Man Of Steel Soars @ Comic Con - Part 2

[Joeyjojo72]

Those are three to four big sins all rolled into one Darth. All of them were terrible mistakes.

Dude just move on. The verdict has been in for a long while now. Lets focus on MoS.

 

[BH/HHH]

you kidding?

With the kid in the story they backed themselves into a corner, and the film didn't get a sniff of a sequel.

Definitely if they had done a sequel they either would have made Superman a home wrecker or killed Richard making Lois only choose Superman because Richard had snuffed it. Would have been more disastrous. Infact actually was Superman gonna have to kill his son who had been taken over by Brainiac? Even more ridiculous.

Anyway agreed with Joey let's concentrate on MOS.

 

[Lead Cenobite]

SR was lazy in its reliance on the previous films. It was lazy in it's ideas, in it's aspirations. It was content to be (at best) an homage. Im sure Singer & co. worked very hard on this movie as far as time and effort go. But the film needed to be a true reboot, with ZERO connection to the Donner movies. They had decades of Superman stuff (comics, novels, animated series/films, pre-donner material, etc.)to draw from, and instead they went back to the same old well. Terrible decision. With the result being utter irrelevance from a cultural standpoint, and tedium from an entertainment standpoint. Its telling that by far the most spectacular sequence in the movie was a mash-up of two scenes from SM1 (the air force one and lois falling rescues).

The re-use of the Williams theme is a perfect example of this laziness. Just awful.

Of course casting and characterization were also a big issue. Spacey playing a con artist version of Hackman's Lex and a flat out terrible Kate Bosworth didnt help matters either.

Anyhoo, back on topic: Do we know if there will be a Lex cameo in this?

Why is reusing the Williams theme so terrible in a movie that's meant to be a sequel? It's not as if they did what most of the Reeve sequels did and reuse his whole damn score without coming up with anything new (Superman II and III mainly). And making the movie a sequel wasn't the main problem. There was nothing about the Donner universe that precluded the existence of most of Superman's rogue's gallery like some people seem to believe. The only thing it really stood in the way of was everyone's beloved businessman Lex. Lex doesn't need to be a businessman to be interesting, period.

 

[BH/HHH]

Using the Williams theme is one of the reasons I like Superman Returns.

 

[Zionite1]

A superman film where Superman does not throw a punch is not a Superman film

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Those are three to four big sins all rolled into one Darth. All of them were terrible mistakes.

Dude just move on. The verdict has been in for a long while now. Lets focus on MoS.

I am not the one who keeps bringing it up. Some just can't stop taking unnecessary shots.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

A superman film where Superman does not throw a punch is not a Superman film

I really, really, really hope this is a joke.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Superman isn't about punching. Granted, he does fight a lot of people, but I do believe that you can make a good Superman film without him hitting anyone. I don't believe he threw a punch in Superman '78, though I might be mistaken; it's been a while since I've seen it.

The problem with SR (one of them, anyway) was not that Superman didn't fight anyone. It's that he didn't do anything interesting at all. He was just there to lift giant objects. He had almost no characterization and what little he gave them didn't even make sense. Okay, so Superman was gone for five years because he thought there were Kryptonians still alive on the remains of his old planet. That's fine. But you're telling me he didn't even have the time to drop by Lois' place for five minutes and say, "Hey, I have to take off for a little while," yet he DID have time to tell Martha to send postcards from around the world, supposedly from Clark?

They might have loved the Superman character, but they had no idea how to write the character.

 

[Zionite1]

I really, really, really hope this is a joke.

Im actually quite serious.Superman was created to be a modern day Hercules a Champion who fights-Fights-for Justice.If there is no fighting-well WTF.
A superhero film with no actual battle fails so badly it cant be called one.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Wait, did he punch anyone in STM? Dont think so. He punched a wall or two.

He probably does some punching in this movie, if thats what you're looking for. Kryptonians are highly punchable. Humans, not so much. They tend to go squish.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Superman isn't about punching. Granted, he does fight a lot of people, but I do believe that you can make a good Superman film without him hitting anyone. I don't believe he threw a punch in Superman '78, though I might be mistaken; it's been a while since I've seen it.

The problem with SR (one of them, anyway) was not that Superman didn't fight anyone. It's that he didn't do anything interesting at all. He was just there to lift giant objects. He had almost no characterization and what little he gave them didn't even make sense. Okay, so Superman was gone for five years because he thought there were Kryptonians still alive on the remains of his old planet. That's fine. But you're telling me he didn't even have the time to drop by Lois' place for five minutes and say, "Hey, I have to take off for a little while," yet he DID have time to tell Martha to send postcards from around the world, supposedly from Clark?

They might have loved the Superman character, but they had no idea how to write the character.

Ok my last word on the subject. At least I hope.

The reason he didn't tell Lois is because couldn't bare seeing her again, because of the pain it would cause him. Either he wouldn't be able to leave because leaving her would be too hard or because it very well would of been the last time he ever saw her and it would crush his soul. What do you say to the love of your existence in such a situation?

That right there shows how much they understand Kal-El. The fact that he feels and understands human emotions more then any human.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Wait, did he punch anyone in STM? Dont think so. He punched a wall or two.

He probably does some punching in this movie, if thats what you're looking for. Kryptonians are highly punchable. Humans, not so much. They tend to go squish.

Unless those humans have been altered by Kryptonite. Sorry, Smaville flashbacks.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

That does bring up the dilemma of how to handle the whole Supes vs Luthor plot in future movies. Im sure Lex will employ surrogates for any actual fights, but maybe a kryptonite-powered battle suit could be in play for a climactic battle.

The problem is: How do you surpass an all-kryptonian battle scene in a potential sequel without recycling the MoS villains? Doomsday? Darkseid? Either could work, but doesnt this relegate Lex to sub-plot status?

 

[KalMart]

Wait, did he punch anyone in STM? Dont think so. He punched a wall or two.

How many other superhero movies...and/or other big action movies....were out there at the time compared to today?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That does bring up the dilemma of how to handle the whole Supes vs Luthor plot in future movies. Im sure Lex will employ surrogates for any actual fights, but maybe a kryptonite-powered battle suit could be in play for a climactic battle.

After All Start Superman, if you can't figure out how to do Lex Luthor vs. Superman right, you don't deserve to touch the material.

The man is a mad scientist. He's got this.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Fair enough. But All Star Superman's tone is a far cry from where they seem to be going with MoS.

I agree completely that Lex has to be a Machiavellian super-genius, someone who was truly poised to eventually conquer the world before Supes came along and spoiled things. He needs to be a badass, not comic relief.

Maybe Lex could create a Doomsday-type creature using his own genius plus some salvaged Kryptonian tech. Like all mad scientist plots, things go awry, and Superman sacrifices himself (hes only mostly dead of course) to save the planet. All the ruckus on earth gets the attention of a certain someone, who via a messenger, visits Lex in prison and informs him that Supes aint dead and makes him an offer he cant refuse. The rest writes itself.

 

[roach]

Im actually quite serious.Superman was created to be a modern day Hercules a Champion who fights-Fights-for Justice.If there is no fighting-well WTF.
A superhero film with no actual battle fails so badly it cant be called one.

I think you need to go back and watch Superman the movie

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Fair enough. But All Star Superman's tone is a far cry from where they seem to be going with MoS.

I agree completely that Lex has to be a Machiavellian super-genius, someone who was truly poised to eventually conquer the world before Supes came along and spoiled things. He needs to be a badass, not comic relief.

Maybe Lex could create a Doomsday-type creature using his own genius plus some salvaged Kryptonian tech. Like all mad scientist plots, things go awry, and Superman sacrifices himself (hes only mostly dead of course) to save the planet. All the ruckus on earth gets the attention of a certain someone, who via a messenger, visits Lex in prison and informs him that Supes aint dead and makes him an offer he cant refuse. The rest writes itself.

I get your point on the tone, but that Luthor should be universal. When in the final issue Lex complains about how Superman has basically stopped him from "saving the world" and Superman points out that if that was truly what he wanted, he would of been doing it years ago, it encapsulated everything that makes Lex the man he is. If he put his mind to it, he could cure cancer and the common cold, save the rain forest and give Earth clean, reusable energy. But no, not Lex. He is too arrogant, too self-important to do such things. Only when it suits him and his agenda would he even consider it.

He is the one guy who could casually hang out with the Joker, and have better odds at not getting shot in the face.

 

[Zionite1]

How many other superhero movies...and/or other big action movies....were out there at the time compared to today?

Exactly.STM succeded beacuse it had no competition.Fans like it because of the nostalgai.It prevents them from seeing it accurately.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Works for me. Something between AS Lex and Red Son Lex would be my personal ideal.

And guys lets stop rehashing the past. This movie, good or bad, is a fresh take on the material. Lets stick to the topic at hand.

 

[roach]

Exactly.STM succeded beacuse it had no competition.Fans like it because of the nostalgai.It prevents them from seeing it accurately.

Sorry but I don't buy it. I saw superman the movie when it was in theaters...people genuinely loved the movie

Does it have flaws? Yes. Every movie does.

 

[charl_huntress]

The problem is: How do you surpass an all-kryptonian battle scene in a potential sequel without recycling the MoS villains? Doomsday? Darkseid? Either could work, but doesnt this relegate Lex to sub-plot status?

You bring in Prof. Hamilton and make him RUIN. He's a perfect partner for Lex.

edit: Or you can bring in Corben and make him like a Terminator powered by green K

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Sorry but I don't buy it. I saw superman the movie when it was in theaters...people genuinely loved the movie

Does it have flaws? Yes. Every movie does.

Not Raging Bull.

 

[Zorex]

Exactly.STM succeded beacuse it had no competition.Fans like it because of the nostalgai.It prevents them from seeing it accurately.

I think your assertion is... amusing. But, oh heck, explain "seeing it accurately" to me.

 

[Zionite1]

I think your assertion is... amusing. But, oh heck, explain "seeing it accurately" to me.

If fans could see it accurately they would be super mad.At the campiness,corniness,the lack of a proper character arc for Clark,The fact that it is not an accurate representation of the Superman comics,the incredible lack of action for a Superman movie,the overly bearing Christ themes,the potrayal of Superman as Godman etc.
Superman succeded because it was the first true Superhero cbm.The start of a genre-a new era.That will always put in on a pedestal despite the fact its mediocre at best.The fact it was most fans first big screen exposure to Superman gives it a special place in their hearts-so any bad said about it will be deemed stupid.Truth is its nostalgia talking simply as that