The Dark Knight Rises Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VII (Team Frenchie Edition)

[lililatigresse]

There's already a GIF of her death scene... OMG. Poor Marion.

It was really bad though I don't know how Nolan thought it was a good idea to keep it.
I really don't know what the hell happened with this film, it's like they all ate/drank something wrong or something.

 

[Spuzz]

It was really bad though I don't know how Nolan thought it was a good idea to keep it.
I really don't know what the hell happened with this film, it's like they all ate/drank something wrong or something.

Whatever they ate/drank I want some of it!

TDKR was a thoughtful, layered, and earnest piece of work and a superb Batman movie/finale to the trilogy. Sure it had a LOT of parts where a suspension of disbelief is required and it had its cheesey moments like Talia's death. But you guys are literally getting all uptight about the way a character's head slumped to the side overdramatically!!! The script was fantastic! The cast too! The action, music all of it! Why nitpick? I understand that's what the internet is for, anonymous nitpicking people who couldn't make a better movie themselves if they tried...but I don't see the point of joining in on that sorry. I'm also not some "Hey movies are for turnin ya brain off and havin fun n eatin pop corns! Guhuk!" kind of guy either. I know what goes into filmmaking and view all moves as experiences that are had for more than just the sake of "having fun". This, in my opinion, was one such film that really dared to a lot of things differently than the past two in the series had. Shouldn't the Nolans be praised for their pure boldness alone even if you didn't like what they did? If you disagree I not only can see how you could (the aformentioned flaws, or maybe it just wasn't your thing. maybe TDK made your hopes too high.) but I respect your opinion. Let's try to respect and enjoy TDKR's strengths. Lord knows we've spent enough time tearing it a new one over small trivial details.

 

[jmc]

Oh come on. That reveal is just as predictable and you know it.

Well I'm sorry we all can't be a smart as you and figure out Liam Neeson was the real Ra's al Ghul on our first viewing of Begins.

 

[dark_b]

did they need Talia in the movie? thats the question right? well if you have LOS you need Talia. she is part of Ra's story and he is LOS. i think it would be insulting to have bane part of the LOS and ignore Talia.

i think we fans on the internet are asking the wrong question. the question should always be '' why was Bane part of the LOS and why have LOS back''. no LOS means no Talia. Bane's character would have time to breath.
why is this an important question? because the LOS members in TDKR are not real hardcore LOS members. they are simple guys with guns. the LOS members in BB were all trained.

i think this was a big mistake when they started writting.

 

[jmc]

^ Another valid point, I brought that up ages ago when the possibility emerged of this plot device, if this LoS is vastly different to the one in Begins what's the point in them being called the LoS? Essentially the only reason Bane and his henchmen are tied to the LoS is for Talia's purpose, that's it.

 

[Greens]

Well I'm sorry we all can't be a smart as you and figure out Liam Neeson was the real Ra's al Ghul on our first viewing of Begins.

I did NOT expect that twist when I first saw it.

 

[The Joker]

I was always against the LOS coming back. Now I know I was justified in being against it. Bane didn't need to be part of them. He could easily have been a mercenary of his own, with a unique agenda that was not a rehash of Batman Begins.

Nolan went too far in his efforts to bring it full circle. Bringing back the LOS, peppering the movie with needless BB flashbacks and lines etc.

 

[dark_b]

^ Another valid point, I brought that up ages ago when the possibility emerged of this plot device, if this LoS is vastly different to the one in Begins what's the point in them being called the LoS? Essentially the only reason Bane and his henchmen are tied to the LoS is for Talia's purpose, that's it.

you know a big reason why LOS doesnt work with Bane ? LOS has a big history of training members. Bane is a fantastic warrior. but i thought that he is so good because he devoted time to learn it all by himself. i am not saying that if you are trained by the LOS that its piece of cake. but there is something badass when you train all your life . in a way the reason Bane defeats batman is because they are both trained by LOS.

second reason why Bane being part of LOS is bad. Bane knows that Bruce Wayne is batman. lets think about i for a second. if Bane is not part of the LOS and he finds out..........it makes him a strong badass with a brain. i am sorry but with all due respect TDKR defenders. there is no scene in the movie that would show a hint that Bane found it by himself. he knows because of LOS and because of Talia.
isnt this why Bane is so praised? he is one of the smartest an strongest Batman villains. LOS destroys almost everyhing good about Bane.

in 2011 when you guys explained Bane to me i had goosebums. this guy comes to Gotham and wants to make it his prison. and first he needs to destroy Batman. a lot from the plan in TDKR could be combined with the comicbook plan.

 

[Greens]

I really like the film but I feel it would have been better if they left out the LOS stuff and Talia.

 

[joker1524]

The Los and Talia just brought things full cirlce...i dont think this film needed to go this direction

 

[dark_b]

i thinks its possible to have a batman script with two female characters. but i think Catwoman and Talia dont work in the same movie together. both are just to important to Bruce Wayne. its already hard to writte a story with Catwoman or Talia alone. but together ? i dont think it can be done. you have to pick character will get the most screentime. the other girl will have to be underdeveloped.

 

[jmc]

you know a big reason why LOS doesnt work with Bane ? LOS has a big history of training members. Bane is a fantastic warrior. but i thought that he is so good because he devoted time to learn it all by himself. i am not saying that if you are trained by the LOS that its piece of cake. but there is something badass when you train all your life . in a way the reason Bane defeats batman is because they are both trained by LOS.

second reason why Bane being part of LOS is bad. Bane knows that Bruce Wayne is batman. lets think about i for a second. if Bane is not part of the LOS and he finds out..........it makes him a strong badass with a brain. i am sorry but with all due respect TDKR defenders. there is no scene in the movie that would show a hint that Bane found it by himself. he knows because of LOS and because of Talia.
isnt this why Bane is so praised? he is one of the smartest an strongest Batman villains. LOS destroys almost everyhing good about Bane.

in 2011 when you guys explained Bane to me i had goosebums. this guy comes to Gotham and wants to make it his prison. and first he needs to destroy Batman. a lot from the plan in TDKR could be combined with the comicbook plan.

The real shame is I can see glimpses of where they could have taken this character and that's what annoys me the most. Instead they've built him around the Talia reveal. That would have been perfectly fine if Talia was a far more developed character and one who's relationship with Bruce went far, far deeper then what happens in the movie. Like Ra's in Begins, like Dent in TDK, she's the character we had to care about in order for this revelation to have any true impact, we should have been hoping to hell that she didn't turn on him, and when she did the emotional knife wound it should have been felt by all of us. Instead because the two barely share any screen time it comes across as a pointless reveal. People say it does its purpose, that's true, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's good or is executed in the best way, which it isn't. I keep think about how much better, and frightening Bane could have been had his plans not been tied to LoS. I've said before if you're going 'full circle', there needs to be a reason for it, and I feel like this was done in Rises just for the sake of it as opposed to have valid reason to do so.

 

[herolee10]

If she's just going to say "beloved" to Bane rather than Bruce then yeah I'm glad we didn't get that at all. That's like Ra's saying "detective" to say John Blake.

Well technically speaking, he is still a detective.

 

[Baneis8feettall]

They needed Talia. For shocking audience with misleading her past story and reveal as a villain. Also she was the glue between Ra's, Bane, Batman and made Bane's characterization richer.If you put Talia out of movie, you must re-write all most everything from beginning.

Also we were already spoiled as Talia is in the movie,the kid will be Talia and she is gonna stab Batman. (of course geniuses in SHH would still easily figured out without all of these major spoilers)

That's why there is a huge difference between SSH posters and general audience about Talia twist.

 

[The Batman]

And yet another person misses the point of why people are criticizing Talia's involvement.

 

[Spuzz]

And yet another person misses the point of why people are criticizing Talia's involvement.

Just become someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean they're missing your point.

For example, I get your point. You explained it very well. Yet still...I disagree! Whattaya know!

 

[The Batman]

Just become someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean they're missing your point.

For example, I get your point. You explained it very well. Yet still...I disagree! Whattaya know!

There's a difference between disagreeing and implying that people are just disappointed because they were spoiled on something.


Whattaya know!

 

[herolee10]

Truth be told, the only real times that I found Miranda to be interesting and full of life was:

1. When Fox and Bruce showed her the fusion reactor the first time; the way she seemed so invested and interested in the project, along with her reaction when the floor started descending.

2. For what it's worth, I actually enjoyed their "intimate" scenes, despite how empty it was in the long run of things...just for that moment right then and there.lol

 

[Baneis8feettall]

There's a difference between disagreeing and implying that people are just disappointed because they were spoiled on something.


Whattaya know!

I haven't say people dissapointed on characterization of Talia just because they are spoiled.I say the main reason most of us didn't enjoy in reveal or the twist greatly because of that.

I thought it was clear enough.

 

[Superman Lives]

I was always against the LOS coming back. Now I know I was justified in being against it. Bane didn't need to be part of them. He could easily have been a mercenary of his own, with a unique agenda that was not a rehash of Batman Begins.

Exactly. That is what I wanted.

There was actually no need for Talia, LOS, or Catwoman. Bane should have been the big bad with his own plan. The movie would have flowed much better.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

I wonder when Grant Morrison learned of Talia being in the script... Nolan's Talia certainly has elements of modern Talia.

Spoiler

Batman Inc. #2 (focused on his Talia origin story which was timed for release in June about a month before the film)

Poor Bruce was stuck for so long on [blackout]Bane == Ra's son[/blackout]. I remember one of the mods was here on SHH was hinting for a little while that that element was in the film months ago.

Spoiler

 

[herolee10]

Honestly, my issue was neither Talia being in the film or even her secret reveal, and it certainly wasn't the choice in actress portraying the role.

It was how she was used that I had gripes with.

Honestly, I'm up for any twist or secret reveal if it's executed well. Ducard being revealed as the real Ra's was definitely an great example on how those types of plot devices can be brilliantly portrayed on screen.

My problem was the overall characterization of Talia. When Ra's wanted to destroy Gotham, he at least had a real basis for it since Gotham was literally Earth's version of Sodom and Gomorrah and Batman still had A LOT of work to do before he could make a difference. The only real difference is that Bruce saw hope and potential within the people of Gotham whereas Ra's did not.

The Joker set out to make a point, a point that wasn't far off from the truth when you consider on how he was able to make everyone within Gotham city, good or bad, react to his methods.

Now granted, Gotham may not have been the most angelic city there is, but I honestly didn't see enough corruption within the city to justify what Talia wanted to do. She was only using her father's name and legacy as a excuse to carry out her plans, which I found to be pretty weak and contrived.

Plus, she wasn't shown doing enough on screen that could make me believe her as a serious threat and her partnership with Bane didn't make him look as threatening as I thought he was in the sense where I thought Bane was a man in control of himself, answering to no one else.

Talia's and Bane's plan was to simply destroy Gotham, it was a suicide mission. There was no hidden meaning or anything to their plans that made me question things like how the Joker's and Ra's plans did.

And it didn't help that Talia had a horrible exit at the end of the story.

 

[Brother Jack]

Talia's and Bane's plan was to simply destroy Gotham, it was a suicide mission. There was no hidden meaning or anything to their plans that made me question things like how the Joker's and Ra's plans did.

Well, Bane said that the detonator to the bomb was in the hands of an ordinary citizen so when it went off it would look to the outside world as though Gotham destroyed itself ala the fear gas attack in Begins. That was part of the purpose behind Bane's revolution, to upend the social order and create unrest that would appear to end with the citizens destroying the city. Gotham was to be made an example of to the rest of the world in that way. It was an illusion, but there was a message in it.

 

[herolee10]

Well, Bane said that the detonator to the bomb was in the hands of an ordinary citizen so when it went off it would look to the outside world as though Gotham destroyed itself ala the fear gas attack in Begins. That was part of the purpose behind Bane's revolution, to upend the social order and create unrest that would appear to end with the citizens destroying the city. Gotham was to be made an example of to the rest of the world in that way. It was an illusion, but there was a message in it.

True; but a part of me didn't really enjoy on how Bane and Talia didn't seemingly appear as though they had plans to survive after the explosion, that Gotham was their end all-be all situation. The Joker at least appeared to be interested in controlling Gotham in his world of chaos, and my assumption of Ra's is that he would have continued on with scouting for cities that were on the verge of destroying itself apart as usual after he was done with Gotham.

Bane came off as such a larger than life character that I kind of felt cheated in seeing that he didn't supposedly intend on living past Gotham's destruction.

Someone as resourceful and strong as him looks credible enough where he could have started planning to take down the US government from within.

 

[kvz5]

Truth be told, the only real times that I found Miranda to be interesting and full of life was:

1. When Fox and Bruce showed her the fusion reactor the first time; the way she seemed so invested and interested in the project, along with her reaction when the floor started descending.

2. For what it's worth, I actually enjoyed their "intimate" scenes, despite how empty it was in the long run of things...just for that moment right then and there.lol

The real problem with the character really is just the lack of development especially in the beginning. They could've made her more interesting. The character has so much promise.

I liked her sassiness in her first appearance in the movie when she put Daggett on his place. And yeah I liked the intimate scene too if we're just talking about that scene alone and not the context of it in the story. I mean, how can I really complain with wet Bale and Marion making out?