong is just bullheaded. I think he's in denial. I think he doesn't WANT to see that what he thought was okay, just isn't.

But he's still a good person. He's still full of kindness and love. He still cares about my mum, even if he's got this mental block on accepting the pain he's caused by being so damn stupid.

For one thing, he's insisted she keeps almost all of the money from selling the house so that she can get a half decent place. If he'd been a horrible person, he would have demanded all his money back and left her to live in some ****** little apartment.

Nobody's all-bad or all-good. They're always a mix of the two, and you've got to decide if the bad is worth tolerating in a relationship or just plain doesn't matter to you.

Again, I don't know him as long as you have. I'm just giving an outsider's perspective on this very serious transgression. I think it's great you're acknowledging he's still a good person. A good person who can be damn boneheaded.

I guess it's just weird for me to swallow the opinion that at 60 people should be fairly healthy unless their unlucky... because the majority of 50+ year olds I know AREN'T healthy. They have one problem or another.

If anything i'd say it was LUCKY to get to 60 without getting any health problems. That's a pretty big achievement.

LOL, I'm pretty sure most people have at least minor aches and pains by the time they hit 50. It's just if it's manageable and people are otherwise able to live their life the way they want to.

People of my parents' generation are all hitting 60 now, and yeah, they've all got some issues. But none of them are really slowing them down. That's the gauge I'm using. I'm not claiming at all that 60-year-olds are able to keep up with 20-year-olds. I'm just responding to your assertion that it was lucky the guy I mentioned was still traveling in his 60s. Where I'm from and what I know, that's really not all that unusual.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Maybe it's just different where i'm from I dunno! Or maybe I just happen to know a lot of very unfortunate people!

I hope i'm still healthy at 60

Thing is, if it was me, i'd totally be willing to try again at 60. I just don't think my mum will make the effort. She said she can't even think about it right now, but I mean she never had a boyfriend the first 14 years of my life, so I can see her just not bothering again now that this one's gone to pot.

Same with pets. I asked her if she'd think about getting another pet, and she said she wasn't sure about the future but definitely not at the moment. I really wish she would though, it's such an easy form of companionship.

At least she's decided to buy a flat that's right next to her best friend, her cousin, and my grandma. If she feels sad she's literally only gotta go up stairs to talk to someone.

 

[Erzengel]

You know what? I've never been a fan of "hot" either, but I still find myself using it though...

On another note... I hadn't wanted it to take quite so long, but my girlfriend and I finally had a real serious talk about the intimacy issues we're facing, and why she's the way she is, and ultimately, a lot of it comes down to pretty much what Anita has said - she is young, inexperienced, it seems like she has put way way too much emphasis on things like kissing and sex, and so when they didn't lead to some magical moment (at least the kissing, she's still a virgin - and on another note I also told her I was as well, and she responded well to hearing that), it ruined the moment for her, and, well she didn't say these words but it seems like she felt a sense of regret. She seemed to agree that could very well have been the case when I told her that she probably just builds this stuff up in her mind way too much and builds it into something that it's really not.

It seems like her baggage is starting to come to the surface, but she seems very receptive when I try to talk to her about this stuff, and when I tell her what it is that I'm looking for out of the relationship on a physical level. I felt like I found a pretty firm balance of being clear and up front about what I am looking for out of the relationship, without putting pressure on her that she has to do things that she's uncomfortable with. Like I said, she was very receptive, we have a very good two way talk about everything, a lot of her personal stuff was put out there, stuff that she says she has never told anybody before, and we both agreed that now that the situation is out there, we can begin to address it.

Great that you haven't good communication. After more, maybe you 2 are ready to progress a little more physically.

 

[Anita18]

Maybe it's just different where i'm from I dunno! Or maybe I just happen to know a lot of very unfortunate people!

I hope i'm still healthy at 60

Maybe!

It helps that my circle is mostly upper-middle-class though, so if we have issues, we can pay to fix them. Although since it's the US and I'm not really swimming in money like my parents' generation, I'm still scare of getting bankrupt if something happens to me.

Thing is, if it was me, i'd totally be willing to try again at 60. I just don't think my mum will make the effort. She said she can't even think about it right now, but I mean she never had a boyfriend the first 14 years of my life, so I can see her just not bothering again now that this one's gone to pot.

Same with pets. I asked her if she'd think about getting another pet, and she said she wasn't sure about the future but definitely not at the moment. I really wish she would though, it's such an easy form of companionship.

At least she's decided to buy a flat that's right next to her best friend, her cousin, and my grandma. If she feels sad she's literally only gotta go up stairs to talk to someone.

Dogs and cats are a good 10 years of commitment if you get them as babies, but from where I am, you're often doing the animal a favor, especially if you adopt from a shelter! And if you adopt an older animal, obviously that's less commitment time, and often less headache cause baby animals are kind of a handful!

That's how I got my kitty. A friend of my roommate's couldn't bring his cat to his new apartment and was gonna put him in a shelter and my bf and I were like, "NO." This cat is big and fat and not a kitten and not unusual-looking in the least, and so his chances were pretty much 0 that he'd get adopted out. So we saved him, and now he likes to spend his days sleeping on my stomach and purring.

If she's used to being alone, not being in a relationship won't be so bad. Since they were gonna break up anyway, I don't think that's the part that upset her so much. It's the fact she was betrayed as she did. And yeah, being close to family and friends will help a lot!

Great that you haven't good communication. After more, maybe you 2 are ready to progress a little more physically.

Tell Nell what you really mean.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Great that you haven't good communication. After more, maybe you 2 are ready to progress a little more physically.

I think so. She's been very receptive whenever I've wanted to bring something up about the relationship, and it was nice that both she opened up to me, and that I didn't have to tip toe around what I wanted to say. We both were able to say exactly what we felt, and there were no hurt feelings, and while it's still going to be a work in progress, I definitely got a sense from her that she wants to progress as well. It seems though, in talking with her, it wasn't her ex boyfriend that did a number on her, but rather the fact that she did a number on herself.

But yes, as long as there is open communication, I believe that is the most important step towards working through any issues. She didn't even show any major qualms with me telling her I wasn't a fan of waiting until marriage for sex (probably helps that I also made it very clear to her that waiting is something I'm okay with), and I also explained - and she seemed to at the very least understand my point of view and where I was coming from - that her choice for waiting until marriage could very well be part of the problem with her building this stuff up so much in her head as something that it's really not.

Also - confidence issues are not to be dismissed here, as she made another big comment saying she's not "good" at making out.

 

[Anita18]

Anoher big comment saying she's not "good" at making out.

Oh, to be that naive again. It's so cute.

My fiance and my best friend's hubby aren't so good at the making out part either. They both want to stick it in, pretty much right away.

 

[Erzengel]

I'm awesome at making out.

But, Nell, it'll come naturally. (That's what she said.)

Just remember that like relationships, sex is also about communication. You like this, you like that, keep doing that. What's that? Where do you want to put that? Etc.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I'm good at making out. I'm good at sex and I'm a little baffled when people say they aren't or when they aren't. I think its mostly anxiety.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I'm good at making out. I'm good at sex and I'm a little baffled when people say they aren't or when they aren't. I think its mostly anxiety.