The Dark Knight Rises Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate

[Godzilla2014]

I think she may be Talia and undercover for LoS. But she actually develops feelings for him when she sees his philanthropy ect. Than when Bane messes him up she tells him of the Lazarus Pit and her true identity.

I doubt it and I hope not. Talia would be redundant since we already have Catwoman in the film.

 

[The_Raganork]

I doubt it and I hope not. Talia would be redundant since we already have Catwoman in the film.

Why does having two women equate to being redundant?

Talia and Selena are almost nothing alike.

While I understand she might not be Talia, if she was I'd like to see it like this:

Miranda Tate has been working close to Bruce helping him regain his father's legacy. Bruce has put Batman on the back burner instead deciding to be Bruce Wayne more than Bats. When Bane enters town and Catwoman, Bruce is unsure if he can trust Catwoman (like always) she doesn't follow the same Moral code and Gordon has got this task force and the police on Batman, with no one to trust he turns to Tate.

But Tate is setting him up, just when Bruce becomes Gotham's golden boy again she reveals to the world HE is Batman, the man who murdered five people two of them cops and Gotham feels lost.

This revelation makes the people give up and collapse, just as her father planned. Economics Failed, The Fear Toxin Failed but, the spirit of Gotham is lost in what appears to be the Betrayal of Bat/Bruce

 

[TheBatman072]

Why does having two women equate to being redundant?

Talia and Selena are almost nothing alike.

While I understand she might not be Talia, if she was I'd like to see it like this:

Miranda Tate has been working close to Bruce helping him regain his father's legacy. Bruce has put Batman on the back burner instead deciding to be Bruce Wayne more than Bats. When Bane enters town and Catwoman, Bruce is unsure if he can trust Catwoman (like always) she doesn't follow the same Moral code and Gordon has got this task force and the police on Batman, with no one to trust he turns to Tate.

But Tate is setting him up, just when Bruce becomes Gotham's golden boy again she reveals to the world HE is Batman, the man who murdered five people two of them cops and Gotham feels lost.

This revelation makes the people give up and collapse, just as her father planned. Economics Failed, The Fear Toxin Failed but, the spirit of Gotham is lost in what appears to be the Betrayal of Bat/Bruce

Ew.

 

[The_Raganork]

Ew.

Darn I was rather proud of that idea :/

 

[Godzilla2014]

Why does having two women equate to being redundant?

Talia and Selena are almost nothing alike.

While I understand she might not be Talia, if she was I'd like to see it like this:

Miranda Tate has been working close to Bruce helping him regain his father's legacy. Bruce has put Batman on the back burner instead deciding to be Bruce Wayne more than Bats. When Bane enters town and Catwoman, Bruce is unsure if he can trust Catwoman (like always) she doesn't follow the same Moral code and Gordon has got this task force and the police on Batman, with no one to trust he turns to Tate.

But Tate is setting him up, just when Bruce becomes Gotham's golden boy again she reveals to the world HE is Batman, the man who murdered five people two of them cops and Gotham feels lost.

This revelation makes the people give up and collapse, just as her father planned. Economics Failed, The Fear Toxin Failed but, the spirit of Gotham is lost in what appears to be the Betrayal of Bat/Bruce

Talia is redundant not because of her character, but both of her (traditional) story roles as love interest/femme fatale is already filled by Selina Kyle/Catwoman. Hence, she would be redundant.

 

[GregComicFan]

Talia is redundant not because of her character, but both of her (traditional) story roles as love interest/femme fatale is already filled by Selina Kyle/Catwoman. Hence, she would be redundant.

Maybe Nolan won't let Talia be a love interest at all. Maybe as Miranda she will act as a love interest, but once she reveales herself as Talia all that goes out the window. I think it's more important to have Batman/Catwoman intertwined in a romantic relationship than it is to have Bats/Talia. With Ras Al Ghul gone, the conflict of Ras-VS-Bats-but-Talia-is-Ras-daughter-and-loves-Bruce is not going to happen. Plus, general audiences won't know who Talia is, and won't know that she is supposed to be in love with Bruce.

I could see Nolan having Bat/Cat in a romantic relationship, and not so much Talia...

 

[Godzilla2014]

Maybe Nolan won't let Talia be a love interest at all. Maybe as Miranda she will act as a love interest, but once she reveales herself as Talia all that goes out the window. I think it's more important to have Batman/Catwoman intertwined in a romantic relationship than it is to have Bats/Talia. With Ras Al Ghul gone, the conflict of Ras-VS-Bats-but-Talia-is-Ras-daughter-and-loves-Bruce is not going to happen. Plus, general audiences won't know who Talia is, and won't know that she is supposed to be in love with Bruce.

I could see Nolan having Bat/Cat in a romantic relationship, and not so much Talia...

There isn't a need for another love interest at all.
Why is Talia at all necessary?

 

[The_Raganork]

There isn't a need for another love interest at all.
Why is Talia at all necessary?

She might not be but,she would be a wonderful vehicle to use to explore Bruce's past, why he became Batman and how his ideals and implementation of his LoS training has changed.

While Selena is the person he can't be because she's not afraid to go too far and do what NEEDs to be done, Talia is the mirror image of that in a different way. Ruthless and sometimes Cruel he's stuck between two people a past and a future and he has to make a choice to which one he feels he can trust

 

[Godzilla2014]

She might not be but,she would be a wonderful vehicle to use to explore Bruce's past, why he became Batman and how his ideals and implementation of his LoS training has changed.

We don't need Talia for that. We already saw Bruce implementing of the lessons that Henri Ducard/Ra's al Ghul taught him in both BATMAN BEGINS & THE DARK KNIGHT without needing Talia or Ra's al Ghul (in the latter). We already explored Bruce Wayne's past in BATMAN BEGINS.

While Selena is the person he can't be because she's not afraid to go too far and do what NEEDs to be done, Talia is the mirror image of that in a different way. Ruthless and sometimes Cruel he's stuck between two people a past and a future and he has to make a choice to which one he feels he can trust

I'm not sure what exactly you are saying.

 

[Mr. Earle]

"Hey guys, we already have Ras Al Ghul as the villain, Scarecrow is not needed. HERP DERP you guys!"

Nolan can do whatever he wants and there is no way that you can predict what he'll do. If he ends up using Talia you'll all be "BUT I WAS PRO TALIA ALL ALONG! I WAS TELLING YOU GUYS AND YOU WOULDNT BELIEVE ME!!!"

 

[Godzilla2014]

"Hey guys, we already have Ras Al Ghul as the villain, Scarecrow is not needed. HERP DERP you guys!"

Nolan can do whatever he wants and there is no way that you can predict what he'll do. If he ends up using Talia you'll all be "BUT I WAS PRO TALIA ALL ALONG! I WAS TELLING YOU GUYS AND YOU WOULDNT BELIEVE ME!!!"

I will state this now: If he uses Talia and it works, fine, but I am having trouble trying to figure out how she could fit into this story. I don't really understand the clamor for Talia to be in THE DARK KNIGHT RISES. If Talia is in the movie and is done well, I'll eat crow.

 

[The_Raganork]

We don't need Talia for that. We already saw Bruce implementing of the lessons that Henri Ducard/Ra's al Ghul taught him in both BATMAN BEGINS & THE DARK KNIGHT without needing Talia or Ra's al Ghul (in the latter). We already explored Bruce Wayne's past in BATMAN BEGINS.



I'm not sure what exactly you are saying.

Ok you're missing my first point

#1 I don't mean to actually go back in time to show us but, to have a physical representation of his past and the teachings of the LoS in the film not only will be a good structured point for the audience but, gives Bruce face to face confrontation with his teachings and how he's changed from Batman Begins. Not only that not being Ra's shows Bruce there's more out there, like him maybe even better. He's vulnerable, the LoS didn't care about the repercussions of their actions, that's what made them powerful. In BB Bats didn't care that much and in tDK his faced directly the repercussions of Batman;

Remember what Gordon said about escalation in BB and how Bats dismissed it? Well TDK is a product of that dismissal. Not only that his actions lead to the death of Rachel, the fall of Harvey and Joker's grip on the city, had he retained the LoS mindset, this wouldn't have affected him but, it has.

Talia will be a window into that world of losing Bruce and becoming only Batman, a window that he can stop being hurt and stop being the blame if he lets go that humanity in him.

Selena is the opposite, she fights for her humanity, revenge isn't beyond her and she's not concerned with who she has to hurt in order to do the greater good. She is Batman without limits; while Talia is Batman without a conscience.

That parallel is extremely important to how Bruce will react to his wanted status. He was strong enough to take the blame for Harvey but, is he strong enough to no longer be a crutch for Gotham and show the city that he can go "that" distance for the greater good? even if it means his total destruction?

Can Bruce Wayne learn to exist without the shadow of Batman hovering over him; as Rachel wished?

Edit: this is all ASSUMING Talia is in the film; I don't think this WILL happen but, if she was in it, I think this could be a possibility

 

[Godzilla2014]

Ok you're missing my first point

#1 I don't mean to actually go back in time to show us but, to have a physical representation of his past and the teachings of the LoS in the film not only will be a good structured point for the audience but, gives Bruce face to face confrontation with his teachings and how he's changed from Batman Begins. Not only that not being Ra's shows Bruce there's more out there, like him maybe even better. He's vulnerable, the LoS didn't care about the repercussions of their actions, that's what made them powerful. In BB Bats didn't care that much and in tDK his faced directly the repercussions of Batman;

Remember what Gordon said about escalation in BB and how Bats dismissed it? Well TDK is a product of that dismissal. Not only that his actions lead to the death of Rachel, the fall of Harvey and Joker's grip on the city, had he retained the LoS mindset, this wouldn't have affected him but, it has.

Talia will be a window into that world of losing Bruce and becoming only Batman, a window that he can stop being hurt and stop being the blame if he lets go that humanity in him.

Selena is the opposite, she fights for her humanity, revenge isn't beyond her and she's not concerned with who she has to hurt in order to do the greater good. She is Batman without limits; while Talia is Batman without a conscience.

That parallel is extremely important to how Bruce will react to his wanted status. He was strong enough to take the blame for Harvey but, is he strong enough to no longer be a crutch for Gotham and show the city that he can go "that" distance for the greater good? even if it means his total destruction?

Can Bruce Wayne learn to exist without the shadow of Batman hovering over him; as Rachel wished?

Edit: this is all ASSUMING Talia is in the film; I don't think this WILL happen but, if she was in it, I think this could be a possibility

That makes sense, but what would Talia actually do in the film? Try to destroy Gotham again? That's the kind of thing that gets repetitive when used a lot in close succession. Another good example is Mary Jane becoming a damsel-in-distress that had to be rescued at the climax of each of Sam Raimi's SPIDER-MAN movies.

 

[jmc]

She's Miranda Tate.

 

[Godzilla2014]

She's Miranda Tate.

That's what I think. No Talia for TDKR.

 

[TheBatman072]

She's Miranda Tate.

Not uh. She's Talia.

Because I know Nolan. And I don't mean I know how he thinks, I mean I know him personally.

He told me that she's Talia, and that JGL is actually Alberto Falcone who infiltrated the GCPD to get revenge on Gordon and Batman.

But here's the twist WITHIN the twist.

Miranda is Tate which is the cover for Talia who is the daughter of Ra's Al Ghul, and whose body is now the shell for the SPIRIT of the dead Ra's Al Ghul!!!!1

Just like in Batman Beyond! That's right! Nolan is giving us Bruce in his final days as Batman, and half way into the movie he'll introduce Terry!!

You heard it here first!

EDIT: Also, you may be wondering how Bane and Catwoman fit into all this, they don't. Those characters are just covers. Announced to lead you off the trail.

That sneaky, sneaky Nolan.

 

[jmc]

I really think it's just something people need to accept - she's Miranda Tate, she's no more likely to turn out to be someone else than JGL's character is. All the tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists need to stop and think, if Nolan is going to do a plot twist, it's going to be one that no-one, fans and general audiences, won't see coming.

 

[the Wankstar]

Tate is Tate

 

[Mako]

I really think it's just something people need to accept - she's Miranda Tate, she's no more likely to turn out to be someone else than JGL's character is. All the tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists need to stop and think, if Nolan is going to do a plot twist, it's going to be one that no-one, fans and general audiences, won't see coming.

JGL is Talia? [BLACKOUT]t:[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Mako]

Tate is Tate

Haha That's the best one I've seen

 

[TheBatman072]

Haha That's the best one I've seen

Just for funsies.

 

[MaceB]

Not uh. She's Talia.

Because I know Nolan. And I don't mean I know how he thinks, I mean I know him personally.

He told me that she's Talia, and that JGL is actually Alberto Falcone who infiltrated the GCPD to get revenge on Gordon and Batman.

But here's the twist WITHIN the twist.

Miranda is Tate which is the cover for Talia who is the daughter of Ra's Al Ghul, and whose body is now the shell for the SPIRIT of the dead Ra's Al Ghul!!!!1

Just like in Batman Beyond! That's right! Nolan is giving us Bruce in his final days as Batman, and half way into the movie he'll introduce Terry!!

You heard it here first!

EDIT: Also, you may be wondering how Bane and Catwoman fit into all this, they don't. Those characters are just covers. Announced to lead you off the trail.

That sneaky, sneaky Nolan.

Hardy har har. You know, some people see Talia within the realm of possibility... and some have presented fairly logical ways in which this could perhaps happen. Very few to my knowledge have argued that it's a certainty.
Could you try to give a little more respect to other people's speculation on this issue? It's not like they're saying Batman will learn how to fly or something. Mocking them is a little lame in my opinion.

 

[Mako]

Just for funsies.

Geordi was never the same without his visor t:

 

[papie]

You know, the only reason why I am not bashing the hell out of that Talia idea is because Tate looks like the French word for Head.

But since Tate is actually an existing last name, I don't believe it either.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Why are people so hellbent on convincing others that Cotillard wont be Talia? Why cant you let others believe what they want?

Jesus ****ing Christ, if there is nothing to discuss, just drop the discussion, dont go around in circles about whether she is Talia or not. She may be, or she may be not.

I mean, the same could have happened for Neeson and Ras. "No, i'm playing Ducard. My role is very small, so its very convenient for me." Cotillard might not be Talia, but if she were wouldnt she want to throw us off without resorting to lies?