Mass Effect 3 - - - Part 12

[Matt]

You know, a Harbinger boss fight would've been all kinds of awesome. Imagine Shepard and co defeating Harbinger, there is a feeling of hope, maybe they can win....then five reapers hover down and unleash beams, scene plays out like normal. It would be a great way to emotionally lift, then devestate the player, which would add to this ending.

 

[Balthus Dire]

What, you wanted a boss fight with the main antagonist from the Reaper threat? Absurd!! You must be some crazy fanboy.

 

[eternalinferno]

You know, a Harbinger boss fight would've been all kinds of awesome. Imagine Shepard and co defeating Harbinger, there is a feeling of hope, maybe they can win....then five reapers hover down and unleash beams, scene plays out like normal. It would be a great way to emotionally lift, then devestate the player, which would add to this ending.

Yea that would have been awesome, tho I'm curious as to how the boss fight would actually play out

 

[Matt]

They certainly would have had to be creative, but I refuse to believe it could not have been done.

Anyway, I just had a conversation with Javik about Legion. I think that I missed it on my first playthrough. It is interesting to note that Javik's views are almost identical as the Reapers whom he hates so much.

 

[Balthus Dire]

They could've just made that boss battle on Thessia or whatever planet it was be Harbinger instead of just some random Reaper.

 

[eternalinferno]

It was on the quarian home world, and I suppose they could have done that but the way Matt described it would've had much more impact

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Aaaanywho,

I was doing some more reading up on that Leviathan DLC yesterday, having only just sort of hearing about it previously. Sounds like interesting stuff, definitely piqued my interest, I'll probably bring Javik along for that since he tends to have interesting stuff to say when it comes to the Reapers/ancient things and the lines from him that I caught in the leak already sound pretty good.

There was also a tweet from one of the composers:

https://***********/sonicmayhem/status/218833626102640641

Love working on ambient pieces...this piece really reminds me of..John Carpenter

So I imagine they're going for some kind of a horror-esque tone.

 

[eternalinferno]

I loved javik, even though I don't agree with his views I found him to be extremely fascinating, and a great squad mate in battle

 

[Matt]

Is the Leviathan DLC official?

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

It sounds like it:

https://***********/BioEvilChris/status/219573863359590400

Priestly: As far as I know. Last I heard they're working on the story and script.

-

I'm sure there will be a more formal announcement regarding that at SDCC.

 

[eternalinferno]

I'm still expecting a take back omega dlc down the line as well

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

I'm expecting Leviathan, Omega and possibly a new squadmate to fill up the spot in Life Support.

 

[Matt]

What do you mean to fill up the spot in Life Support?

My thoughts on DLC:

- I want a Vorcha squadmate.

- I doubt I'd download Take Back Omega. Aside from not caring for Aria, I really don't want to pay 10 bucks to go shoot my way through a bunch of Cerberus schmucks and ultimately fight a heavy mech or a few Phantoms. The premise alone just doesn't bring enough to the table to make it a DLC worth buying, IMO.

- Leviathan of the Dis on the other hand....it seems like based on the dialogue found in the E.E. files, could be substantial. It seems like it revolves around [blackout]a Reaper who has betrayed the other Reapers and that it is possible to get this Reaper to join the allied forces. In addition, the dialogue seems to indicate that we may learn more about the creators of the Reapers and their origin/motives[/blackout]....that would be worth it and could help making the ending more stomachable.

- Speaking of the ending, does anyone else think that DLC could lead to more revisions to the ending? USF, we've argued quite a bit about the likelihood of the allied forces being able to defeat the Reapers, but if what the hacked dialogue reveals about Leviathan proves to be true, Shepard could [blackout]have a Reaper on his side[/blackout]. That changes the entire structure of the war, gives the Allies immeasurably useful intel and information, plus fire power unlike anything else. Even taking back Omega, millions if not billions of Vorcha (who apparently breed like vermin) could join the war effort. The entire Terminus system would be at the Allies' disposal. The DLC, it could change the entire structure of the war if recruited. Perhaps a Refuse/Win ending could be added provided the player gets an insanely high military rating and completes all of the game changing DLC. How would you feel about that?

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

What do you mean to fill up the spot in Life Support?

Thane's old spot.

- I want a Vorcha squadmate.

RARRRGHHHH! I HAVE DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY!

- I doubt I'd download Take Back Omega. Aside from not caring for Aria, I really don't want to pay 10 bucks to go shoot my way through a bunch of Cerberus schmucks and ultimately fight a heavy mech or a few Phantoms. The premise alone just doesn't bring enough to the table to make it a DLC worth buying, IMO.

I think they'll be more to it than just placing Aria on her throne, kind of like how Overlord* ended up with Shepard saving the galaxy from a technological apocalypse. But obviously we'll have to wait and see on that.

I also wouldn't be surprised if it introduced those Adjutant creations that were Invasion.

- Leviathan of the Dis on the other hand....it seems like based on the dialogue found in the E.E. files, could be substantial. It seems like it revolves around [blackout]a Reaper who has betrayed the other Reapers and that it is possible to get this Reaper to join the allied forces. In addition, the dialogue seems to indicate that we may learn more about the creators of the Reapers and their origin/motives[/blackout]....that would be worth it and could help making the ending more stomachable.

- Speaking of the ending, does anyone else think that DLC could lead to more revisions to the ending? USF, we've argued quite a bit about the likelihood of the allied forces being able to defeat the Reapers, but if what the hacked dialogue reveals about Leviathan proves to be true, Shepard could [blackout]have a Reaper on his side[/blackout]. That changes the entire structure of the war, gives the Allies immeasurably useful intel and information, plus fire power unlike anything else. Even taking back Omega, millions if not billions of Vorcha (who apparently breed like vermin) could join the war effort. The entire Terminus system would be at the Allies' disposal. The DLC, it could change the entire structure of the war if recruited. Perhaps a Refuse/Win ending could be added provided the player gets an insanely high military rating and completes all of the game changing DLC. How would you feel about that?

I will say this: I wouldn't mind a Refuse/Win through a combined force of super weapons like the Leviathan - if the choice to get those weapons were Renegade decisions and carried with them serious cost. That would be a good trade-off to getting Refuse/Win.

 

[Matt]

Thane's old spot.





RARRRGHHHH! I HAVE DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY!

That's right, the life support room is empty.

I think they'll be more to it than just placing Aria on her throne, kind of like how Overlord* ended up with Shepard saving the galaxy from a technological apocalypse. But obviously we'll have to wait and see on that.

I also wouldn't be surprised if it introduced those Adjutant creations that were Invasion.

The way I'd download it, is if it allowed Omega to be a hubworld after reclaiming it. ME3 is sorely lacking in hubs.

I will say this: I wouldn't mind a Refuse/Win through a combined force of super weapons like the Leviathan - if the choice to get those weapons were Renegade decisions and carried with them serious cost. That would be a good trade-off to getting Refuse/Win.

I'd imagine to get a [blackout]Reaper[/blackout] on your side, even a rogue one, Shepard will have to do some pretty questionable things. It would be really cool if you had to sacrifice a squadmate to complete Leviathan in the most satisfactory manner (bye bye, Mr. Vega ). But yeah, if Leviathan does end in the manner that the hacked dialogue implies ([blackout]Shepard getting a Reaper on his side[/blackout]) then the entire war changes, the entire narrative changes. The ending would have to reflect that. Also, it raises another question. If Leviathan could go rogue, how assured is Shepard's control in the control ending? What is to keep Harbinger and some of the others from going rogue and deciding to start war again? It certainly raises a questionable dilemma about the control ending. I really hope that these are things that BW is going to address. If they just add the DLC and the reward for completion is getting a [blackout]Reaper war asset[/blackout], then it will be a major facepalm moment.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

In the Control ending, the Crucible transmits the the Shepard AI into all of the Reapers, so there are basically no Harbinger/Sovereigns any more.

There are a few other hidden weapons that could be lying around out there: the beings of light on Klencory comes to mind.

 

[Matt]

But if they are capable of rebelling against the Starchild AI, what is to keep it from happening again?

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

What I mean is that they don't exist anymore, the Crucible makes it so that Shepard doesn't just replace the Catalyst AI but replaces all Reaper AI's, they are all Shepard is what I am getting at, one will and such.

It would be like your arm rebelling against your leg.

 

[Matt]

I see. I'll still be pissed if all I get for completing Levithan is an asset

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

I don't think the Leviathan is enough to win the war on its own, but I could see it happening if, just using examples here: you had the beings of light and an Adjutant army alongside it.

Just spitballing here.

 

[Matt]

Keep in mind, LID apparently also deals with the creators of the Reapers. That kind of intel could give the allies all kinds edges. They need to reflect all of this stuff in the endings if these are the routes BW goes.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Possibly, there was already a new Catalyst line in the leak - I just don't think its going to cause a Refuse/Win ending... at least not yet.

 

[Matt]

Also, keep in mind, if all of the DLC leads to a new ending (a reject/win type of deal), BW/EA would then be able to market Mass Effect 3: The Complete Edition with "all new endings."

 

[Speedball]

Yea that would have been awesome, tho I'm curious as to how the boss fight would actually play out

They had the Normandy swoop, land and pick up people, which means the Normandy could have done SOMETHING to attack.

They could have done something with the Normandy's guns hitting Harbinger in his eye as it blasting the ground, Shepard looking up and smiling, then his face turns to dread as five reapers land and push aside Harbingers body like it was no big deal to them.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Not really to get into the larger Harbinger debate but just from a position of lore:

There's absolutely nothing the Normandy could do to even begin hurting a Sovereign class Reaper. In ME2 when Shepard is on the derelict Reaper and asks if the Normandy can punch them a hole to get out through EDI points out that their weapons are totally useless against its shields.

Harbinger also doesn't have the eye that the smaller Destroyer class reapers do.

Additionally, even aside from that the kind of firepower (multiple cruisers/dreadnaughts) needed to actually down Harbinger would have totally obliterated the surrounding area including Hammer and the beam.

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The guy who filed the FTC complaint weighs in:

http://www.shacknews.com/article/74597/ftc-complainant-calls-mass-effect-3-ending-complete#